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mfbukowski
Guest
“Explained to the best of the local bishop’s abilities”??? Doctrine varies according to local bishops? Surely that is not what you mean.—
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MelanieAnne
Guest
I don’t. It would misguided for someone to believe I do.
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dkdempsey
Guest
Certainly not.
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Arandur
Guest
No! Mski, take a step back and think about this. The Catholic Church, more than any other, bridges cultures and languages. It also recognizes the apostolic authority and role of shepherd and teacher of the local dioceses. Catechisms are, as the name says, teaching devices. To teach one needs to explain. The bishops explain to the best of their ability in the given culture and language. They explain the dogmas and doctrines of the faith. I told you where you could go to find the definitions of dogma and doctrine in their original language and time of definition–those are the documents of the Ecumenical Councils, where things often needed to be defined formally to refute heresies. The need arose to ask the Spirit to confirm teachings. Things not yet defined are still known by the Church, but have not yet needed to be set down officially and inerrantly, allowing time and room for the faithful to explore the concepts (within the context of all other truth).
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mfbukowski
Guest
Useful- Thanks.
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Arandur
Guest
I think we’ve been down this road before.
Look at your history. It is extremely obvious by the timelines that Tradition existed BEFORE the Bible, whether OT or NT. Scripture is an aid that supports Tradition and Authority. Because Scripture supports Tradition and all truth is interwoven, I don’t think that you will find any Tradition that is not supported by Scripture, but it is Tradition, the oral, physical, act-ual, and spiritual transmission of Truth that preceded scripture.
So “no” to both questions; the first because it has the time origin of the two mixed up (though, yes, some Traditions did grow greater due to Scripture–and vice versa); the second because it misunderstands how they are woven together.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
Fortunately “ignore” still works well even if “search” doesn’t!
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RebeccaJ
Guest
I’ve only put two people on ignore in the time I’ve been here. One no longer posts here. The other never stops with the same old same old. I don’t read his posts, here, or at MADB. A supreme waste of time.Fortunately “ignore” still works well even if “search” doesn’t!
I dunno why bukowski hangs about.
Asking the same thing over and over and telling us he never gets answers. Maybe it’s his age. 
Did I say that out loud??? :curtsey:
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Arandur
Guest
I said “most of what [they] do.” They don’t need new revelation to teach what has already been revealed. Hence my point that new revelation is not necessary to know what has already been revealed. And, by extension, if everything that we must know in terms of salvation has been revealed, it is therefore sufficient for all time so long as it is transmitted.
God guides, of course, I agree with you. He guides Catholics in many ways.
It’s late, so let me have a little fun here. The difference between what you’re talking about in terms of “guidance” and what we are is that Catholics recognize that God speaks in a still small voice and we must carefully listen and discern His Will. We believe that He guides us, yes, but He doesn’t just tell us what to do; He expects us to learn to grow up and make our own decisions, to exercise our intellect and gifts and grow as His children.
To simplify and exaggerate things, it seems like Mormons with your idea of a prophet to keep things current and NOW want a God that works like a vending machine. Pop in your coin, get out your answer. Scientology and televangelism are more extreme versions of these, but the principle is similar. Yet where in history did God consistently through the generations give a play by play of what the people were always supposed to do? Occasionally when the people were lost He sent prophets or supposedly the “magic 8 ball” of the urim and thummim (which Smith taught to do more than cast lots; he turned them into AltaVista and Babelfish!), but who could be better than Jesus?
I know I may have played fast and loose with your emotions here, but we’ve been chatting for long enough and its late enough tonight that hopefully you can take that in some manner of fun. I know I bore everyone with overly technical and wordy posts most of the time. Analogy is sometimes worthwhile for a point.
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Arandur
Guest
But it’s not “disobedience” if God wanted Adam to do it.
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Arandur
Guest
Just because you have a choice doesn’t mean you have to take it. So long as people chose righteously Original Justice would have persevered.
This gets complex. For one, it needn’t have actually been fruit. It could have been any act that was not in accord with God’s Will, any act of disobedience. The potential for such an act existed with the creation of a being with a will apart from God. The fruit represents that potential for choice apart from God’s will.
And I maintain that you haven’t looked very hard if you think this. I field all your questions and frankly, most of them I’ve read much deeper stuff about in Catholic sources. And I know it gets much deeper than that. Ratzinger/Benedict is almost out of my reach for comprehension he gets so deep.
Check out Peter Kreeft. Peterkreeft.org. His stuff is quite good. Some free audio downloads. He gets very deep, and is among the Catholic thinkers that probably tower over you and me.
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Arandur
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I suppose it is somewhat similar to your “spirit of prophecy.” There is indeed a “priesthood of all believers.” This does not negate or lessen the ordained priesthood, which is what the Protestants misunderstand. There is really only one office ordained by Christ: the apostolic office. That position is held by the bishops (with their various titles/groupings). The bishops ordain other men to serve and share in a portion of their office: priests and deacons. Holy Orders is a special Sacrament that provides a charism by which Jesus leads his Church.
The baptism we all share as Priests, Prophets, and Kings, however, is the fulfillment of that which God had indicated he would give at Sinai (making all of Israel a nation of priests). Now, through Christ, we are the nation of priests, prophets, and kings. We all have share those roles and burdens to some degree, just as we all hope to share in his inheritance.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
My guess, when someone keeps asking the same questions over and over, is that it’s all about “shopping for answers”. It goes downhill from there. He can’t afford to listen to and actually ABSORB the answers because then he’d have to find a confessional…I’ve only put two people on ignore in the time I’ve been here. One no longer posts here. The other never stops with the same old same old. I don’t read his posts, here, or at MADB. A supreme waste of time.
I dunno why bukowski hangs about.
Besides, I can’t afford to hypothesize that it’s his AGE.
My ignore list is much longer than 2, although many on it are gone & I just haven’t tidied it up lately. I guess I don’t have your forbearance.
I wish there were a forum where people were only interested in productive dialog.
God Bless.
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ChristianCath
Guest
:nope: Sorry to those of you who would like to believe this. I read the Pearl of Great Price. Read for yourself and you will find that their Jesus and ours are Totally different.
Challenge for those who believe in the Mormon Church-
Take a Bible (Any version will do) and then compare it to what the Mormon Church states who Jesus was. Please note- I did say was. Our Jesus is!!
CC
Challenge for those who believe in the Mormon Church-
Take a Bible (Any version will do) and then compare it to what the Mormon Church states who Jesus was. Please note- I did say was. Our Jesus is!!
CC
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dianaiad
Guest
Thank you for sharing that. It sounds like an incredible experience.
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dianaiad
Guest
Does this mean that the biblical story of Adam and Eve was metaphorical?
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dianaiad
Guest
Y’know, millions of people have taken your challenge, and come to the same conclusion you have; that Jesus IS…:nope: Sorry to those of you who would like to believe this. I read the Pearl of Great Price. Read for yourself and you will find that their Jesus and ours are Totally different.
Challenge for those who believe in the Mormon Church-
Take a Bible (Any version will do) and then compare it to what the Mormon Church states who Jesus was. Please note- I did say was. Our Jesus is!!
CC
And they are absolutely believers in what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say He is.
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Arandur
Guest
In part, yes. The message is true. The symbolism used to describe it need not literally have been true as described. Surely this is no surprise to you, nor any surprise to hear it from a Catholic.
Stephen168
New member
I agree the Book of Mormon doesn’t seem to have a scientific leg to stand on. I look more to the religion started by Joseph Smith personally, and compare it to Christianity. When I read first and second century writings, I don’t see a Prophet (Mormon definition), Melchizedek Priesthood, or polygamy. What I do see is the Eucharist as understood by the Orthodox and Catholic Church.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Thanks. God bless you too.My guess, when someone keeps asking the same questions over and over, is that it’s all about “shopping for answers”. It goes downhill from there. He can’t afford to listen to and actually ABSORB the answers because then he’d have to find a confessional…
Besides, I can’t afford to hypothesize that it’s his AGE.
My ignore list is much longer than 2, although many on it are gone & I just haven’t tidied it up lately. I guess I don’t have your forbearance.
I wish there were a forum where people were only interested in productive dialog.
God Bless.
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