Could Muhammad of been a prophet?

[swariffin]

I think if we stick to the EXACT words of the Holy Books we would see a lot more agreement.

Humans insert meaning into words which are not there. Often the incorrect meaning…

God gives brain for human to be used, my friend. That is the problem of having the law of God being reduced into a mere human written language, and supposed to be valid and enforceable forever and ever without any interpretation. Circumstances among the period such the law of God be made in a written language change. Tell you something, even the bible “hints” that the earth is flat. The RC had bad experience with respect to Galileo, for instance. So, taking a law of God reduced in just a written human language indeed a problem. The RC church had one, should Islam would follow such mistake?

 

[swariffin]

If different stories about GOD portray different beings, how can we possibly be comfortable with an eternal GOD that never changes especially when His deeds and portrayal changes from one revelation to the next.

Human is given the ability to learn, my friend. If God is a parent, and human are the children. Will God give the same kind of food for babies, toddlers, boys, young adults, and mature adults?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

If different stories about GOD portray different beings, how can we possibly be comfortable with an eternal GOD that never changes especially when His deeds and portrayal changes from one revelation to the next.

Easy, there are not different beings, there is only One Being who is Three Persons.
Consider what happened in Exodus, when the Israelites made a golden calf and so
forth. God told Moses that he was going to DESTROY them all and leave to whole
of the Promised Land to Moses alone. Moses pleaded with God not to do this, so
One Person of the One God decided then to take the wrath of God instead, show-
ing mercy to the Israelites.

What happened? The Father was angry, Someone had to pay, so the Son stepped
in and took the idolatrous Israelites’ place, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED!

The Church has been studying this phenomenon for centuries, I think
we have a good handle on the various confusing places in the Bible.

This is all thanks to the revelation of the Trinity which the
New Testament had brought to our attention. I don’t know
if to yours or not, but definitely to mine.

 

[Servant19]

God gives brain for human to be used, my friend. That is the problem of having the law of God being reduced into a mere human written language, and supposed to be valid and enforceable forever and ever without any interpretation. Circumstances among the period such the law of God be made in a written language change. Tell you something, even the bible “hints” that the earth is flat. The RC had bad experience with respect to Galileo, for instance. So, taking a law of God reduced in just a written human language indeed a problem. The RC church had one, should Islam would follow such mistake?

My friend, you are correct.

If however, you take A plus B and conclude 655, then there is a risk of believing in superstitions

 

[tonyfish58]

Indeed you are correct my friend. A religion does not always represent what the Prophet wishes. The way that Sallahudin converted the Hagia Sophia in Constantinopel to become a mosque, building the Al Aqsa mosque on top on the ancient ruin of the Jewish temple which was destroyed by the Roman, really says that you are correct. We the Christians also made such mistakes in the past too. So, you seem to me saying that religion is actually man-made, and I am in agreement with you. A pure muslim would deny such statement.

swariffin - You are correct a pure Muslim may very well deny such a statement. In the case of the Muslim Faith It could be said the true path should have been through Ali (Ali ibn Abi Talib), as his cousin and son-in-law, had been designated his successor.

Most thought Him to young so while the body of Muhammad was not yet Cold, His religion divided and lost it force from the very beginning as a few rallied or were recommended for the leadership

Thus try as they might it would be impossible to argue that Man ideas have not had influence on their Religion.

Much the same did previously happened in the Christian Faith. We know which Rock Christ said His Church should be built upon!

But both of these Religions have imparted influence on mankind, a lot good and some not so good. It is up to each of us to decide what that may be

Regards Tony

 

[daler]

If different stories about GOD portray different beings, how can we possibly be comfortable with an eternal GOD that never changes especially when His deeds and portrayal changes from one revelation to the next.

God has always progressively revealed to humanity in accordance with our capacity to receive His Word. Abraham built upon the foundation of Noah, and upon His teachings Moses elevated the Jewish people higher yet with the Commandments. In a later age, Jesus, may He be forever blessed, taught us to love each other and turn the other cheek, joining Jew and Gentile into one congregation.

Proponents of Muhammad say that he gathered the idolatrous warring tribes of Arabia into the one single “nation of Islam”, turning them from idol worship and burying their daughters alive, to a civilized society who learned to pray to the One God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.

Later, the Bab appeared in Elam (Persia), where Daniel had his vision and Jeremiah said "the Lord shall set His throne in Elam). He closed the Cycle of the Quran and prepared for the coming of Baha’u’llah, much like John the Baptist prepared the faithful for the coming of His Holiness, the Lord Christ.

From the standpoint of unity: “This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.” Baha’u’llah

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/PB/pb-63.html

Was Muhammad (PBUH) a Prophet? If so, He would have to fulfilled prophecy, which He did, for the references of Daniel and also Revelation pointed to the Cycle of the Quran, which lasted 1260 lunar years to 1844 when the Bab (the Qaim) appeared in Elam, as Jeremiah had predicted in chp 48:36 “the Lord shall set His throne in Elam”, or SW Persia.

. Much more to this, if interested, proving the Prophethood of Muhammad and answering the thread’s primary topic with credible proofs form both the Old and New Testaments…

.Peace be upon all who turn to God in humility seeking the truth of His Holy Books.
Daler

.

 

[MartinJordan]

To get back to the real topic of this thread, already in post 8, this thread should have been settled so that we don’t get so muddled mentally.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

III. CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word.** In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one.** St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. **Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.**
27

There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

MJ

 

[tonyfish58]

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.MJ

I Like this one I can see the way open for all True Faith

It Could be that Christ did return in all the promised Glory that the Church has still not yet recognized, Muhammad being one of those.

It may be that, yes, the Christian Faith will have to come to terms with this possibility

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

I Like this one I can see the way open for all True Faith

It Could be that Christ did return in all the promised Glory that the Church has still not yet recognized, Muhammad being one of those.

It may be that, yes, the Christian Faith will have to come to terms with this possibility

Regards Tony

I just said muddled Did you even bother to read passed point 66? :tsktsk:

MJ

 

[Shia_Muslim]

I don’t get why this thread is 43 pages long. You can believe in the Trinity and in the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH&HF) at the same time. At max you can credit the prophet for destroying idolatry in Arabia, but if you want to accept his Prophethood, you need to reject the Trinity.

/thread

 

[Shia_Muslim]

Easy, there are not different beings, there is only One Being who is Three Persons.
Consider what happened in Exodus, when the Israelites made a golden calf and so
forth. God told Moses that he was going to DESTROY them all and leave to whole
of the Promised Land to Moses alone. Moses pleaded with God not to do this, so
One Person of the One God decided then to take the wrath of God instead, show-
ing mercy to the Israelites.

What happened? The Father was angry, Someone had to pay, so the Son stepped
in and took the idolatrous Israelites’ place, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED!

The Church has been studying this phenomenon for centuries, I think
we have a good handle on the various confusing places in the Bible.

This is all thanks to the revelation of the Trinity which the
New Testament had brought to our attention. I don’t know
if to yours or not, but definitely to mine.

Didn’t Moses ask for the calf-worshipers to be put to the sword?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Didn’t Moses ask for the calf-worshipers to be put to the sword?

Yes he did, he was angry of course. I think though it was a momentary pity for the Israelites
that Moses had up on the mount. Also, I think God said that he was going to destroy them
ALL, everyone down there. It’s also important to note that Moses was a sinner.

That is a good point you brought up,
maybe somebody should look into
that, but it doesn’t change that part
of the story where Moses pleads for
mercy on behalf of the Israelites.

 

[TheSufi]

Interesting parallels you draw between Smith and Mohammed. It explains a reference to Moslems I heard once that puzzled me: “sand Mormons”.

It is the worst parallels, mormons believe black people are cursed. It is racist, it cannot be a religion from God.

There is no sound spiritual tradition in the Mormon Religion, like you find in Islam, or Orthodox Christianity or Catholics, where there is a means to experience God directly.

The Quran is a literary masterpiece in the Arabic language, Arabic grammar is based on it. It is considered a linguistic miracles.

While the Book of Mormon, is not a piece of literature that one would study or even use as a standard in the English language, the language of Joseph Smith.

Incomparable.

Joseph Smith is very much like Ghulum Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya, and nothing like Prophet Muhammad.

 

[Sooner87]

It is the worst parallels, mormons believe black people are cursed. It is racist, it cannot be a religion from God.

There is no sound spiritual tradition in the Mormon Religion, like you find in Islam, or Orthodox Christianity or Catholics, where there is a means to experience God directly.

The Quran is a literary masterpiece in the Arabic language, Arabic grammar is based on it. It is considered a linguistic miracles.

While the Book of Mormon, is not a piece of literature that one would study or even use as a standard in the English language, the language of Joseph Smith.

Incomparable.

Joseph Smith is very much like Ghulum Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya, and nothing like Prophet Muhammad.

Dont tell all the black Mormons, they’ve really bought into the lie.

 

[dronald]

It is the worst parallels, mormons believe black people are cursed. It is racist, it cannot be a religion from God.

Like anybody that is lacking knowledge in a certain Religion, instead of taking your word for it I went straight to the source. Whether or not this was practised in the 19th century is up for debate, but it certainly isn’t practised any more. Ironic that you can make a statement like this given some of the most recent Islamic sermons, in a school no less. And it’s not like a reform is coming any time soon, seeing as these children are going to grow up.

 

[swariffin]

swariffin - You are correct a pure Muslim may very well deny such a statement. In the case of the Muslim Faith It could be said the true path should have been through Ali (Ali ibn Abi Talib), as his cousin and son-in-law, had been designated his successor.

Most thought Him to young so while the body of Muhammad was not yet Cold, His religion divided and lost it force from the very beginning as a few rallied or were recommended for the leadership

Thus try as they might it would be impossible to argue that Man ideas have not had influence on their Religion.

Much the same did previously happened in the Christian Faith. We know which Rock Christ said His Church should be built upon!

But both of these Religions have imparted influence on mankind, a lot good and some not so good. It is up to each of us to decide what that may be

Regards Tony

Indeed man-made religion altered, but the law of God did not, and will never be. The root of all religions is supposed to be God, and His respective qualities. The quality of God I learn from the RC is Faith, Hope and Love, and the greatest among all is Love. Anything contrary to that, cannot come from God. Could Muhammad (or anybody, or even Siddharta Gautama) a prophet? If he had undeniably those 3 qualities, why not?

 

[swariffin]

To get back to the real topic of this thread, already in post 8, this thread should have been settled so that we don’t get so muddled mentally.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

III. CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word.** In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one.** St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. **Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ **and by living with the desire for some other novelty.
27

There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

MJ

Surely because Jesus himself is the living Word of God, dynamic, evergreen and everlasting. (John 1:1). The word of God cannot be reduced to a book, no matter how thick or how many terabytes it takes.

 

[MartinJordan]

Surely because Jesus himself is the living Word of God, dynamic, evergreen and everlasting. (John 1:1). The word of God cannot be reduced to a book, no matter how thick or how many terabytes it takes.

Absolutely!

Infact the WORD of God is alive and active.



MJ

 

[daler]

I don’t get why this thread is 43 pages long. You can believe in the Trinity and in the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH&HF) at the same time. At max you can credit the prophet for destroying idolatry in Arabia, but if you want to accept his Prophethood, you need to reject the Trinity.

/thread

Shia, friend,
. I’m with you on this, that Muhammad did CPR on the idolatrous tribes of Arabia and got them praying to the One God 5 times per day!

. You know that Abraham’s father made idols, and Abraham destroyed them.
. Jesus entered the Temple and kicked over the money-changer’s tables.
. Muhammad (PBUH) returned to the Ka’aba and again destroyed the idols…

. The Trinity is a difficult issue for Christians to discuss with Muslims. They take offense that Jesus is sent by God with God’s Words, even as He said: “These are not My words, but Him that sent Me.”

. Somehow they think that His station is diminished by the verses of the Quran which describe Him as a Messenger from God, no matter how exalted that station is. My understanding is that Muhammad is not “demoting” Jesus, but rather affirming that God is above all creation, including His Messengers, Who deliver His Message according to His Will.

.

 

[TheSufi]

Like anybody that is lacking knowledge in a certain Religion, instead of taking your word for it I went straight to the source. Whether or not this was practised in the 19th century is up for debate, but it certainly isn’t practised any more. Ironic that you can make a statement like this given some of the most recent Islamic sermons, in a school no less. And it’s not like a reform is coming any time soon, seeing as these children are going to grow up.

Al Qaeda is not a standard, but a violent sect that emerged from another violent sect Wahabism, which was created by colonialism. A group Muslims who not only enjoy killing Non-Muslims, but make muslims into non-Muslims in order to kill them, they have their origins in Saudi Arabia, they are a protestant sect of Islam. They protested against the establish form of Islam, because traditional Orthodox Sunni Islam was not aggressive enough for them.

In others words, I don’t adhere to that group, nor do I believe they are the standard.

In fact, they probably consider me an infidel, a non Muslim, simply because I see Sufism as a part of Islam. They would kill me quicker than they would kill you. I am pretty anti-Wahabi (Al Qaeda). They have done alot of horrible things in the Muslim world.