Could the Pope technically do away with OF right now?

[Louie1983]

I believe the Pope could do away with OF, but I think a gradual phasing out would be a better strategy.

I agree here and i think it has already started!

Think about it, The Pope has allowed more general use of the tridentine mass, he has lifted the excommunication of the sspx priests (although they are not in full communion with the church just yet). I think the plan is to allow the tridentine mass to grow once again as the main form of the mass. Give it 20,30,40 years and you’ll see it become a lot stronger than it is today.

 

[thunderballs75]

I agree here and i think it has already started!

Think about it, The Pope has allowed more general use of the tridentine mass, he has lifted the excommunication of the sspx priests (although they are not in full communion with the church just yet). I think the plan is to allow the tridentine mass to grow once again as the main form of the mass. Give it 20,30,40 years and you’ll see it become a lot stronger than it is today.

I agree. I was just wondering if technically he could throw it all in the dumpster.

 

[ProVobis]

What if he was in a bad mood, and did away with the EF for all eternity?

He can do one as easily as the other, right? Or have you thought about that?

Seriously, I think His Holiness is moving very carefully and pastorally in such a way as to not spook the herd.

I don’t see why he wouldn’t want to do away with all Orthodox Masses first.

Seriously, unless there is any pastoral value in it, I don’t see why the Pope would do away with any rite or form. As long as there are priests to say it, let them do their thing. Can’t deny Catholics of their gift from God.

 

[SenorSalsa]

It should be noted that although he could make it illicit to say, even the Pope could not make the OF invalid.

I seem to recall there being some quote out there that says effectively if it was valid then, it is valid now; if it is invalid now, it was invalid then.

In other words, for the Pope to say that the OF is invalid would be to say that all the Masses prayed in that form were ineffective, and that none of the holy men and women after Vaican II received the Body or Blood of Christ.

So he could supress it, but not erase it

 

[ProVobis]

So he could supress it…

In my opinion, this would show maliciousness on the part of the Pope, not to mention abuse of power.

 

[PJM]

=Louie1983;5362734]I agree here and i think it has already started!

Think about it, The Pope has allowed more general use of the tridentine mass, he has lifted the excommunication of the sspx priests (although they are not in full communion with the church just yet). I think the plan is to allow the tridentine mass to grow once again as the main form of the mass. Give it 20,30,40 years and you’ll see it become a lot stronger than it is today.

***The OOP question cannot actually be answered as it reflects a lack of understanding of how the Church actually operates and completes God’s Mission. If the question was only about the power of the Pope; then the answer would be YES.

Because the question of doing away with what should at least be our Sacred Liturgy, from a practical stand point, changes and modifications would be done By our Supreme Pontiff, in Communion with the Ordianry Magistrium. Not by himself.

Something of this magnitude would not be done by the Pontiff alone for fear of it being rejected [as was the case in post Vatican II; not LAW, but only perceived spirit] so care will be taken to God Willing build a broader base of support.

Certainly I agree that more than any other issue, the NO Mass has contributed to huge numbers of LOST souls, and done little if anything to promote personal salvation through the proper practice and promotion of the Blessed Sacraments.***

Love and prayers,

 

[thunderballs75]

It should be noted that although he could make it illicit to say, even the Pope could not make the OF invalid.

I seem to recall there being some quote out there that says effectively if it was valid then, it is valid now; if it is invalid now, it was invalid then.

In other words, for the Pope to say that the OF is invalid would be to say that all the Masses prayed in that form were ineffective, and that none of the holy men and women after Vaican II received the Body or Blood of Christ.

So he could supress it, but not erase it

Ah! That is a good point! I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[SkinnyJay]

Anybody know of a good place to start researching the different forms of Mass? I have been pretty ignorant in this area and would like to learn what I can about it. Thanks.

 

[bpbasilphx]

but to answer your question, technically Paul VI effectively “did away” with the Mass of the Ages, so yes, the Pope has the lawful authority to do so.

The Tridentine Mass in any of its recensions is no more the “mass of the ages” than any other authorized Liturgy of the Church.

 

[SkinnyJay]

Anybody know of a good place to start researching the different forms of Mass? I have been pretty ignorant in this area and would like to learn what I can about it. Thanks.

Found an article that helped me understand this. For those like me, I found it here:

Extraordinary Form 101
A Beginner’s Guide to the Old Latin Mass
By Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

 

[Jacafamala]

What a kicker… Do you really think a contemporary Pope and contemporary Bishops have so much authoritative pull any longer? They don’t. That went out the window post VII. Pun intended. Hardly anyone would listen to them nowadays, were such a thing to happen, other than traddies. The Liberals would start their own church with the Liberal Bishops blessings. Maybe the Conservatives would listen, they’re supposed to follow the Pope blindly, but they’d probably all die of heart attacks instead.

 

[malphono]

It should be noted that although he could make it illicit to say, even the Pope could not make the OF invalid.

I seem to recall there being some quote out there that says effectively if it was valid then, it is valid now; if it is invalid now, it was invalid then.

In other words, for the Pope to say that the OF is invalid would be to say that all the Masses prayed in that form were ineffective, and that none of the holy men and women after Vaican II received the Body or Blood of Christ.

So he could supress it, but not erase it

When one thinks about it, suppression and erasure end up to be the same thing. It would really have nothing to do with the validity of Masses already offered.

As I alluded to in another thread in this forum, suppressing the OF would be easier than suppressing an ancient recension that was in continuous usage: the OF is some 40 years old. That’s hardly a drop in the bucket, even against the Tridentine standard of the “200 year rule” under which a number of Western variants were suppressed precisely because they were either (a) not in continuous use for that long (e.g. Gothic & Sarum), or (b) had emerged within that period (e.g. several local German variants). Those in (a) were suppressed due to of lack of continuity, but even Trent made no claim that any usage in either (a) or (b) were not valid at the time they were offered.

Still, though, suppression of the OF would no doubt elicit highly vocal (read: loud) opposition from its proponents, who prefer its less-structured approach.