Could Muhammad of been a prophet?

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Well, we can start with:

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

-Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
-Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
-Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
-Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

.

I believe the Gospels clearly show
that Jesus is the New Temple, the
third you speak.
ADMITTINGLY, only being a revert, I’m afraid I have no more, but highly suggest that
you bring that up in the Sacred Scripture Traditional Catholicism, or **Non-Catholic **
Religions forum, I have no doubt that there will be smart people there for you.

 

[Servant19]

That’s not the Gospel. When you believe in the True Jesus Christ, give your life over to him, sur-
render to the testimony which God has left through his prophets from Moses onward, THEN you
have God working through you, to will and to do of his good pleasure. Saint James does instruct
us to do good works to show our faith, BUT WHAT FAITH? We hear then from Saint Jude that we
are to contend for the Faith that was ONCE AND FOR ALL delivered to the saints. No more new
revelations, no more “progression” or “advancement,” just Jesus and the Church which he estab-
lished about 2,000 years ago.

Now you talk about Christianity being the most evil organization in history, what
about a religion that is leading people’s souls into Hell for eternal, where the fire
is never quenched, and the smoke rises for all eternity? Which is the evil organ-
ization now?

It is always good to try to make the world a better place, but
what good is it if I end up in Hell for following a false prophet,
nay, a false prophet who claims (or is claimed) to be the very
God the Father incarnate?
Nothing wrong with making the world better, but not by turn-
ing away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for God so loved
the world that he sent his only Begotten Son, that all who
believe on him may not perish, but may have eternal life.

What? You think the Second Coming is too long away to leave it in God’s hands?
We have to start forsaking the Cross in favor of a nine pointed star and preach u–
nity and peace and build a better-er society . . . not for me.

I believe Pope Francis today is beginning to encourage Christians to do more good
works, help the poor, and so forth, but since when do they come before God? That
is what your text here is expressing to me. You are really sounding more like one
of the Mormons, crying out about the poor people, how Christianity has failed, we
are the new light of the world, join us . . .

You see how silly that out cry is.

No, Judas, I don’t see it as silly at all.

What I do see is that there are billions of people who can see incredible suffering in the world, and have no idea on how to relieve the suffering once and for all.
You then have another group of people say:

“Hey look over here, we have a solution to it all, we need some help. At least come and see if it might work!!”

Yet the billions of people are saying “Nope, I don’t want to go to Hell”
Me, me, me, its all about me…I, I, I

THAT my friend, looks pretty silly

Its sad to see indeed…

No-one has ever said , “Forsake Jesus”…“you must not believe in Him now”

We just need help, and maybe, just maybe, you may realise that it works, and you realise that it IS God’s work, and God can STILL work THROUGH YOU to assist the oppressed and downtrodden, for He loves ALL His children…

.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Judas,
. You know very well that is not what he has said! Why are you leaping at such a thing? Please go back and read the context from which you are quoting. Then, if you will, offer some sort of an apology (or not) …
.

If he is going to put Christianity that close to the phrase “most evil or-
ganisation in history,” over the idea that faith alone in Jesus is what’s
important, despairing over a fallen world, I am going to be rather blunt.

 

[Servant19]

…and God so loved the world, that the followers of His only begotten Son were encouraged NOT try new things to alleviate suffering, tyranny and oppression?

How is that a sign of love?

Is God apathetic to the plight of dying, innocent children?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

No, Judas, I don’t see it as silly at all.

What I do see is that there are billions of people who can see incredible suffering in the world, and have no idea on how to relieve the suffering once and for all.
You then have another group of people say:
“Hey look over here, we have a solution to it all, we need some help. At least come and see if it might work!!”
Yet the billions of people are saying “Nope, I don’t want to go to Hell”
Me, me, me, its all about me…I, I, I
THAT my friend, looks pretty silly
Its sad to see indeed…
No-one has ever said , “Forsake Jesus”…“you must not believe in Him now”

People suffering, bad indeed. We can do great things,
but why resort to following a false prophet to make it
happen? Now on the “Nope, I don’t want to go to Hell”
comment you made, for what price should a man give
for his own soul?

No one said “Forsake Jesus”? I know, no one would
say something like that if you want to convert them.
To become a Baha’i is to abandon the Jesus Christ
of Christianity, whom the Bible describes, for whose
name’s sake so many Christians have died for.

We just need help, and maybe, just maybe, you may realise that it works, and you realise that it IS God’s work, and God can STILL work THROUGH YOU to assist the oppressed and downtrodden, for He loves ALL His children…

Helping is good, good works is good, but it all means
nothing in the end without the correct Faith. Second…

Who are God’s Children?
\What does the Gospel say? (Speaking of The Word)
He was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not. He came unto his own , and his own received him
not. But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. Who
are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father) , full of grace and truth. John beareth witness of him, and
crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me. And
of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

• (John1:10-17)
  No one is a child of God by default. We are to believe in him who died for our salvation,
  him, Jesus Christ, who is the Messiah, our very God, by whom all things were created,
  he who was, is, and shall forever be, the I AM, God himself. Of he to whom that one re-
  quirement does not apply, he is not a child of God, but a creation, nothing more.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

…and God so loved the world, that the followers of His only begotten Son were encouraged NOT try new things to alleviate suffering, tyranny and oppression?

How is that a sign of love?

Is God apathetic to the plight of dying, innocent children?

Servant do you think before you type?

 

[Servant19]

People suffering, bad indeed. We can do great things,
but why resort to following a false prophet to make it
happen? Now on the “Nope, I don’t want to go to Hell”
comment you made, for what price should a man give
for his own soul?

No one said “Forsake Jesus”? I know, no one would
say something like that if you want to convert them.
To become a Baha’i is to abandon the Jesus Christ
of Christianity, whom the Bible describes, for whose
name’s sake so many Christians have died for.

Helping is good, good works is good, but it all means
nothing in the end without the correct Faith. Second…

Who are God’s Children?
\What does the Gospel say? (Speaking of The Word)
He was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not. He came unto his own , and his own received him
not. But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. Who
are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father) , full of grace and truth. John beareth witness of him, and
crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me. And
of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

• (John1:10-17)
  No one is a child of God by default. We are to believe in him who died for our salvation,
  him, Jesus Christ, who is the Messiah, our very God, by whom all things were created,
  he who was, is, and shall forever be, the I AM, God himself. Of he to whom that one re-
  quirement does not apply, he is not a child of God, but a creation, nothing more.

No-one said that one should become a Baha’i. Its about “trying” to do the works of a Baha’i using Baha’i principles, and infusing them into society.

No-one said you need to stop the Eucharist, Confession etc etc, its the Baha’i principles that if adopted can and will end all man-made human suffering…

.

 

[tonyfish58]

Servant do you think before you type?

I think the emotions have let go of reason

Love is a funny thing, what we do for love at times may be a little off track

I know I have been Guilty of posting what I wish i had not at times.

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

…and God so loved the world, that the followers of His only begotten Son were encouraged NOT try new things to alleviate suffering, tyranny and oppression?

How is that a sign of love?

Is God apathetic to the plight of dying, innocent children?

My friend

Who can judge another love?

Who knows what their own end will be?

Just remember they are frustrated we do not Behold the Wonders of the Trinity, they pray for us. They want us to have the Love for Christ they Have!

Regards Tony

 

[TheSufi]

Well I suggest you come up for a meaning for his statement.

Whatever dude.

 

[daler]

If he is going to put Christianity that close to the phrase “most evil or-
ganisation in history,” over the idea that faith alone in Jesus is what’s
important, despairing over a fallen world, I am going to be rather blunt.

Now Judas, dear friend, the point he was trying to make, in context from the following, was:

. “I would rather ask that if you are asserting the above passage from John’s Gospel, that there is no need to do “anything” just sit down for all your life and let people die around you, as long as you “believe” Jesus is who He said He is… This would make Christianity the most evil organisation in history…” That was his quote, you know, that refers to the mindset of some people who think that to live the Christian life and be “saved” is only about acknowledging Jesus as the Christ. That some of those folks go to extremes to pretty much walk by the poor and fail to do that for which Jesus praised the “Good Samaritan”, and instead repeat the prideful attitude of “Well I’m saved. Let the save themselves…” I’m pretty sure you know what he meant, that “He who doeth the will of My father - is my brother and sister.”

. I’ve known far too many people with a proud nose in the air thinking: Well “I” am saved, and you’re not" to people who were actually “doing” what Jesus taught, not merely acknowledging His Lordship. This is all too common. All too common.

. Every Baha’i loves, Loves, LOVES the Lord Jesus Christ, whether they were a Jew or a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist… to be a Baha’i one must learn to love Jesus!!! “Merry Christmas, Baby Jesus! We love you Lord Jesus!! Praised be to God in Heaven for sending You to us. Praise the Lord!!”

. I pray that I may be worthy one day to meet Him in heaven and sit right down between Jesus and Baha’u’llah and accept a tiny bread crumb from either one of them. This would be eternal honor and glory for my soul forevermore. To be accepted as a follower, as a believer, and to be told “you are my disciple” from either of these Manifestations of God would be the most great glory of my soul for evermore.

. There seems to be some idea that the Reality of Jesus is not appreciated or believed, whereas in reality every Baha’i I know just grows and grows in love and humility before the blessed Lord Jesus. How much He suffered for us? Praised be His Holy name forever more!!!

.

 

[Servant19]

Servant do you think before you type?

My friend

Who can judge another love?

Who knows what their own end will be?

Just remember they are frustrated we do not Behold the Wonders of the Trinity, they pray for us. They want us to have the Love for Christ they Have!

Regards Tony

Ignatian and Tony. Hi

Let me recount a story.

You have a child. He is sick, you keep giving the child homeopathic remedies, and refuse to let him see a qualified and competent doctor.

The child gets sicker, you try an alternative mixture of homeopathics.

The child nears death, you give the best homeopathic remedies that you can possibly find.

Is this love?

The doctor down the road could have saved the poor kids life with a simple course of antibiotics.

Closing your eyes to all else but homeopathics is “silly” as Judas put it…

ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen.html
(this is a man who is not a Baha’i but is implementing very basic Baha’i principles)

(please notice the flat-out use of the word “FAILED” in the video)

Of course I’m emotional, I can see people dying in Australia due to what can only be called institutional racism, and all we care about is if you go to Hell or not?
I wonder whats happening in tyrannical countries…so called “free” Australia…

Put my soul in Hell for ever, and eternity and beyond for the sake of the futures of all these children

.

 

[daler]

Whatever dude.

My dear Sufi brother,
. How are you doing, friend? Are you well, and your family? Is everyone well and happy? I pray that your relatives and loved ones are doing good, and that their lives are stable. Just want to wish you happiness and contentedness in your life.

. Also, whenever I see your handle post “The Sufi”, I look forward to what you have to read. It is a wonderful thing that CAF has done to create these little forum coffeeshop threads and allow this diverse bunch of humanity in to meet and talk to each other. I love the diversity in the human family and learn much from the peoples following their many different paths of Faith. I try to learn from everyone and enrich my life and soul.

. Thank you always for your kind remarks and good thoughts and posts. You speak with much intelligence, which shows that you think deeply and are considerate of the views and beliefs of others, no matter how they may vary a bit from your own. Most considerate of you. Most kind.

. I mean only and always to greet you, going and coming, with that loving style of greeting with which you are so generously accustomed. Good folks, all of you.

. Many blessings to you from me,
Daler

 

[daler]

ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen.html
(this is a man who is not a Baha’i but is implementing very basic Baha’i principles)]

.

Excellent TED talk. Excellent!!

thank you

 

[tonyfish58]

Ignatian and Tony. Hi

Let me recount a story.

You have a child. He is sick, you keep giving the child homeopathic remedies, and refuse to let him see a qualified and competent doctor.

The child gets sicker, you try an alternative mixture of homeopathics.

The child nears death, you give the best homeopathic remedies that you can possibly find.

Is this love?

The doctor down the road could have saved the poor kids life with a simple course of antibiotics.

Closing your eyes to all else but homeopathics is “silly” as Judas put it…

ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen.html
(this is a man who is not a Baha’i but is implementing very basic Baha’i principles)

(please notice the flat-out use of the word “FAILED” in the video)

Of course I’m emotional, I can see people dying in Australia due to what can only be called institutional racism, and all we care about is if you go to Hell or not?
I wonder whats happening in tyrannical countries…so called “free” Australia…

Put my soul in Hell for ever, and eternity and beyond for the sake of the futures of all these children .

Servant - I know why you are passionate

But who’s Children are we Who is looking after us all!

The best medicine is the medicine that is taken by those who wish to partake of it.

These are not easy times the Judgement days, many will be the people rejecting the Word of God

The Koran has Guidance re this Day

“They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: ‘The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.’ They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: ‘The knowledge thereof is with God (alone), but most men know not.’ (The Noble Quran, 7:187)”

“Verily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour. (The Noble Quran, 20:15)”

“They say: ‘When will this promise come to pass, if ye are telling the truth?’ If only the Unbelievers knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the fire from their faces, nor yet from their backs, and (when) no help can reach them! Nay, it may come to them all of a sudden and confound them: no power will they have then to avert it, nor will they (then) get respite. (The Noble Quran, 21:38-40)”

“Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with God (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with God is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things). (The Noble Quran, 31:34)”

“Men ask thee concerning the Hour: Say, ‘The knowledge thereof is with God (alone)’: and what will make thee understand?- perchance the Hour is nigh! (The Noble Quran, 33:63)”

“The Unbelievers say, ‘Never to us will come the Hour’: Say, ‘Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you;- by Him Who knows the unseen,- from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the Record Perspicuous:’ (The Noble Quran, 34:3)”

“And blessed is He to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all between them: with Him is the Knowledge of the Hour (of Judgment): and to Him shall ye be brought back. (The Noble Quran, 43:85)”

“Say: 'I know not whether the (Punishment) which ye are promised is near, or whether my Lord will appoint for it a distant term. (The Noble Quran, 72:25)”

Keep well keep happy keep the chin up

ted.com/talks/ernesto_sir…nd_listen.html

And as Dale said “Excellent TED talk. Excellent”!!

Regards Tony

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

No-one said that one should become a Baha’i. Its about “trying” to do the works of a Baha’i using Baha’i principles, and infusing them into society.

No-one said you need to stop the Eucharist, Confession etc etc, its the Baha’i principles that if adopted can and will end all man-made human suffering…

.

uh … Okay, no. We appear to be moving away from the original point, about
5-6 responses ago we weren’t talking about trying to heal the world. I cannot
help but feel this misdirection was intentional, beginning with you bringing up
Matthew 16:27. “IF” I am wrong, and it wasn’t by design, I apologize, but only
“IF” such is the case.

Now with that let’s get back to original thread: Muhammad is
a false prophet and the same goes Baha’u’llah and the Bab.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their
fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth
forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut
down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the king—
dom of heaven : but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day** :** *Lord,
Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name,and done many miracles in thy name? *And then will I profess unto them, I nev-
er knew you: Depart from me, you that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man
that built his house upon a rock,

• (Matthew 15-24)

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Now Judas, dear friend, the point he was trying to make, in context from the following, was:

. “I would rather ask that if you are asserting the above passage from John’s Gospel, that there is no need to do “anything” just sit down for all your life and let people die around you, as long as you “believe” Jesus is who He said He is… This would make Christianity the most evil organisation in history…” That was his quote, you know, that refers to the mindset of some people who think that to live the Christian life and be “saved” is only about acknowledging Jesus as the Christ. That some of those folks go to extremes to pretty much walk by the poor and fail to do that for which Jesus praised the “Good Samaritan”, and instead repeat the prideful attitude of “Well I’m saved. Let the save themselves…” I’m pretty sure you know what he meant, that “He who doeth the will of My father - is my brother and sister.”

Admittingly, there are Christians of that bad sort you mentioned, self-centered and so
forth, but he who is reborn and filled with the Holy Spirit will actually and simply have
that very compulsion to do good, as it is the Father working through the faithful.

. I’ve known far too many people with a proud nose in the air thinking: Well “I” am saved, and you’re not" to people who were actually “doing” what Jesus taught, not merely acknowledging His Lordship. This is all too common. All too common.

. Every Baha’i loves, Loves, LOVES the Lord Jesus Christ, whether they were a Jew or a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist… to be a Baha’i one must learn to love Jesus!!! “Merry Christmas, Baby Jesus! We love you Lord Jesus!! Praised be to God in Heaven for sending You to us. Praise the Lord!!”
. I pray that I may be worthy one day to meet Him in heaven and sit right down between Jesus and Baha’u’llah and accept a tiny bread crumb from either one of them. This would be eternal honor and glory for my soul forevermore. To be accepted as a follower, as a believer, and to be told “you are my disciple” from either of these Manifestations of God would be the most great glory of my soul for evermore.
. There seems to be some idea that the Reality of Jesus is not appreciated or believed, whereas in reality every Baha’i I know just grows and grows in love and humility before the blessed Lord Jesus. How much He suffered for us? Praised be His Holy name forever more!!!

According to the Bible, we can’t have that, both Baha’u’llah and Jesus.

 

[Servant19]

uh … Okay, no. We appear to be moving away from the original point, about
5-6 responses ago we weren’t talking about trying to heal the world. I cannot
help but feel this misdirection was intentional, beginning with you bringing up
Matthew 16:27. “IF” I am wrong, and it wasn’t by design, I apologize, but only
“IF” such is the case.

Now with that let’s get back to original thread: Muhammad is
a false prophet and the same goes Baha’u’llah and the Bab.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their
fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth
forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut
down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the king—
dom of heaven : but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day** :** *Lord,
Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name,and done many miracles in thy name? *And then will I profess unto them, I nev-
er knew you: Depart from me, you that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man
that built his house upon a rock,

• (Matthew 15-24)

I agree, let’s get back in topic…

Given that the authenticity to Muhammad’s life is patchy at best, I would ask you what evidence do you have that the Bab and Baha’u’llah are “ravening wolves”?

How did Baha’u’llah and the Bab not produced “goodly fruits”?
Thanks for your consideration

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I agree, let’s get back in topic…

Given that the authenticity to Muhammad’s life is patchy at best, I would ask you what evidence do you have that the Bab and Baha’u’llah are “ravening wolves”?

How did Baha’u’llah and the Bab not produced “goodly fruits”?
Thanks for your consideration

First, I do hope you take the metaphor as metaphor. Now how the Bab and Baha’u’llah
are inwardly ravening wolves, well their teachings are not in accord with the Bible. Have
you ever considered that the fruits that look and maybe even taste so good may perhaps
be poison berries? In light of the REAL Scriptures, the Bible, Old/New Testament, what
the Bab and Baha’u’llah taught are lies, lies that will lead many people to Hell because
what Christ offered (his life) apparently wasn’t good enough, “No we want prophets and
revelations, signs and wonders, something other than a DEAD BOOK!”

(If you want specifics on how
they contradict the Bible, we
have been over this. Just look
back in previous posts where a
host of passages were given).
​

 

[SoMissCatholic]

Nice post LittleMiss

May I ask you when you say that Christians do not mean that Jesus is God as in He’s not the Father, but rather that Jesus is “divine”, what do you mean by “divine”?

Does divine mean that what He speaks is the Words of God? what He does is the Will of God?

By “divine” I mean that Jesus is the one true God. He is consubstantial with the Father, that is He and the Father are one and the same God, yet He and the Father (and the Holy Spirit) are different persons.