Could someone please explain Ephesians 5:22-33 to me?

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Ephesians 5:22-33
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church

What does this mean? But why should a wife submit to her husband if the majority of men are selfish and immoral? Based on my observation (men who don’t fit this description please don’t take offense), more often than not women are more empathetic and less selfish and immoral than men. Men for the most part are much more violent and unchaste then women. So if anything, wouldn’t it be the women who should have authority over the men? I don’t want to be sexist and I want understand men better. I’m just confused because it’s just so inconsistent: the Bible says that men are superior and that women should obey them, but based on real life observations, men’s actions are not consistent with what the Bible says they are and that if anything women should have the authority and be the mother figures and teachers of men. So why does the Bible say that women are inferior? From a woman’s perspective this is very hurtful and confusing to me and I want to understand it better. I am inferior? If I were to marry a man who was moral and a good example like my father, I would be more than happy to obey him if he is right. But what if I end up marrying someone who is less righteous than me or knows less than me? And why should I respect someone while they don’t have to respect me? I am confused, hurt and angry by this.
 
The Bible doesn’t teach that women are inferior, and has lots of praises for women (although the ancient Jewish culture at times perceived women as inferior).
Don’t get stuck on the first part of this passage. Read what follows: “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the Church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her”. So, we, husbands, are to give up our lives for our wives - especially in everyday routine.
This passage speaks to both, women AND men, and commands us to give up our lives for each other. Unfortunately so often men just ignore this second part to justify themselves. Wrong! A husband HAS to respect and serve his wife.
Also, being submissive doesn’t mean being inferior. The responsibility of those in leadership of some sort is to protect and take care of those they are in authority over, and in fact, serve them. But if you’re authority happens to be misusing their position (be it your husband or your boss), God still calls you to submit to that authority and witness to them through it. Remember how St.Paul called to be submissive to those in authority, although those authorities were oppressing him so much more than so many people are being oppressed today.
And if you think your future husband won’t respect you, don’t get married to the guy.
 
That is why its important for a Woman to marry a man that loves the truth more then her.

‘‘All decent women feel secure with a man who, when tested, is found to love what is right in his heart before her’’ Roy Masters

When a man is this way the natural harmony of Life can run through a marriage.

But when a man isnt this way , say hes wimpish and his wife runs over him because she doesnt respect him, or hes bullish and then so the wife resents him. Or his oversexed and the wife has contempt for him.These things in men bring up the worse in women and lead to a very hostile marriage.

But The Natural Order of things is a Man to be the Head of the household, and to help his wife , just like Christ helps the Church.

As Christ Loves the Hell out of us, So does man Love the Hell out of his wife.The man takes the example of Christ love for the Church and applies it to his wife.

This only can be done if the Man is connected to the Vine the Lord Jesus Christ The source of all Goodness and Truth.
 
read the verse before it, it says to submit to one another first.

The text assumes that the husband is a loving example of christ himself who is willing to sacrifice himself for his wife.

I cor 7 speaks of marriage between a believer and unbeliever.
 
cavyqueen said:
What does this mean? But why should a wife submit to her husband if the majority of men are selfish and immoral?
Click to expand...
I don’t think anything else you have been posting (here and on your other thread about men) can be answered, or is relevant, until you can express why it is you have these thoughts about men.

Either a specific man has hurt you terribly, or you need to drop out of Women’s Studies classes and deprogram yourself.

So, why is it you think this of men?
 
Hi Cavyqueen,

John Paul II treats this subject in his encyclical Mulieris Dignitatem on the dignity and vocaiton of women.
  1. The text is addressed to the spouses as real women and men. It reminds them of the “ethos” of spousal love which goes back to the divine institution of marriage from the “beginning”. Corresponding to the truth of this institution is the exhortation: “*Husbands, love your wives”, *love them because of that special and unique bond whereby in marriage a man and a woman become “one flesh” *(Gen *2:24; *Eph *5:31). In this love there is a fundamental *affirmation of the woman *as a person. This affirmation makes it possible for the female personality to develop fully and be enriched. This is precisely the way Christ acts as the bridegroom of the Church; he desires that she be “in splendour, without spot or wrinkle” *(Eph *5:27). One can say that this fully captures the whole “style” of Christ in dealing with women. Husbands should make their own the elements of this style in regard to their wives; analogously, all men should do the same in regard to women in every situation. In this way both men and women bring about “the sincere gift of self”.
The author of the Letter to the Ephesians sees no contradiction between an exhortation formulated in this way and the words: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife” (5:22-23). The author knows that this way of speaking, so profoundly rooted in the customs and religious tradition of the time, is to be understood and carried out in a new way: as a “*mutual subjection out of reverence for Christ” *(cf. *Eph *5:21). This is especially true because the husband is called the “head” of the wife *as *Christ is the head of the Church; he is so in order to give “himself up for her” *(Eph *5:25), and giving himself up for her means giving up even his own life. However, whereas in the relationship between Christ and the Church the subjection is only on the part of the Church, in the relationship between husband and wife the “subjection” is not one-sided but mutual.
Click to expand...
The model for the Christian couple is the relationship betwen Christ and his Church. The love and respect that the Church has for Christ is the model for the Christian woman. The love and care that Christ has for His Church is the model for the Christian man. St. Paul expresses this thought in language that corresponds to the attitude of this time. But the meaning is for all time.

To read the full text click
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

Verbum
 
1ke said:
I don’t think anything else you have been posting (here and on your other thread about men) can be answered, or is relevant, until you can express why it is you have these thoughts about men.

Either a specific man has hurt you terribly, or you need to drop out of Women’s Studies classes and deprogram yourself.

So, why is it you think this of men?
Click to expand...
Amen!

However, in her defense, I can totally see shadows of my college self in these posts. I was an angry liberal feminist who was utterly convinced that men were evil and women were these morally superior, spiritually resplendant betters who could actually effect real change in the world if they weren’t always being damaged by all these dang men.

Then, by the prayers and intercession of, all people, Our Lady, I was led down the path of the Truth, and was able to see the moral poison that my liberal arts college was pouring down my throat. When you’re in the middle of it, it’s very, very hard to see the real enemy isn’t the male gender, but rather an academic system that prizes atheism, moral relativism, and the complete breakdown of traditional values over all other things- and the state of many universities means that young adults are put right in the middle of such a moral quagmire.

You’re in my prayers,
Cari
 
cavyqueen said:
Ephesians 5:22-33
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church

What does this mean? But why should a wife submit to her husband if the majority of men are selfish and immoral? Based on my observation (men who don’t fit this description please don’t take offense), more often than not women are more empathetic and less selfish and immoral than men. Men for the most part are much more violent and unchaste then women. So if anything, wouldn’t it be the women who should have authority over the men? I don’t want to be sexist and I want understand men better. I’m just confused because it’s just so inconsistent: the Bible says that men are superior and that women should obey them, but based on real life observations, men’s actions are not consistent with what the Bible says they are and that if anything women should have the authority and be the mother figures and teachers of men. So why does the Bible say that women are inferior? From a woman’s perspective this is very hurtful and confusing to me and I want to understand it better. I am inferior? If I were to marry a man who was moral and a good example like my father, I would be more than happy to obey him if he is right. But what if I end up marrying someone who is less righteous than me or knows less than me? And why should I respect someone while they don’t have to respect me? I am confused, hurt and angry by this.
Click to expand...
You don’t want to omit the part that says,

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=5&version=31#fen-NIV-29315b”)] her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. "

Just as Christ loved the Church. How did Christ love the Church? He layed his life down for her.

Good husbands are out there, and God has a perfect plan for your life.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Paul was trying to get the Greek members of the congregation to behave more like the Jewish members who had a tradition of respect for their women.

Matthew
 
First, I’m sorry if you’ve been hurt by a man or men. Not all men are like this. We must choose men who love Christ and want to be Christlike and love us as Christ loved the church. If we are with such men, it’s easier to submit in love.
 
Cavy, another thread about men? You say you don’t want to be sexist, but what you keep saying about men is nasty, hateful and dehumanising. Stop and think.

89% vs 88% as I stated in the other thread isn’t much more unchaste. Men are more aggressive, and while that has disadvantages, it also has significant advantages. Who would you feel safer with in a dangerous area at night - a typical man or John Lennon, who, in the face of danger, would heroically stage a bed-in?

You say that men’s actions are not consistent with what the Bible says, but the exact same thing can be said of women and to the same degree. You’re making women out to be the saints that, based on real life observations, they clearly are not.

Of course you should feel hurt and angry if you think the Bible says that men are superior to women. It, however, does not say that: Gal 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Let me show you the male perspective, rephrasing some of what you said in the first post.

Eph 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Christ died for the Church. That’s pretty high demands the Bible places on men, don’t you think?

Why should a husband sacrifice for his wife if the majority of women are selfish and immoral? 88% is a majority, by the way.

Based on my observation (women, don’t take offense), the reverse is true. I’ve seen the worst women have to offer, not least from my own mother, and it ain’t pretty. I could easily make generalisations about women being volatile, irrational, emotionally abusive, vindictive, unforgiving, manipulative and immoral, but unlike you, I don’t think that I can apply my observations to the whole female population. Many women are warm, loving, caring and deserving of love and admiration.

The Bible doesn’t say that men don’t have to respect their wives. Furthermore, submission is passive, whereas if I were to marry a disrespectful, vindictive and controlling battleaxe, I am still commanded actively to love her, sacrifice for her and treat her as my own body. I know which one seems harder to me. The Bible cuts both ways. That’s why it’s important to choose carefully whom one marries, for both men and women.

Authority is not the same as superiority.

The Bible does says that men and women have different roles. Those roles are not completely interchangeable. The male and female roles are complementary, and someone has to lead the dance or they’ll both end up stepping on each other’s toes. A man cannot give birth, but is physically and psychologically better suited to do that which he is wired to do - to protect and provide and even die for a woman and his children. The willingness to die for the sake of protecting family is strongly wired into some of us. Is that selfish?

In the cultural context of the time, remember that work was generally very demanding physically, so, what the Bible tells men is to sacrifice themselves for their wives and to “love their wives as their own bodies,” (Eph 5:28) - i.e. not to be selfish, and it tells women not to spit in the face of the man who breaks his back for her sake. A man expresses his love for his wife by sacrifice. A woman through respect.

Today, in developed countries at least, the situation is somewhat different than in biblical times, and a great deal of flexibility is possible and even desirable, but the message remains valid, as the sexes will always be different. If a woman is to have children, she still needs safety and material security and it remains natural for the man to assume leadership in negotiating the outside world for the sake of providing for her needs. It is further natural that she should respect his dedication. He is the pilot and she is the co-pilot. If he is unable to steer, the co-pilot can take over for a time, but if they wrestle over the controls, they’re going to crash and burn. It is in a man’s nature to look after the woman he loves and in a woman’s nature to trust the man that loves her. Ironically, it often seems a dominant wife is dissatisfied with her husband because he doesn’t “act like a man,” whereas he feels she is controlling and doesn’t trust him. If a woman is not loved by her husband, she feels hurt, unappreciated and miserable. If a man is not respected by his wife, he feels hurt, inadequate and miserable.
 
You really need to change your attitude towards men because you’ll scare all the good guys away and you’ll be left with only those that want to use you. Seriously, such an attitude screams danger and conjures up visions of an unhappy marriage with a demanding and abusive wife with an excessive sense of entitlement followed by a costly divorce where the guy loses his property and kids and has to pay maintenance and child support, all the while getting blamed for everything.

You need to realise that men and women are more alike than different. Both have strengths, weaknesses, emotion and empathy. Both feel pain when injured physically or emotionally. You need to realise that men are human beings.

And stop this nonsense about men being more sexually immoral than women. Even if they are, the difference isn’t significant.

Women’s Sexual Behaviors May Be Closer To Men’s Than Previously Thought
However, a new study shows that some reported gender differences might show up because women don’t always answer surveys honestly, but give answers they believe are expected of them.

“Women are sensitive to social expectations for their sexual behavior and may be less than totally honest when asked about their behavior in some survey conditions”
…
In this study, the researchers asked men and women about their sexual attitudes and behaviors under several different testing conditions including one in which the participants believed they were connected to a lie detector machine.

Women’s answers were closer to men’s in some areas of sexual behavior when they thought lies could be detected. Men’s answers didn’t change as much as did women’s under different testing conditions.

“Before the study, we thought men would generally overreport their sexual behavior and women would underreport it under certain testing conditions,” Fisher said. “However, we found that women were more likely than men to have different answers depending on conditions when they were surveyed.”
…
For example, women who thought their answers might be read reported an average of 2.6 sexual partners. But those who thought they were monitored by a lie detector reported an average of 4.4 sexual partners. Women who were not attached to the lie detector, but who had privacy during testing, gave answers in the middle an average of 3.4 sexual partners.

Men’s answers didn’t vary as widely. Men who thought they were attached to a polygraph reported an average of 4.0 sexual partners, compared to 3.7 partners for those who thought their answers might be seen.

“Women appear to feel pressure to adhere to sex role expectations that indicate women should be more relationship-oriented and should avoid being seen as promiscuous,” Fisher said.
*
 
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