Could two Catholics marry in an outdoor, open air Catholic Chapel?

  • Thread starter Thread starter anp1215
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anp1215

Guest
I asked this question on an old thread, but it was never addressed, so I thought I’d try again.

For example, the one at the Black Madonna Shrine
romeofthewest.com/2005/10/photos-of-black-madonna-shrine.html
photos towards the bottom

The Black Madonna Shrine near St. Louis, Missouri has on its grounds what the photographer refers to as a “forest chapel,” you can see and read more about it via the link above.

I know that typically two Catholics are not allowed to have a wedding outside. When I came upon these photos, it made me wonder if there would be an exception if the wedding occurred at a place like this. This is only hypothetical, I’m already married 🙂

By the way, that whole website is great, beautiful photos of churches in Missouri, check it out!
Thanks!
 
Code of Canon Law

Can. 1115 Marriages are to be celebrated in a parish where either of the contracting parties has a domicile, quasidomicile, or month long residence or, if it concerns transients, in the parish where they actually reside. With the permission of the proper ordinary or proper pastor, marriages can be celebrated elsewhere.

🙂
 
I would think one would have to ask their bishop and the brothers that oversee the shrine if its possible to have a wedding in their forest chapel. It could be possible, but I wouldn’t be surprised the answer would be a “no”, since the grottos seem to be more for private devotions and masses are scheduled in a chapel elsewhere on their property.
 
You can have one in the grotto in Portland (The National Shrine of our Sorrowful Mother) in Oregon. Mass is celebrated there each Sunday (weather permitting) May-Sept for the local parish. There is also a church building just to the left.

For wedding information see: thegrotto.org/about-us/weddings/
 
JM3 said:
Can. 1115 Marriages are to be celebrated in a parish where either of the contracting parties has a domicile, quasidomicile, or month long residence or, if it concerns transients, in the parish where they actually reside. With the permission of the proper ordinary or proper pastor, marriages can be celebrated elsewhere.
Click to expand...
As the first sentence of this canon prescribes marriages are to take place in the parish where one of the spouses has a domicile or a quasi-domicile. If they lack both they must have resided in the parish for at least one month. If they live a nomadic life they marry in the parish where they currently reside. The second sentence refers to permission being given to celebrate the marriage in a parish different from the one of domicile, quasi-domicile, or place or residence. It is not concerned with giving permission to celebrate a wedding in the outdoors.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
As the first sentence of this canon prescribes marriages are to take place in the parish where one of the spouses has a domicile or a quasi-domicile. If they lack both they must have resided in the parish for at least one month. If they live a nomadic life they marry in the parish where they currently reside. The second sentence refers to permission being given to celebrate the marriage in a parish different from the one of domicile, quasi-domicile, or place or residence. It is not concerned with giving permission to celebrate a wedding in the outdoors.
Click to expand...
It was the right answer, just not the right canon.

Can. 1118 §1. A marriage between Catholics or between a Catholic party and a non-Catholic baptized party is to be celebrated in a parish church. It can be celebrated in another church or oratory with the permission of the local ordinary or pastor.

§2. The local ordinary can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.

It has to be celebrated “in a parish church.” Other places, even designated shrines, and even chapels (seminary chapels, university chapels, etc), require the permission of the local bishop.
 
anp1215 said:
I asked this question on an old thread, but it was never addressed, so I thought I’d try again.

For example, the one at the Black Madonna Shrine
romeofthewest.com/2005/10/photos-of-black-madonna-shrine.html
photos towards the bottom

The Black Madonna Shrine near St. Louis, Missouri has on its grounds what the photographer refers to as a “forest chapel,” you can see and read more about it via the link above.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
of course, as long as it is a Catholic church, parish, or oratory. There are many such regional shrines, with out door chapels where Mass is regularly celebrated, very common where the shrine includes a Lourdes grotto, for instance. The problem arises because not all such shrines are parish Churches, and a wedding is generally done in the parish church of one of the spouses. So the necessary permissions would have to be sought and obtained, and the marriage entered into the sacramental record of the parish whose pastor is overseeing their marriage preparation.
 
puzzleannie said:
of course, as long as it is a Catholic church, parish, or oratory. There are many such regional shrines, with out door chapels where Mass is regularly celebrated, very common where the shrine includes a Lourdes grotto, for instance. The problem arises because not all such shrines are parish Churches, and a wedding is generally done in the parish church of one of the spouses. So the necessary permissions would have to be sought and obtained, and the marriage entered into the sacramental record of the parish whose pastor is overseeing their marriage preparation.
Click to expand...
Can you tell me of any others so that I can look them up? I am interested in these outdoor chapels, this was the first one I heard of, and I really like them.

Thanks to everyone who answered!
 
Matthew_Holford said:
What would be considered “another suitable place”?
Click to expand...
I know this wasn’t addressed to me and I’m sure Fr. will provide a better answer, but I would imagine that’s just left to the local ordinary’s discretion.
 
I don’t get the penchant these days for outdoor weddings. Here is a picture from the last one I attended (non-Catholic FYI). Take note of the sign. It says: Warning Natural habitat for rattlesnakes.
 
My niece (not a a Catholic) was married outside, in a torrential downpour, at the bottom of a muddy slope. She was ‘radiant’ (as my wife describes it), but I’m not sure of those attending in the raing. Her brothers had to help all the ladies up and down the hill to the creek and only 20% fell in the mud. I’m not really sold on outdoor weddings.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
What would be considered “another suitable place”?
Click to expand...
That’s up to the bishop’s prudent discretion.

The point is that without the bishop’s permission, the marriage ceremony cannot occur there, and at the same time, with the bishop’s permission, it’s completely legitimate.
 
FrDavid96 said:
That’s up to the bishop’s prudent discretion.

The point is that without the bishop’s permission, the marriage ceremony cannot occur there, and at the same time, with the bishop’s permission, it’s completely legitimate.
Click to expand...
Do some bishops sometimes grant permission for a wedding to take place in the outdoors?
 
Matthew_Holford said:
Do some bishops sometimes grant permission for a wedding to take place in the outdoors?
Click to expand...
Yes.

In certain places in the US it’s quite common; while in others it’s very rare or even never allowed.

Keep in mind that because it’s up to the bishop, it can and does vary from diocese to diocese, and even from one bishop to the next (as in successor); therefore practical application of the canon will vary greatly.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Yes.

In certain places in the US it’s quite common; while in others it’s very rare or even never allowed.

Keep in mind that because it’s up to the bishop, it can and does vary from diocese to diocese, and even from one bishop to the next (as in successor); therefore practical application of the canon will vary greatly.
Click to expand...
I know sometimes that the Church will “canonise” civil law if it’s not contrary to Church law. In my country the civil law says all weddings must be in a building; they can’t be outside. Would the Church accept this restriction? I know the Catholic Church in England accepts the civil law requirement that all marriages must celebrated be between the hours 8 am and 6 pm.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
I know sometimes that the Church will “canonise” civil law if it’s not contrary to Church law. In my country the civil law says all weddings must be in a building; they can’t be outside. Would the Church accept this restriction? I know the Catholic Church in England accepts the civil law requirement that all marriages must celebrated be between the hours 8 am and 6 pm.
Click to expand...
In that case (civil law says a wedding cannot be outside or must be within certain hours), the Church would abide by that, since the Church does say that a wedding must also conform to civil law.

Of course, for this discussion, let’s leave out the extraordinary circumstances like time of persecution or war, or stranded on a desert island, etc.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
I know sometimes that the Church will “canonise” civil law if it’s not contrary to Church law. In my country the civil law says all weddings must be in a building; they can’t be outside. Would the Church accept this restriction? I know the Catholic Church in England accepts the civil law requirement that all marriages must celebrated be between the hours 8 am and 6 pm.
Click to expand...
The Church will not go against civil law. The Church is not out to create confusion and hardship for people. In countries where religious ministers are not given the authority to perform civil marriages, the Church even allows for couples to get civil marriage first before getting married in Church. Oftentimes it happens on the same day (they go to city hall first thing in the morning, then proceed to church). As long as the government doesn’t impose laws that totally outlaws the Sacrament, the Church will abide.
 
JHow said:
I don’t get the penchant these days for outdoor weddings. Here is a picture from the last one I attended (non-Catholic FYI). Take note of the sign. It says: Warning Natural habitat for rattlesnakes.
Click to expand...
I don’t get it either. I have never in my life seriously desired to be married outside. It’s just way too risky. I don’t think I’ve ever even been to one, though I know that they are increasingly popular.
 
The only licit outdoor Catholic wedding I’ve ever heard report of was my daughter’s.

We are a small, Byzantine Catholic parish, undr 100 families.

For reasons that predate my involvement with the parish, we have a second consecrated altar in the patio outside.

The expected crowd for the wedding was more than the church could hold.

Our solution was to set up outside. We actually hung a cloth Iconostasis, and we brought out our portable icons, and moved out the block that holds the cross and cherubicon, too.

It worked so well that we now do this each year for Pascha (Ester).

Note, though, that this was using existing parish facilities, including our shine to the Theotokos, to accommodate a need; it was not about having an outdoor wedding. Both our Bisho and the local RC bishop were involved at various points (there was a change of ritual for them leading to the wedding, and our priest works for the RC diocese, including the desk for change of ritual church. . .

As a separate matter, a church in South Lake Tahoe used to be laid out in the traditional cross, but with glass side walls which could be opened to outdoor seating for the larger summer crowds.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top