Could my past come back to haunt me?

[Shameless]

EtienneGilson:

Give it up, even the CatholicAnswers website has an article which falls JUST short of calling Fr. Amorth a wacko: catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0001revw.asp

As for believing in the Devil…I take the episode of the fallen angels just as seriously as the episode of Adam and Eve in the garden. I do not know what the Devil is but it is a little much to blame everything on him.

Does the devil exist? If the devil is pure evil, and existence is inherently good, then it is logically impossible for the devil to exist per se. The possible existence of a non-existent being is an interesting question but according to Thomism it is hard to reconcile with metaphysics.

The link you provided was written by Edward Peters whom I have never heard of, last time I checked Karl Keating ran the Catholic Answers. Ignatius Press publishes Fr. Gabriel Amorth’s books, a reputable Catholic publishing company. Fr. Corapi quotes him favorably several times in his spiritual combat cd set. Jesse Romero from the Catholic resource center did a series on the radio about exorcism and quoted from his books many times. Spirit Daily endorses his books. The exorcists of the world elected him lifelong president of association of exorcists. So he obviously is a very well respected man in his field except by you and Edward Peters.

 

[Joey1976]

Shameless,

I was in the same situation and listened to the same music. I was addicted to it and it was hard for me to give up and this music also led me to depression. I just confessed it to a priest and do not listen to it anymore. I do beleive theis music has an influence on us and it did bring me down. I hope you will get over this rut you are in but if you aren’t listeining to this music anymore than maybe it is coming from somewhere else.

 

[tjmiller]

How much one’s poor choices of the past will come back to haunt him in the future depends greatly upon the choices he is making in the present.

Therefore: how much (if at all) your poor musical choices of the past will come back to haunt you in the future depends heavily upon the musical choices you are making now.

The best way to answer your question, then, is to examine carefully the music you currently listen to, and your motivations in so doing. You likely threw out that other rubbish long ago - but what rubbish may need to be thrown out now?

[In this the 250th Anniversary of his birth (January 27, 1756), I cannot help but recommend the celestial harmonies of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart!] :yup:

 

[Sean_O_L]

Shameless wrote:

The link you provided was written by Edward Peters whom I have never heard of

Below is an extract from the web-site of Canon Lawyer, Dr Edward Peters at canonlaw.info

This is the homepage and resource center of Dr. Edward Peters, an American lay canon lawyer. Dr. Peters teaches, writes, speaks, and consults on a wide variety of canonical issues impacting the Church in the United States and around the world. He holds the Edmund Cdl. Szoka Chair at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, MI.

Also read his his “BIO” - canonlaw.info/bio.htm

 

[Shameless]

Sean O L:

Shameless wrote:

Below is an extract from the web-site of Canon Lawyer, Dr Edward Peters at canonlaw.info

Also read his his “BIO” - canonlaw.info/bio.htm

Thanks, but my beef was he’s NOT an expert on the demonic and exorcism like Fr. Gabriel Amorth is. Therefore I don’t see why his opinion on exorcism is more valid than an exorcists opinion on the demonic.

 

[hurst]

EtienneGilson:

However, the quote is still taken out of context. I simple look at the objection (since it is a reply to an object) shows that Aquinas nowhere states these curses (spells or whatnot) have any demonic powers attached to them:

I was only showing that curses - regardless of kind - are not automatically superstitious. It only takes one example to show that.

EtienneGilson:

When you originally wrote about cursing: (* Also, satanic groups not involved in the band could have also put a curse on such music that lent itself so much to demonic suggestions. *) you were obviously refering to some form of spell-casting.

People can collude with the devil and imprecate curses. I don’t think it has to be done by casting a spell, whatever that might be.

EtienneGilson:

It might be something they try to do, but never with verying degrees of success. Thomism might have discussed the effects of casting a spell or a curse on the state of the soul of the person who cast it, but I have yet to see any evidence that he believed that the curse had an exterior effect on the person to whom it was cast.

Well, I re-read the section on cursing, and he differentiates between cursing by desire and by command, as well as the evil of fault vs the evil of punishment.

According to cursing as the evil of punishment by command, it is definitely a cause. Certain Biblical examples are even given. And is this not precisely what the devil tries to do - call down God’s punishment on us according to our sins?

Aside from this, it is dogma that the Devil has a certain dominion over us by reason of Adam’s sin.

EtienneGilson:

From a Thomistic metaphysical position of form and matter, I am still want to see how he reconciled evil spirits with physical causality.

I hope my above response answers this, at least in part.

If not, try this section:

OF THE ASSAULTS OF THE DEMONS (FIVE ARTICLES)
catholicprimer.org/summa/FP/FP114.html#FPQ114OUTP1

EtienneGilson:

I like to believe that the person mature in their faith has moved away from the notion of God as a Santa Claus looking grandfather figure, and the devil as some boogey-man.

Isn’t the goal to become like a child? Maturing means moving away from being selfish to being self-giving.

The devil is still an evil spirit trying to do us harm, whether you see him as a “bogeyman” or as the instrument of God’s justice.

EtienneGilson:

I believe that it is necessary to point out that the cursing refered to in the passages from the Summa and the cursing (spell-casting) we are discussing are two seperate things.

I think that would be helpful overall.

But let me say in advance, that if spell-casting involves calling upon the demons to assault someone, then even that is not necessarily superstitious. Sorcery is a real thing.

EtienneGilson:

Thomas’ cursing is found in “petty injustices to the world” section right after whispering and derision.

Which edition are you reading? The site I refer to calls the section “TREATISE ON PRUDENCE AND JUSTICE”. This is not “petty” at all. In fact, did you notice how he talks about them as being sufficiently grave to be mortal sins?

EtienneGilson:

Here is what Walter Farrell notes on the passage:

*Cursing directed against God is blasphemy; against the irrational world it is a waste of breath …; against the devil, it is an attempt to gild the lily. …
*

I think this summary is just to gain perspective from a distance. But it is not accurate of itself, nor even in line according to the Summa. catholicprimer.org/summa/SS/SS076.html#SSQ76A3THEP1

Cursing the irrational world is not just wasting breath, but committing mortal sin!

Directing a curse against the devil is not gilding the lily. It results in bringing a curse upon oneself!

But it is true that sometimes one who uses curse words are not intending to actually do evil.

EtienneGilson:

I do not see any spiritual powers here. I am more worried about negative messages in music, such as the objectification of women and the encouragement of violence in rap, than spirit-curses on Metallica albums.

Both should be a matter of concern.

Again, here is an example

Thus the magicians of Pharaoh by the demons’ power produced real serpents and frogs. And “when fire came down from heaven and at one blow consumed Job’s servants and sheep; when the storm struck down his house and with it his children—these were the work of Satan, not phantoms”; as Augustine says (De Civ. Dei xx, 19).

OF THE ASSAULTS OF THE DEMONS (FIVE ARTICLES)
catholicprimer.org/summa/FP/FP114.html#FPQ114A4THEP1

hurst

 

[hurst]

EtienneGilson:

Does the devil exist? If the devil is pure evil, and existence is inherently good, then it is logically impossible for the devil to exist per se. The possible existence of a non-existent being is an interesting question but according to Thomism it is hard to reconcile with metaphysics.

Right. Thus, the devil is not “pure evil”. He has a nature created good by God, but chose by his free will to do evil. He is now cursed by God to damnation for eternity.

It can be said that his past now haunts him forever. Furthermore, he tries to haunt everyone else (in a way).

hurst

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Oh please…Stop it…Just stop it. We are here to help Shameless, not turn to debate.

Shameless, dear- Yes, there is a devil (never give him a capital d). Good news: Jesus died and rose BTW so that the devil could be defeated.

Your sins are going to haunt you. I was told this by my confessor, who is a very normal person. Everybody who has actually committed a genuine, full-blown, first-class mortal sin is going to be haunted by those sins. Why? Part of it is guilt, part of it is remorse, part of it is the devil wanting you to give up. SO DON’T GIVE UP.

Only you know how deep you got into satanism. If you think you got into it very deeply, go talk to a priest, or a couple priests and maybe a truly Catholic psychologist. Maybe you need some sort of deliverence, maybe you don’t.

If not, surround yourself with “good stuff” like frequent confession and the Eucharist. Develop the habit of being thankful for what you’ve been given. Spend time contemplating God’s mercy, goodness, beauty, and go from there. Watch EWTN and listen to Cahtolic radio.

And go easy on yourself, as a lot of people are trying to tell you. You and the majority who populate a whole generation- A WHOLE GENERATION- fell for it. God is merciful, and there are solutions, which started the day you determined to walk into a confessional.

 

[Island_Oak]

Shameless:

I just feel like I’m only going through the motions of being Catholic, like I’m plugged in but there is no juice - if that makes any sense.

Now that you have your eyes open to what some of this stands for, what do you have to worry about? Do you really believe you could be so easily misled again now that you are older and wiser?

As for going through the motions…don’t feel that what you do is in vain. The discipline of attending mass, going to confession and thinking about your life from a Catholic perspective are all signs of respect for God and desire to be in relationship with Him. Your dissatisfaction with your progress is a sign of God working in your heart. How could something evil prompt you to move away from what you know to be sinful in your life?

Offer up your good intentions and pray for God’s help with your weak will. God knows your heart, sees your effort, forgives your shortcomings if you just ask and MOST IMPORTANTLY, loves you and has called you His own. He will never give up on you

 

[TheRaiders]

Shameless:

I used to be a big metal head, I listened to a lot of heavy metal music as a teen and early 20’s, I am afraid I may have let a lot of demonic influences into my life that would explain some of the sin I am caught into now. I used to listen to Metallica, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, Def Leppard, Obituary, Testament, Exodus, Anthrax, Megadeth, Helloween, Iron Maiden and a lot more. I heard Fr. Corapi talk on this before when he used to live in L.A. saying he was in a recording studio when a major Rock Band dedicated their album to Satan, and Fr. Gabriel Amorth talks about it in his books (An Exorcist tells his story and an Exorcist: More Stories). I just wonder how much of this music damaged me, anyone know anything about it?

I have seen and heard of a few things that scare me concerning the devil. I have come to the realization that many people are the devil’s mouthpiece though, knowingly or not.
I was watching a heavy metal band that performed after Saturday Night Live a week or so ago. I think it was Tool. Let me tell you, it was disturbing. Some heavy metal could be described as pleasing music, regardless of its lyrics or abrasive style. the creepy melodies and droning bass were just the beginning though. It was the lead singer’s voice that was sickening. If anyone has sold his soul to the devil for riches and fame it is him. He wasn’t even singing notes, or words for what I could tell. He would wait his turn while the band played, and then attack the microphone with something straight out of Exorcist I kid you not. If Satan has his own language, this was it. Also, his voice was deeper than I thought possible. I do think that music can lead to little imps in your brain that you don’t want in there. In these times we must be careful. Ever hear of a concept of someone who is “perfectly possessed”? This is a supposedly rare form of posession where a person gives themselves completely over to the demon. They can walk among us and many wouldn’t know. I read a book by an exorcist Father Malachi where he mentions it. I think some famous people who seemingly have no talent but are famous anyway and are always undermining Christian culture may be a form of this.
Patrick