Could Muhammad of been a prophet?

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My goodness! So much hostility in here. Where does it all come from? Mostly, beliefs are inherited, and the perspective people have is shaped by those around them. Never stopping to think “What if I had been born in this person’s shoes. Then what would I believe?”

It seems to me that we need to view ourselves as pool balls on a table. We’ve all been hit with these other moving balls and obtain our direction and momentum accordingly. How do we then arrive at “our own” view of the world and a set of beliefs that we can truly say are “ours”?

Does anybody follow the logic in this line of thought? As this thread is running out soon, I wonder where we can all meet and chat in friendly fashion in productive dialogue. (Probably get everybody mad at me for pointing this stuff out, but really… Why do we end up believing what we say we believe?) Maybe that could be a thread topic, eh?

Anybody want to try to begin something as general as that? Something that makes room for whatever it is a person believes and let them state their whys and wherefores, but without running down anyone in the process.

Peace, my brothers. Salaam, ya’ll…
 
TheSufi said:
We don’t ever read the same thing the same way. We have two different world views and backgrounds. It is silly to expect everyone to see things from your point of view. Even if a person see things from your perspective, it doesn’t mean they will accept your conclusion because we have to different world views and background.
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How about “reading in context”? I think both Muslims and Christians are equally ca-
pable of “reading in context”, until it gets to the point where “in context” hurts Islam.
 
daler said:
My goodness! So much hostility in here. Where does it all come from? Mostly, beliefs are inherited, and the perspective people have is shaped by those around them. Never stopping to think “What if I had been born in this person’s shoes. Then what would I believe?”
It seems to me that we need to view ourselves as pool balls on a table. We’ve all been hit with these other moving balls and obtain our direction and momentum accordingly. How do we then arrive at “our own” view of the world and a set of beliefs that we can truly say are “ours”?
Does anybody follow the logic in this line of thought? As this thread is running out soon, I wonder where we can all meet and chat in friendly fashion in productive dialogue. (Probably get everybody mad at me for pointing this stuff out, but really… Why do we end up believing what we say we believe?) Maybe that could be a thread topic, eh?
Anybody want to try to begin something as general as that? Something that makes room for whatever it is a person believes and let them state their whys and wherefores, but without running down anyone in the process.

Peace, my brothers. Salaam, ya’ll…
Click to expand...
Listen to God:They that forsake the Law praise
the wicked; But such as keep
the law contend with them.
  • (Proverbs 28:4)
Dearly Beloved, taking all care to write
unto you concerning your common sal-
vation, I was under a necessity to write
unto you**:** to .beseech. .you to. contend
earnestly for the faith that was once for
all delivered to the saints.
  • (Jude 1:3)
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Listen to God:They that forsake the Law praise
the wicked; But such as keep
the law contend with them.
  • (Proverbs 28:4)
Dearly Beloved, taking all care to write
unto you concerning your common sal-
vation, I was under a necessity to write
unto you**:** to .beseech. .you to. contend
earnestly for the faith that was once for
all delivered to the saints.
  • (Jude 1:3)
Click to expand...
What is “the Law” Judas?

Is proclaiming that “Jesus is God” considered “keeping the law” as quoted in Proverbs?

.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
How about “reading in context”? I think both Muslims and Christians are equally ca-
pable of “reading in context”, until it gets to the point where “in context” hurts Islam.
Click to expand...
Not really.

Paul works aren’t scripture to me. Paul never knew Jesus.

Islam existed exist before you and will continue to exist after you.
 
Servant19 said:
What is “the Law” Judas?

Is proclaiming that “Jesus is God” considered “keeping the law” as quoted in Proverbs?
Click to expand...
The Law of the Old Testament, of Moses, was something God used to convict the
Jews, showing that no one can be righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God.

Jesus, however, being God, fulfilled the the Law perfectly, suffered the punishment
for sin, though was sinless, so now in trusting Jesus, the real Jesus, believers are
justified and can put on the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
 
TheSufi said:
Not really.

Paul works aren’t scripture to me. Paul never knew Jesus.

Islam existed exist before you and will continue to exist after you.
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That’s fine, but that’s not what you said; we’re commenting on your error, not on Paul’s Apostleship.

Although, Paul’s claim about being in Damascus, being lowered in a basket, meeting the Disciples, having Jesus appear to him are all consistent with “The Acts.”

Then again, according to Islam, Christianity is a big conspiracy theory.
 
TheSufi said:
Not really.

Paul works aren’t scripture to me. Paul never knew Jesus.

Islam existed exist before you and will continue to exist after you.
Click to expand...
Not Scripture to you because Muhammad told you.

I already told you about the kind of person Paul was, as a Jew, then about
his radical conversion to Christianity, that Jesus himself had called Paul to
serve him and his Gospel, and you cannot account for it. No explanations,
just nope, not Muslim.

Jesus Christ existed before you, me, before all things,
seen & unseen, is without a beginning, and will go on
existing, even from everlasting to everlasting.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
The Law of the Old Testament, of Moses, was something God used to convict the
Jews, showing that no one can be righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God.

Jesus, however, being God, fulfilled the the Law perfectly, suffered the punishment
for sin, though was sinless, so now in trusting Jesus, the real Jesus, believers are
justified and can put on the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I’m glad yourself and dronald are having fun talking about unsubstantiated history as if it Jesus and Muhammad lived last week and their lives was documented day by day by independent witnesses 😃

What is the Kingdom of God, Judas?
“no-one is righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God”?

Why would God prevent entry to the Kingdom of God to the saintly people before Jesus came?
 
TheSufi said:
Code:
No…

Paul was NOT an apostle of Jesus, he never knew Jesus.
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Yeah… Paul certainly didn’t want any glory.

1 Corin 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
 
dronald said:
Yeah… Paul certainly didn’t want any glory.

1 Corin 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
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Actually, Paul also claims that Jesus revealed to Him the Truth BEFORE any of the other twleve.

Paul believes he was the FIRST Apostle…

He has stated on a few occasions that the Twelve know “nothing” in comparison to himself…

(let it be known that I consider Pauls letters as legitimately inspired Scripture, but not the same as Jesus’ own Words…Paul was not the Word made flesh)

.
 
Servant19 said:
Actually, Paul also claims that Jesus revealed to Him the Truth BEFORE any of the other twleve.

Paul believes he was the FIRST Apostle…

He has stated on a few occasions that the Twelve know “nothing” in comparison to himself…

(let it be known that I consider Pauls letters as legitimately inspired Scripture, but not the same as Jesus’ own Words…Paul was not the Word made flesh)

.
Click to expand...
You’ll have to cite your claims my friend. 🙂
 
dronald said:
You’ll have to cite your claims my friend. 🙂
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Sure 🙂

Galatians 1:15
“But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me”

Paul was an Apostle in his mother’s womb, long before Jesus handpicked any Apostles toiling away on their fields…
 
Servant19 said:
Sure 🙂

Galatians 1:15
“But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me”

Paul was an Apostle in his mother’s womb, long before Jesus handpicked any Apostles toiling away on their fields…
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Ah I see! No, sorry my friend you’ve confused his meaning. No doubt God chose Paul before the foundation of the world as God’s plan is eternal as is He. God did not one day decide “Hey, I think I’ll pick this guy.” God would have known eternally and the same applies to the other Apostles, Mary, Moses, etc.
 
Servant19 said:
I’m glad yourself and dronald are having fun talking about unsubstantiated history as if it Jesus and Muhammad lived last week and their lives was documented day by day by independent witnesses 😃
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I’m only going on the Word of God here. The voice of one, saying: Cry. And I said: What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the glory thereof as the flower of the held.
The grass is withered, and the dower is fallen, because the spirit of the Lord hath blown upon it. Indeed the people is grass:
​
The grass is withered, and the flower is fallen:
But the word of our God endureth forever.
​
– (Isaiah 40:6-8)
​
Servant19 said:
What is the Kingdom of God, Judas?
Click to expand...
What is the Kingdom of God? Depending on the context,
we’re either talking Heaven or the Kingdom to Come after
the final defeat of the Devil.
Servant19 said:
“no-one is righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God”?
Click to expand...
That’s right, NO ONE, not you, not me, not anyone, no one without the real Jesus.
Servant19 said:
Why would God prevent entry to the Kingdom of God to the saintly people before Jesus came?
Click to expand...
Nothing unclean is permitted to be within the Presence of God. Such is justice accord-
ing to God. We are all sinners and will be never worthy enough by ourselves. We can
do all the goody things we want, but it is all NOTHING in terms of our own merit before
the Infinite and Eternal God.
 
TheSufi said:
Code:
No…
Paul was NOT an apostle of Jesus, he never knew Jesus.
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Which leads us back to Paul’s radical conversion! Paul was a serious Jew, SO serious, he
killed anybody who professed Jesus as the Son of God and Messiah, then something hap-
pened, THEN HE BECAME A CHRISTIAN ! ! !

What Happened?!

Jesus came to him. Jesus taught him. Paul knew Jesus. He was an apostle, maybe not one of the Twelve, but an apostle nonetheless.

You keep dodging that point very easily, don’t you?
 
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