Could Satan conceivably have won?

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If there was a revolt in Heaven and Satan and his angels fought against God, could the devil conceivably have won? If God is all powerful, and the angels are not, then logically the outcome was a foregone conclusion.

But if the angels have a superior intellect, then surely they wouldn’t enter into a pointless war, if defeat was certain. So is it conceivable, if enough of the angels had revolted, that the Almighty could have been defeated?

Or am I taking this story too literally?
 
DL82 said:
If there was a revolt in Heaven and Satan and his angels fought against God, could the devil conceivably have won? If God is all powerful, and the angels are not, then logically the outcome was a foregone conclusion.

But if the angels have a superior intellect, then surely they wouldn’t enter into a pointless war, if defeat was certain. So is it conceivable, if enough of the angels had revolted, that the Almighty could have been defeated?

Or am I taking this story too literally?
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How can an all-powerful being be overthrown? I don’t think its possible that the devil could have won.

Take us for example, we know perfectly well what sin does. We know perfectly well that we risk our souls when we sin, and yet we still do it. I think the same is true with the devil, he knew perfectly well he was going to lose, yet he still did it in defiance of God.

At least, that’s how I see it.
 
Short answer, No. Long answer, No.

The good side always wins. Period.
 
The initial fall of man is described by the Bible as attempting to be “like gods, knowing good and evil.” I tend to go with an interpretation of “knowing” meaning deciding that what you want to be good or evil is that, despite the evidence of reason and revelation. In any case, the revolt is likened to an attempted self-divinization. It’s an attempt to exalt yourself for your own sake as if you were an absolute good, which is only good and true for God to do, because he is absolute Good.

This pride is an attempted usurpation of God’s throne, of one’s being the point of reference for all truth and goodness. I wouldn’t imagine Lord of the Rings-style armies of angels and demons battling each other for the possession of a heavenly realm, except as a metaphor. Angels (and God) are pure spirits, and their conflicts with each other will be on the level of intellect and will.
 
smichhertz said:
How can an all-powerful being be overthrown? I don’t think its possible that the devil could have won.

Take us for example, we know perfectly well what sin does. We know perfectly well that we risk our souls when we sin, and yet we still do it. I think the same is true with the devil, he knew perfectly well he was going to lose, yet he still did it in defiance of God.

At least, that’s how I see it.
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God sent Jesus to bring mankind back to Him. Looking at the secular world today and all of its wicked ways, I sometimes wonder if God would turn His back on mankind for not following the teachings of Jesus. Would he allow Satan a foothold to teach mankind a lesson? I wonder if this is how the prophesy of The 3 Days of Darkness has a foothold? According to that the demons will reign on Earth for 3 day’s and then God will again sweep them into the pit. There is a lot to ponder over. How can God not be angry with mankind? God loves us all unconditionally, but He has also given us Laws to follow, which for a majority of mankind, they do not. Can the prayers of the faithful outweigh the misgivings of the secular world? We will see.
 
DL82 said:
If there was a revolt in Heaven and Satan and his angels fought against God, could the devil conceivably have won? If God is all powerful, and the angels are not, then logically the outcome was a foregone conclusion.

But if the angels have a superior intellect, then surely they wouldn’t enter into a pointless war, if defeat was certain. So is it conceivable, if enough of the angels had revolted, that the Almighty could have been defeated?

Or am I taking this story too literally?
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There are key statements in the Bible that explain what happened. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, we read how He fasted for 40 days in the desert and was tempted by the devil. “The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, ‘I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to’” (Luke 04:05). The clue is that the Earth was given to Lucifer (presumably when he was in good favor). Before the devil fell from grace, he was one of God’s favorites, comparable to the disciple Judas. One can ascertain from the Bible passage that when God gives something, it is an unconditional gift. Notwithstanding the expulsion, “How art thou fallen from heaven, Oh Lucifer, son of the morning? How art thou cut down to the ground” (Isaiah 14:12). “And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

As science progressed, we came to understand that the tiny points of light in the sky are actually distant suns like our own. As physical cosmology progressed, we became aware of the 100 trillion stars in our Galaxy. Enhanced telescopes revealed that there are over a 100 trillion Galaxies in our field of view. It’s a foregone conclusion that there are many more discoveries yet to be revealed as we peer further into the Universe. It starts becoming reasonable to presume that there is a lot out there that we don’t know about. Some phrases in the Bible indicate that the devil was cast out the Heavens and quarantined to his domain, the Earth.

God Bless
 
The question follows, why doesn’t Satan give up now? Doesn’t he realize that he’s not getting any stronger and God’s not getting any weaker? 🤷

I don’t think any of us really has a definitive answer
 
The Church does not teach on this question, but I have read theologians who theorize that angels did not initially share in the Beatific Vision, because, if they did share in this, none of them (nor any rational creature) would choose to turn away (much less, to pick a fight).
 
I actually grappled with a similar question months ago. One way to look at this is to realize that God along with the angels are not made up of matter like us. Satan could not physically attack God. This would be more a battle of wills which resulted in Satan convincing a third of the angels to also reject God. One of the best ways to sum up Satan’s point of view and rationalize him turning against God come’s from John Milton’s Paradise Lost, “Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven”
 
Matorin said:
The question follows, why doesn’t Satan give up now? Doesn’t he realize that he’s not getting any stronger and God’s not getting any weaker? 🤷

I don’t think any of us really has a definitive answer
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I always saw it like this: Satan knows he’s lost, now he’s simply trying to take as many souls as he can with him. Satan is already in a permanent state of defiance against God. He will never repent or be sorry for his rebellion. Since he cannot “overthrow” God, he now attempts to drag as many souls to Hell as possible. Misery loves company, I guess.
 
I always saw it like this: Satan knows he’s lost, now he’s simply trying to take as many souls as he can with him. Satan is already in a permanent state of defiance against God. He will never repent or be sorry for his rebellion. Since he cannot “overthrow” God, he now attempts to drag as many souls to Hell as possible. Misery loves company, I guess.
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Well considering the numbers entering heaven will most likely not even be over a billion I’d say Satan won…
 
A cretura ex nihilo against an Almighty Infine God, I don’t think so.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Well considering the numbers entering heaven will most likely not even be over a billion I’d say Satan won…
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I don’t see how the number of people saved has anything to do with Satan winning or losing. God became man and redeemed mankind by His blood. That was Satan’s final defeat. God has become the God-man, which was the ultimate humiliation for Satan.

Even if only one was saved, God still won.
 
I don’t see how the number of people saved has anything to do with Satan winning or losing. God became man and redeemed mankind by His blood. That was Satan’s final defeat. God has become the God-man, which was the ultimate humiliation for Satan.
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Even if only one was saved, God still won.
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Really?

So if that one person twiddled his thumbs in Heaven while every single other other human being wallowed in the harsh eternal pain of Hell that counts as a victory? I mean I realize Hell is no pleasure dome for Satan either, but quite honestly it is like if a serial killer killed your entire family and your thought process was, “Well at least he’s in jail now…”
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Really?

So if that one person twiddled his thumbs in Heaven while every single other other human being wallowed in the harsh eternal pain of Hell that counts as a victory? I mean I realize Hell is no pleasure dome for Satan either, but quite honestly it is like if a serial killer killed your entire family and your thought process was, “Well at least he’s in jail now…”
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My point is that we are in no way necessary for God to claim victory. He won over Satan and Satan is now in Hell. The End. We have no bearing on whether or not God won. Obviously, God loves us and wants us to be in Heaven, but He has already won the war and Satan has lost and he knows it.

I don’t understand what’s confusing you…?
 
My point is that we are in no way necessary for God to claim victory. He won over Satan and Satan is now in Hell. The End. We have no bearing on whether or not God won. Obviously, God loves us and wants us to be in Heaven, but He has already won the war and Satan has lost and he knows it.
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I don’t understand what’s confusing you…?
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It’s this view that even if Humanity loses by the shear fact that a majority are going to Hell that it’s ok because God still wins! Who cares if God won, he is all powerful of course he won! I cannot understand this notion that even though most humans are going to Hell to spend an eternity detached from God and possibly in painful torment that it’s ok because “God still won in the end”.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
It’s this view that even if Humanity loses by the shear fact that a majority are going to Hell that it’s ok because God still wins! Who cares if God won, he is all powerful of course he won!
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Ah, okay thanks, I understand better now. Certainly, from the point of view of humanity, its hardly a “victory” if only one of us is saved and the rest damned.

However, the OP was more in line with God’s perspective. And like you said, “he is all powerful of course he won!” God wins simply by his nature. The fact that He is God means He wins.

But you’re right, from our point of view, that not exactly consoling unless we make it to Heaven.
 
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