Could Muhammad of been a prophet?

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IgnatianPhilo said:
Well I have your word against some of the more embarrassing islamic hadiths. For instance, why was it unselfish to marry Aisha a young girl? Or will you tell me that didn’t happen? Or what about his son’s wife because he desired her? I’ll admit, I’m no expert, but I know some things, nor am I willing to accept a mere man as Muhammad being purely unselfish, no mere man is.
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It’s a culture thing. Would I approve of a 29 year old marrying a 14 years, something that was acceptable in the United States just 100 years ago? No.

If I reject Islam, simply based on this culture thing, than I equally have to reject Christianity and Judaism. And all religions for that matter. I haven’t found a single religion that doesn’t have something in it that I have a problem with it, from a culture perspective.
 
TheSufi said:
My inability to present things in the most eloquent of ways is not a reflection of the teachings of Islam, but rather my imperfection.
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And I would also add that your misinterpretation of Numbers is also due to your imperfection. That’s why I only ask for evidence of your claim instead of what you think the Hebrew says.

Anyways, was Muhammad a man that would lie? I’m curious as to what your answer to this is.
 
TheSufi said:
It’s a culture thing. Would I approve of a 29 year old marrying a 14 years, something that was acceptable in the United States just 100 years ago? No.

If I reject Islam, simply based on this culture thing, than I equally have to reject Christianity and Judaism. And all religions for that matter. I haven’t found a single religion that doesn’t have something in it that I have a problem with it, from a culture perspective.
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What cultural disagreement do you have with what is written in the New Testament? Just curious.
 
Also, the argument isn’t that marrying Aisha as a six year old was wrong, he’s asking how that would be unselfish.
 
dronald said:
And I would also add that your misinterpretation of Numbers is also due to your imperfection. That’s why I only ask for evidence of your claim instead of what you think the Hebrew says.

Anyways, was Muhammad a man that would lie? I’m curious as to what your answer to this is.
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You are no one to be followed either, with all your imperfections and misinterpretations.
 
Comparing the New Testament and the Quran is like comparing apples and oranges.
The Quran was revealed to Muhammad over a period spanning about two decades during which events in Muhammad’s life colored the revelations. These revelations were supposed to have been recorded as they happened. There is no attempt at it being a cohesive piece of writing nor a historical account. It also was never selectively edited to convey a consistent message. It is a record of the various epiphanies experienced by Muhammad.

On the other hand, the Gospels, Acts, Epistles, etc. were contributed by various authors based on recollections mostly after the quarrels between Jews and Romans escalated. After several centuries of writings were gathered, edited, and selected for inclusion in the Bible of the Catholic Church, we finally have a scripture that was tailored to support the message that the Church wanted to teach. Why weren’t the writings of the St. Thomas, Arius, the Gnostics, etc. included. They certainly were relevant. But conveying a certain dogma required careful selection of literature to support it.
 
TheSufi said:
It’s a culture thing. Would I approve of a 29 year old marrying a 14 years, something that was acceptable in the United States just 100 years ago? No.

If I reject Islam, simply based on this culture thing, than I equally have to reject Christianity and Judaism. And all religions for that matter. I haven’t found a single religion that doesn’t have something in it that I have a problem with it, from a culture perspective.
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How does saying it was a cultural thing mean Muhammad was unselfish? No doubt it was a cultural thing to marry girls of that age but why did Muhammad marry her? Was it purely out his sense of good will and charity, or his desire? Was it purely out of his good will and charity that his son divorced his wife so that she could marry the prophet?

My only point is to suggest that muhammad was a man who was selfish, like the rest of us, even if he was a prophet.
 
TheSufi said:
You are no one to be followed either, with all your imperfections and misinterpretations.
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Yes, but I study history and language and then present my evidence for my claims. History shows no evidence of this passage ever being argued by Jews to Christians. Also, if we look at the Hebrew Bible (not the Old Testament, rather the actual books that Jews hold and Christians use now as well) we’ll see the translations they use do not point to the meaning you say it does.

And that still doesn’t answer my question:

Was Muhammad a man that would lie?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
How does saying it was a cultural thing mean Muhammad was unselfish? No doubt it was a cultural thing to marry girls of that age but why did Muhammad marry her? Was it purely out his sense of good will and charity, or his desire? Was it purely out of his good will and charity that his son divorced his wife so that she could marry the prophet?

My only point is to suggest that muhammad was a man who was selfish, like the rest of us, even if he was a prophet.
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I guess the root of our difference is that majority of Muslims see all prophets as sinless.

I guess the difference between me and you, is you see Prophet Muhammad, as a man like yourself. While I see Prophet Muhammad as a genuine man of God, who is completely moved by God, who doesn’t do selfish acts, so questions like this do not pop into my head.

As a Muslim we see all Prophets as sinless.
 
There is no such thing as a perfect human. When Jesus got angry at the money changers and upset their tables, he was being an imperfect human. If he was perfect, he would have tried to persuade them without resorting to violence.
 
TheSufi said:
I guess the root of our difference is that majority of Muslims see all prophets as sinless.

I guess the difference between me and you, is you see Prophet Muhammad, as a man like yourself. While I see Prophet Muhammad as a genuine man of God, who is completely moved by God, who doesn’t do selfish acts, so questions like this do not pop into my head.

As a Muslim we see all Prophets as sinless.
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So Jesus and Muhammad were not men that would lie sin?
 
It is not even Theology to simply state “God is not man”. It is incomplete. Throwing context out the window by proof texting.

MJ
 
dronald said:
But they are not men that would lie, right?
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God is not a man. God is not even a perfect man. That is how I understand Numbers 23:19. ** [God is not an imperfect man [COLOR=“Blue”](Not a man that should lie), **nor a perfect man (nor the Son of man, that should repent).] That is the understanding I get from it when I read it.

You see God as a man, I do not.
 
TheSufi said:
God is not a man. God is not even a perfect man. That is how I understand Numbers 23:19. ** [God is not an imperfect man [COLOR=“Blue”](Not a man that should lie), **nor a perfect man (nor the Son of man, that should repent).]
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That is the understanding I get from it when I read it.

You see God as a man, I do not.

Where is the Islamic verse for this?

MJ
 
nmgauss said:
There is no such thing as a perfect human. When Jesus got angry at the money changers and upset their tables, he was being an imperfect human. If he was perfect, he would have tried to persuade them without resorting to violence.
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Oh he was imperfect? Since when was violence neccessarily imperfect? You know Christ will return as a king right in which to judge the entire world? That his enemies are his footstool?
 
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