Could the Pope allow priests to grant annulments?

[AppyCatholic]

After reading the final document from the Synod I am wondering could the document open the door for priests to grant annulments in some cases? For example could the Pope allow priests after some counseling with an individual who is civilly divorced and remarried to determine that the person’s previous “marriage” was null and thus allow said individual to receive communion and have the current marriage made valid. I believe that the legalistic manner of the annulment process is what leads many Catholics to not seek annulments. A “pastoral” approach rather than a “legalistic” approach to granting an annulment could alleviate concerns of some Catholic’s who want an annulment but do not want to be subjected to a legal process that could drag friends, family, and other’s into a legal setting they do not want to participate in. If the local priest decides he believes the marriage in question is valid or that the person can not supply a compelling reasoning for the previous marriage to be null then the process could continue on in its current form since a more strenuous process would be needed to determine if a marriage was valid or not and thus a tribunal would be more appropriate. Why would such a process not work? It seems to me that such a process would uphold Catholic doctrine on the indissolubility of marriage but also allow for people to have a more pastoral process for determining if a marriage is null or not which would seem to fit in with the message the current Pope seems to be propagating with a more pastoral and less legalistic Church.

I could see a few downfalls right out of the gate such as priests being to busy to deal with the matter in a manner suitable for the gravity of the situation and also for the sad fact that some priests just don’t care enough to give the matter the time it requires but these things seem to be workable. What are you all’s thoughts?

 

[Vanny]

Well, as a potential convert, both dh and I from Lutheranism, it would certainly remove one big barrier to wanting to become Catholic.
Right now I am praying, discerning between the RCC, EO or remaining Lutheran.

I can see both sides of it, really. On the one hand, I admire the Catholic church for standing strong against easy divorce and remarriage when most(but not all) Protestant churches have so relaxed their standards.
On the other hand, a roadblock to joining the church.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I think having a tribunal is a much more fair way to determine if a marriage can be declared null, as it does not depend on the decision of one person alone. A priest may have an unconscious bias if he knows the people well. Also, our parish priests are so overburdened now that they have a difficult time doing their regular sacramental duties, let alone take on the burden of researching canon law and discerning the validity of a marriage.

However, the tribunals take too long and the process should be speeded up and made more consistent across the entire Church. It also should be free, as it is in my Diocese.

 

[AppyCatholic]

I think having a tribunal is a much more fair way to determine if a marriage can be declared null, as it does not depend on the decision of one person alone. A priest may have an unconscious bias if he knows the people well.

Agreed and that is certainly an issue but on the side of an annulment not be granted when you think it should of been, in that event a person could proceed to tribunal. On the other hand its also possible a person could be granted an annulment when they should not have been. I guess that this could happen in the tribunal process as well however less likely.

Also, our parish priests are so overburdened now that they have a difficult time doing their regular sacramental duties, let alone take on the burden of researching canon law and discerning the validity of a marriage.

Unfortunately I agree that most priest are overburden but if this process is best shouldn’t it be allowed where possible? I would contend that you do not have to be a canon law expert to understand the reasons a marriage is valid or not.

However, the tribunals take too long and the process should be speeded up and made more consistent across the entire Church. It also should be free, as it is in my Diocese.

I agree completely.

 

[dans0622]

After reading the final document from the Synod I am wondering could the document open the door for priests to grant annulments in some cases? … What are you all’s thoughts?

Hello,

You spoke of the priest “determining” that the marriage was invalid. How would he go about making that determination?

A glaring deficiency in such a “pastoral approach” is that the other Party to the marriage is totally excluded. Marriage, at its foundation, is an agreement between two people (a contract). It doesn’t seem just to go about declaring such an agreement to be invalid when one Party is not even theoretically aware of the process and able to participate.

It’s not as though the current process/system (call it legalistic if you want) was invented for the purpose of making things difficult for the people. Is it perfect? No. Can it malfunction? Certainly, since it always depends on fallen human beings. Is it based on centuries of experience and able to protect fundamental values? Yes.

As far as speed–for the sake of perspective, marriage preparation is often mandated to take longer than the nullity process. Many places require at least a 6 month window for preparation. The nullity process can be completed in less time.

Dan

 

[AppyCatholic]

Hello,

You spoke of the priest “determining” that the marriage was invalid. How would he go about making that determination?

Much in the same way a tribunal would make the determination. You can tell by a person by getting to know them and talking about a situation. Is it perfect? No but a priest would have the ability to hand off to a tribunal if the circumstances did not lead to be able to make a determination on his own.

A glaring deficiency in such a “pastoral approach” is that the other Party to the marriage is totally excluded. Marriage, at its foundation, is an agreement between two people (a contract). It doesn’t seem just to go about declaring such an agreement to be invalid when one Party is not even theoretically aware of the process and able to participate.

In the tribunal process it is not required that the other party participate. At least not to my knowledge. I do not see the difference here.

It’s not as though the current process/system (call it legalistic if you want) was invented for the purpose of making things difficult for the people. Is it perfect? No. Can it malfunction? Certainly, since it always depends on fallen human beings. Is it based on centuries of experience and able to protect fundamental values? Yes.

As far as speed–for the sake of perspective, marriage preparation is often mandated to take longer than the nullity process. Many places require at least a 6 month window for preparation. The nullity process can be completed in less time.

Dan

I agree it was not made for the purpose of being difficult but I will say this as someone who has testified in court many times. Its not fun to offer ones testimony in a courtroom (which is basically what is happening in the tribunal process) and having friends, family, and others be put through that process can be very uncomfortable for everyone involved. It maybe even possible that the anxiety, having to take off work, or the shear inconvenience of the matter would prevent someone from participating in the process. I am of the the opinion that a better way to determine if a marriage is valid or not has to exist. Maybe the idea I have proposed is not the best but the current one has many draw backs.

 

[Corki]

After reading the final document from the Synod I am wondering could the document open the door for priests to grant annulments in some cases? For example could the Pope allow priests after some counseling with an individual who is civilly divorced and remarried to determine that the person’s previous “marriage” was null and thus allow said individual to receive communion and have the current marriage made valid. I believe that the legalistic manner of the annulment process is what leads many Catholics to not seek annulments. A “pastoral” approach rather than a “legalistic” approach to granting an annulment could alleviate concerns of some Catholic’s who want an annulment but do not want to be subjected to a legal process that could drag friends, family, and other’s into a legal setting they do not want to participate in. If the local priest decides he believes the marriage in question is valid or that the person can not supply a compelling reasoning for the previous marriage to be null then the process could continue on in its current form since a more strenuous process would be needed to determine if a marriage was valid or not and thus a tribunal would be more appropriate. Why would such a process not work? It seems to me that such a process would uphold Catholic doctrine on the indissolubility of marriage but also allow for people to have a more pastoral process for determining if a marriage is null or not which would seem to fit in with the message the current Pope seems to be propagating with a more pastoral and less legalistic Church.

I could see a few downfalls right out of the gate such as priests being to busy to deal with the matter in a manner suitable for the gravity of the situation and also for the sad fact that some priests just don’t care enough to give the matter the time it requires but these things seem to be workable. What are you all’s thoughts?

Two other points:

The biggest obstacle (outside of the legal ones) is the lack of participation of the other spouse. More often than not, the first spouse is not in the same parish. That person’s (name removed by moderator)ut is often critical in determining if the first marriage was valid or not. Often the other spouse is the wronged spouse and it would be very unjust to leave him/her out of the process. If the process were parish based, either the parish staff or the petitioning spouse would have to track down the first spouse and provide them with the opportunity to participate. As it works now, the tribunal does that part.

The other issue is that the current tribunal process involves a defender of the bond. Having a single person, the pastor, be both the defender and judge is problematic.

Now, I could see a provision to delegate the decision to the pastor when you are dealing with lack of form cases. Those are primarily paper-work cases and there is no automatic defense of the bond.

 

[AppyCatholic]

Two other points:

The biggest obstacle (outside of the legal ones) is the lack of participation of the other spouse. More often than not, the first spouse is not in the same parish. That person’s (name removed by moderator)ut is often critical in determining if the first marriage was valid or not. Often the other spouse is the wronged spouse and it would be very unjust to leave him/her out of the process. If the process were parish based, either the parish staff or the petitioning spouse would have to track down the first spouse and provide them with the opportunity to participate. As it works now, the tribunal does that part.

I said in my above post to my knowledge the spouse in question does not have to participate in the process for an annulment to be granted. They are notified but what about cases where the other spouse is not even Catholic and does not care about the annulment process or if it is granted or not?

The other issue is that the current tribunal process involves a defender of the bond. Having a single person, the pastor, be both the defender and judge is problematic.

Now, I could see a provision to delegate the decision to the pastor when you are dealing with lack of form cases. Those are primarily paper-work cases and there is no automatic defense of the bond.

I agree with what you are saying here. I am not saying this would be an end all be all one size fits all solution but that it could work in some situations and passed on to a tribunal when a priest feels its necessary.

Thank you all for your replies.

 

[AppyCatholic]

Obviously some cases are more complex than others. Some can be clear cut, some could be very tough to make a determination and some could be somewhere in the middle. The priest could act as a buffer to weed out some of the easier determinations.

 

[Corki]

I said in my above post to my knowledge the spouse in question does not have to participate in the process for an annulment to be granted. They are notified but what about cases where the other spouse is not even Catholic and does not care about the annulment process or if it is granted or not?

The other spouse does not have to participate but he/she has to be given the opportunity to participate. Whether he/she is Catholic is irrelevant. The final determination affects both spouses and both spouses have the right to be involved if they choose. If he/she does not choose to participate, that’s fine, but it’s not up to the other spouse or even the priest to take that right away without asking.

I agree with what you are saying here. I am not saying this would be an end all be all one size fits all solution but that it could work in some situations and passed on to a tribunal when a priest feels its necessary.

I might work in some cases. But in others, the priest may not find out that their is a complicated or disputed issue until he is well into the investigation.

I guess my question is, how is this more pastoral? Are you imagining that it would be faster for a pastor to do the investigations himself than the tribunal? I am not sure that’s usually the case. For one thing, pastors are, as you noted, quite busy and would have a limited amount of time to devote to marriage investigations. Also, the tribunal employees are experts at the process and would, hopefully, be more efficient.

Or are you proposing that a longer process is ok but the benefit is in keeping the process personal between the couple and their pastor rather than having “strangers” work the cases?

I think a priest could well be a judge in a marriage nullity petition. But it’s not the “judging” part that takes time and effort. It’s all of the record gathering and investigation that goes on “up front” and that would still be happening.

I am not saying the process would not work. I just don’t see how it would be an improvement - at least for the vast majority of cases outside of lack of form ones.

 

[AppyCatholic]

Or are you proposing that a longer process is ok but the benefit is in keeping the process personal between the couple and their pastor rather than having “strangers” work the cases?

Bingo my friend! I am saying that it could be possible people would be willing to go through a longer process than a possibly more stressful process. It would be more pastoral in that you have a priest that is looking at it from a more pastoral stand point than a tribunal of people that you have no personal relationship with and cannot possibly connect with the person/persons asking for the annulment.

 

[TimothyH]

Jesus was clear that no man should separate what God put together. This was not ambiguous.

An annulment has to come from the Church on God’s behalf, not from Father Joe or Deacon Bill.

 

[AppyCatholic]

Jesus was clear that no man should separate what God put together. This was not ambiguous.

An annulment has to come from the Church on God’s behalf, not from Father Joe or Deacon Bill.

I fail to see the difference between a priest in good standing with the church and a tribunal that is in good standing with the church. Yeah the tribunal has more people. Why does a tribunal have more of an ability to speak for the church than a priest?

 

[peter26]

The main problems I see with this are

1. Most priests are very short of time and this could end up slowing down the process not speeding it up, or else resulting in a priest having to cut back his other important duties. Less confession time each week for instance.
2. Not all priests are experts in canon law. My priest could probably handle this. Not all could. Law takes a certain way of thinking that not everyone has. As St. Paul said, people are given different fruits of the Spirit.
3. We all know that there are priests who are not faithful to the teachings of the Church and this would allow such priests to issue annulments on tap (or to refuse them to everyone) based on their personal views. Probably better to either have a panel of several people or a person with more proven loyalty to the Church’s teachings like a bishop making the call.

 

[pianistclare]

I fail to see the difference between a priest in good standing with the church and a tribunal that is in good standing with the church. Yeah the tribunal has more people. Why does a tribunal have more of an ability to speak for the church than a priest?

Not all priests are canon lawyers.

People deserve trained professionals examining their situation. Objectively.
There’s a reason why Judges remove themselves from proceedings involving persons they know.

 

[AppyCatholic]

Not all priests are canon lawyers.

People deserve trained professionals examining their situation. Objectively.
There’s a reason why Judges remove themselves from proceedings involving persons they know.

That’s an excellent point assuming that the tribunal is a panel of canon lawyers. I do not think that is very common though. I would contend that a good pastor with some basic knowledge of canon law as it pertains to marriage could make a determination in some cases. Cases that are complex a tribunal would be needed. If a particular case was to complex for a priest and thus him being unable to render a reason decision it could be passed on to a tribunal.

As for a judge removing himself from a proceeding I can understand that from a legal stand point but this is a matter of souls. Do you suggest that a priest remove themselves from a situation for other sins? Should you not go to a confessor that knows you? I do not think you can apply that to the church. The church is supposed to embrace its flock not turn away from them. A priest would not turn from you over a particular sin because they are not impartial. Thats kind of my point is the local priest knows the persons or persons better than the tribunal ever could and thus has a better insight to determining what was going on at the time of the previous marriage and if it was valid. Could you imagine going into a confessional and being told that another priest should hear your confession because the priest you are confessing to knows you?

 

[Neofight]

Jesus was clear that no man should separate what God put together. This was not ambiguous.

An annulment has to come from the Church on God’s behalf, not from Father Joe or Deacon Bill.

That might be like saying a priest cannot offer absolution, but only the Church can.

 

[Neofight]

Not all priests are canon lawyers.

Excellent point!

However many lay Catholics seem to think they are, and that somehow the ability to cut and paste from the code makes them qualified canon lawyers.

 

[dans0622]

That’s an excellent point assuming that the tribunal is a panel of canon lawyers. …

As for a judge removing himself from a proceeding I can understand that from a legal stand point but this is a matter of souls. Do you suggest that a priest remove themselves from a situation for other sins? …

1. Every person who judges a marriage case is required by law to have a degree in canon law.
2. Marriage is (among other things) a legal agreement between the man and the woman. It’s a legally binding contract. I think it is inappropriate to compare a marriage case to “other sins.” What does sin have to do with whether or not a person who appeared to marry actually did?

Dan

 

[AppyCatholic]

1. Every person who judges a marriage case is required by law to have a degree in canon law.
2. Marriage is (among other things) a legal agreement between the man and the woman. It’s a legally binding contract. I think it is inappropriate to compare a marriage case to “other sins.” What does sin have to do with whether or not a person who appeared to marry actually did?

Dan

That’s interesting and something I was not aware of. Does that apply to every person in the tribunal?

To your second point what makes marriage a legal matter? I understand it is to the government just curious why the church would view a sacrament as a legal issue. That in itself is a problem to me is it’s a legal issue apparently not a pastoral issue. Also I had a remarried Catholic in mind when I said other sin