Could Muhammad of been a prophet?

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IgnatianPhilo said:
Oh he was imperfect? Since when was violence neccessarily imperfect? You know Christ will return as a king right in which to judge the entire world? That his enemies are his footstool?
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What if he doesn’t return? What if earth is hit by a huge asteroid that destroys all humans? This is what destroyed the dinosaurs. It can happen again, and in fact has been predicted to happen again by astrophysicists. When? Nobody knows. But the probability of this happening in the next hundred years has been recalculated to be much higher than previously thought.
 
nmgauss said:
What if he doesn’t return? What if earth is hit by a huge asteroid that destroys all humans? This is what destroyed the dinosaurs. It can happen again, and in fact has been predicted to happen again by astrophysicists. When? Nobody knows. But the probability of this happening in the next hundred years has been recalculated to be much higher than previously thought.
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What does this have to do with Jesus being imperfect?
 
TheSufi said:
God is not a man. God is not even a perfect man. That is how I understand Numbers 23:19. ** [God is not an imperfect man [COLOR=“Blue”](Not a man that should lie), **nor a perfect man (nor the Son of man, that should repent).]
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That is the understanding I get from it when I read it.

You see God as a man, I do not.

So, even though this has never been a passage Jews used against Christians in all of history and even though you believe Muhammad was not a man that he should lie you can’t accept what the passage actually says?

If I asked any Muslim, “Is Muhammad a man that he should lie” the answer would be no. God would also never lie like a man, therefore you agree with Numbers and so do I.
 
TheSufi said:
Say He God is One. God is Self Sufficient. He begets not, nor is He begotten. There is nothing like unto Him. (112:1-4)
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This is not the context of that verse. Im asking the full Islamic referral directly to Numbers.

MJ
 
“The Kingdom of God is among us: do not seek strange things, do not seek novelties with this worldly curiosity. Let us allow the Spirit to lead us forward in that wisdom, which is like a soft breeze,". This is the Spirit of the Kingdom of God, of which Jesus speaks. So be it.” - Pope Francis

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would certainly strive that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now my kingdom is not from hence.

If Pope Francis can declare something that is opposite to what Jesus declared, how do we know which one is right?
 
Perhaps because your interpretation of Pope Francis’ words is what is in opposition to what Jesus declared.

Luke 17:20-21 (ESV)
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
 
nmgauss said:
“The Kingdom of God is among us: do not seek strange things, do not seek novelties with this worldly curiosity. Let us allow the Spirit to lead us forward in that wisdom, which is like a soft breeze,". This is the Spirit of the Kingdom of God, of which Jesus speaks. So be it.” - Pope Francis

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would certainly strive that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now my kingdom is not from hence.

If Pope Francis can declare something that is opposite to what Jesus declared, how do we know which one is right?
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Hey. That’s my sig. 😃

Pope Francis context was referring to Luke 17:20-21- Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you.”

Due to certain people today claiming that they are getting private messages everyday.

MJ
 
So Luke has Jesus saying one thing about the Kingdom of God, John has Jesus saying something different about the Kingdom of God, and the Pope choosing Luke over John.
 
nmgauss said:
So Luke has Jesus saying one thing about the Kingdom of God, John has Jesus saying something different about the Kingdom of God, and the Pope choosing Luke over John.
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And this shows that Mohammed is a prophet or not a prophet how?:confused:

MJ
 
nmgauss said:
So Luke has Jesus saying one thing about the Kingdom of God, John has Jesus saying something different about the Kingdom of God, and the Pope choosing Luke over John.
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Sure, if we follow your eisegesis of the texts. Fortunately, we are not obliged to do so.
 
TheSufi said:
I haven’t read everything from the early Christians…
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OF…course you haven’t. 🤷

I recommend the Epistle of Barnabas, which is not as authoritative as Scripture, but is
written by one of the disciple of the Apostles of Jesus. The letter dates back to around
70 – 131 CE, again written by Barnabas, disciple of the Apostles of Jesus: For the Scripture says concerning us, while He (Speaking of the Father)* speaks to
the Son**,** “Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness ; and let them
have dominion over the beasts of the earth**,and the fowls of heaven,** and the fishes
of the sea**.” And the Lord said,on beholding the fair creature man,****** “Increase**,** and
multiply, and replenish the earth****.” These things [were spoken] to the Son.*
Now this doesn’t address God ever becom-
ing a man, yes, but it definitely refutes the
Islamic idea that God is a Unitarian Being,
and it certainly bolsters Christianity.
 
nmgauss said:
What makes you believe that my quotes are from eisegesis (sic)? If I quote something verbatim it is not exegesis.
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mfeed.reference.com/d/search.html?q=Eisegesis
eis·e·ge·sis [ahy-si-jee-sis]
–noun, plural -ses -seez] .
an interpretation, esp. of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter’s own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.

Your prior post-“So Luke has Jesus saying one thing about the Kingdom of God, John has Jesus saying something different about the Kingdom of God, and the Pope choosing Luke over John.” is what I am commenting on. You’re implying a difference or contradiction, while others may not share your interpretation of those texts leading to such a conclusion (and indeed may be seen as reading something into the text). If you’re not implying such a thing, then forgive me. But then, you already moved the goal posts from your original argument (though I’m not sure what your point is), where you asked: "
If Pope Francis can declare something that is opposite to what Jesus declared, how do we know which one is right?"

What is the point you are making?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
By that you mean the quran and it alone? Such a task is impossible given the nature of the quran which assumes a context the reader is already familiar with, ie the life of Muhammad. How best do we explain the meaning of certain surahs? We look into the islamic traditions on how they were revealed and that enlightens the meaning, or else we can read any number of things into the text. Its like reading the new testament, not knowing about first century judaism, not knowing about the roman empire, the geography or anything like that, you know, exactly how bahai read the new testament.
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Consider this point - Christ is now not with us as He was 2000 years ago - Just imagine you are alive and have not heard of Christ and there is no one to tell you. But you have the Bible.

Are you saying that person could not get the required spiritual nourishment out of that book to know and Love God? This question is thus also applicable to Muhammad and the Koran.

All the wisdom we need is contained within the passages of these books, it is not Human Learning that will open them up, it will depend solely upon purity of heart, chastity of soul, and freedom of spirit.

It could be Human learning gives us the eyes that will not see!

Regards Tony
 
TheSufi said:
I guess the root of our difference is that majority of Muslims see all prophets as sinless.

I guess the difference between me and you, is you see Prophet Muhammad, as a man like yourself. While I see Prophet Muhammad as a genuine man of God, who is completely moved by God, who doesn’t do selfish acts, so questions like this do not pop into my head.

As a Muslim we see all Prophets as sinless.
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That my friend is a great view to have 👍

Regards Tony
 
nmgauss said:
What if he doesn’t return? What if earth is hit by a huge asteroid that destroys all humans? This is what destroyed the dinosaurs. It can happen again, and in fact has been predicted to happen again by astrophysicists. When? Nobody knows. But the probability of this happening in the next hundred years has been recalculated to be much higher than previously thought.
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What if He has already returned as promised and the result of the world we see today is that it is in the midst of its Judgment Day? Another view worth considering 😉

Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
Consider this point - Christ is now not with us as He was 2000 years ago - Just imagine you are alive and have not heard of Christ and there is no one to tell you. But you have the Bible.

Are you saying that person could not get the required spiritual nourishment out of that book to know and Love God? This question is thus also applicable to Muhammad and the Koran.

All the wisdom we need is contained within the passages of these books, it is not Human Learning that will open them up, it will depend solely upon purity of heart, chastity of soul, and freedom of spirit.

It could be Human learning gives us the eyes that will not see!

Regards Tony
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The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Fallible men guided by the Spirit of God, wrote it down and the Catholic Church put it together. Either you trust the Spirit and the Faith that laid it down. Stop creating new myths.

Mohammed hardly understood the Faith that gave the Bible.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. Fallible men guided by the Spirit of God, wrote it down and the Catholic Church put it together. Either you trust the Spirit and the Faith that laid it down. Stop creating new myths.

Mohammed hardly understood the Faith that gave the Bible.

MJ
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That my friend did not answer the question 😉

Is the Bible sufficient testimony by itself to Guide a person to God? 👍 I can safely say I believe the Bible can, but that is me I know it as the word of God.

Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
That my friend did not answer the question 😉

Is the Bible sufficient testimony by itself to Guide a person to God? 👍 I can safely say I believe the Bible can, but that is me I know it as the word of God.

Regards Tony
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The Bible is about the Word made Flesh. Whether we choose to pick and choose what we like or don’t like is left to us because God gave us Freewill to decide. But the Bible doesn’t say it is all you need to believe.

It’s a nice sentiment to say you believe in the Bible. 👍

But there is only one Truth and Mohammed mistook the wonderful riches already provided by The Church. Trust in the Church that gives you the opportunity to read the Bible.

MJ
 
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