Could women ever be ordained as Deacons?

  • Thread starter Thread starter catechizeme
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

catechizeme

Guest
Does the infallible teaching of the Church that states only men may be ordained as priests refer only to the priesthood, or to “ordination”?

Does this teaching also forever prohibit the ordination of women as Deacons?
 
Does the infallible teaching of the Church that states only men may be ordained as priests refer only to the priesthood, or to “ordination”?

Does this teaching also forever prohibit the ordination of women as Deacons?
Yes it does.

While there was a role of deaconess in some of the ancient Churches, a deaconess is not a female deacon. The roles were different and the deacon is ordained to Holy Orders which only a male can be, a deaconess was consecrated.
 
Does the infallible teaching of the Church that states only men may be ordained as priests refer only to the priesthood, or to “ordination”?
It refers to the reception of Holy Order.
Does this teaching also forever prohibit the ordination of women as Deacons?
Yes.

Women cannot receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders-- which includes the diaconate.
 
Does the infallible teaching of the Church that states only men may be ordained as priests refer only to the priesthood, or to “ordination”?

Does this teaching also forever prohibit the ordination of women as Deacons?
It was originally addressing the Priesthood. However a statement came out about a year later on it’s application also to the Deaconate.
 
It was originally addressing the Priesthood. However a statement came out about a year later on it’s application also to the Deaconate.
You didn’t expect to be able to just throw that out there without some sort of documentation, did you?
 
Yes it does.

While there was a role of deaconess in some of the ancient Churches, a deaconess is not a female deacon. The roles were different and the deacon is ordained to Holy Orders which only a male can be, a deaconess was consecrated.
Can you provide a source that explains deaconesses were consecrated in the early Church, and not ordained?

A nun at our school today said she hoped one day the Church would recognize the contributions women can make and allow them to be Deacons. She cited the Acts of the Apostles as proof there were Deaconesses in the “early Church”. I’d like to research this and provide her (and our teachers) with clarification both on the context of Acts and the Church post-Acts in regard to Deaconesses.

Thank you!
 
According to Wikipedia (see here):

The official position of the Roman Catholic Church, as expressed in the current canon law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is that: “Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination.”[3] Insofar as priestly and episcopal ordination are concerned, the Church teaches that this requirement is a matter of divine law, and thus doctrinal.[4] The requirement that only males can receive ordination to the permanent diaconate has not been promulgated as doctrinal by the Church’s magisterium, though it is clearly at least a requirement according to canon law.[5][6]

The ordination of females to the diaconate is a matter of some controversy among Roman Catholic historians and theologians. At issue are two distinct but interrelated questions: whether some deaconesses in the early Church received true sacramental ordination, or whether all were merely so called for functional or honorific purposes; and, whether the prohibition against ordaining women to the diaconate is also a matter of unchangeable divine law, or potentially changeable ecclesiastical law. If some deaconesses did receive true sacramental ordination, then the current prohibition would be ecclesiastical rather than divine law. If not, then it could be either ecclesiastical or divine.

It can be verified that the term deaconesses was employed in antiquity; the word, like “deacon,” comes from the Greek word diakonos (διάκονος), meaning “one who serves.” Deaconesses mainly assisted the priest in receiving women into the Church for baptism by full immersion (which is still practiced by the Eastern Catholic Churches and by some parishes in the Western or Latin rite as well), and did not perform any of the duties associated with male deacons. In this sense “deaconess” implied a title of honour and respect. Whether or not “deaconess” in some instances implied sacramental ordination is disputed.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith wrote in 1977 that the historical nature of deaconesses was “a question that must be taken up fully by direct study of the texts, without preconceived ideas.”[24] The position that deaconesses received true sacramental ordination (in certain times and places) is given by Roger Gryson,[25] and the position that deaconesses never received true sacramental ordination is given by Aimé Georges Martimort.[26] Both Gryson and Martimort argued from the same historical evidence, which is mixed. For example, the ecumenical First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) stated that deaconesses: “do not receive any imposition of hands, so that they are in all respects to be numbered among the laity.”[27] However, 126 years later, the ecumenical Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451) decreed: “A woman shall not receive the laying on of hands as a deaconess under forty years of age, and then only after searching examination.”[28] Martimort argues that the “laying on of hands” in the latter case referred only to a special blessing. Against this, “Gryson argues that the use of the verb cheirotonein and of the substantive cheirothesia clearly indicate that deaconesses were ordained by the laying on of hands.”[29]
 
Can you provide a source that explains deaconesses were consecrated in the early Church, and not ordained?

A nun at our school today said she hoped one day the Church would recognize the contributions women can make and allow them to be Deacons. She cited the Acts of the Apostles as proof there were Deaconesses in the “early Church”. I’d like to research this and provide her (and our teachers) with clarification both on the context of Acts and the Church post-Acts in regard to Deaconesses.

Thank you!
If you go to this thead (Do Coptic Catholics have female Deacons) you will see a discussion on this. The 17th post (here is a link 17 ) covers this and has a link that compares the prayer used in the ordination of a Deacon and the one used in the consecration of a Deaconess.

This nun has fallen prey to the English language on the way it ascribes gender to a job title. While one might look at the word deaconess and think that it is just describing a deacon that is a female this is incorrect. A Deaconess was a whole thing on its own.

Deaconesses were in the Church prior to the uncloistered nun and filled a role that is done today by active nuns.
 
Do you have a source for this?
No, but it was from one of the Congregations stating that there was no historical evidence that “Deaconesses” in the early Church were Ordained to Holy Orders as clerics.
 
Theological Commission Study Dismisses Idea of Deaconesses

(VATICAN CITY) The International Theological Commission announced that one of its recent documents excludes the possibility of the ordination of women to the diaconate.

In the statement, Father Georges Cottier, general secretary of the Commission, responded to questions about the study of the diaconate.

Father Cottier stated that the Commission’s study “tends to support the exclusion” of ordaining women to the diaconate.

The Commission of well-known theologians voted to approve the document during its September 30-October 4 plenary assembly in the Vatican. The Commission is coordinated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the body that initially requested the study.

The statement noted that the Commission does not have the same authority as the Magisterium, but that the panel “presented two important indications” that emerged from the study.

"The Commission observed that the deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the early Church cannot simply be assimilated to ordained deacons", the statement said. “In support of this conclusion, Father Cottier noted that both the rite of institution and the functions exercised by deaconesses distinguished them from ordained deacons”.

In his 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II wrote “that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful”.

The Vatican statement said: “The Commission’s reaffirmation of this teaching arose from a careful study of the ecclesial tradition, of the documents of the Second Vatican Council, and of the post-conciliar Magisterium of the Church”.

The International Theological Commission devoted more than five years of research to the topic of the history and theology of the diaconate before approving the text of its study.
 
When I was in discernment for the Diaconate, the vocation director gave a class on the history of Deacons.

From what I remember, the deaconess, as mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, were the wives of deacons. Their main function was preparing the dead bodies of females for burial.

Jim
 
St. Paul writing to the Christian congregation at Galatia clearly indicates that it is possible. The current attitude of the power structure is that they will not allow it.

Matthew
 
St. Paul writing to the Christian congregation at Galatia clearly indicates that it is possible. The current attitude of the power structure is that they will not allow it.

Matthew
Only if you are not Catholic and deny the incarnation of God as Jesus creating the Church. Sure. Heck if I wanted to I could make myself a priest, but then I would have to deny Christ and follow my own personal desires above fidelity to God.

We should seek to not encourage dissent and seek emulate Christ in obedience and support for His Church. The desire for female deacons arises as a rejection to that and should never be encouraged.

Seek to follow Christ and His example of fidelity unto death. He is the center of our faith and to honor the ordination of men honors Christ who ordained men to serve us. Honoring the Episcopate, Priesthood and Deaconate honors Christ. To try and change this to our own style or cultural desires, is to put ourselves above God and to deny His decision to make the Church as it was and is.

God Bless
Scylla
 
St. Paul writing to the Christian congregation at Galatia clearly indicates that it is possible. The current attitude of the power structure is that they will not allow it.

Matthew
No, St Paul is speaking of the ministry of the Deaconess. As has been stated in this thread and in many others on this forum a Deaconess is not a female Deacon. It is a separate ministry that had its own consecration that, while it resembles that of a Deacon, was different.

A Deaconess does not receive Holy Orders and no where does St Paul state that they do.

You also forget that St Paul says that women shouldn’t speak in Church nor should they teach or have authority over men. So seems you have some contradictions to work though.
 
In chapter 3 Paul is talking about the effects the Torah had on mankind. Among other things the law makes distinctions between various persons and for various reasons. Verse 28 clearly states that these distinctions, including (but not limited to) nationality, state of servitude, and sex are no longer applicable because the law has been overridden. Frequent threads on this forum have sited the reason for denying holy orders to women as coming from the fact that neither Jesus nor the early church did it. This is the “they didn’t do it before, therefore it must be wrong to do it” argument. I prefer the notion that this is simply an idea whose time has not yet come. Paul’s letter to the church at Galatia surely allows for it even if social pressures of the time prohibited it. Currently the back door is open in the fact that married men are ordained ONLY if the wife wants the man to be ordained. This is the church’s way of acknowledging both the contribution of the wife to the ministry and the unity existing in matrimony. The wife as united to the husband is “ordained” along with the husband. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. If the church truly believes that female deacons are a theological impossibility, we would not ordain married men at all.

Matthew
 
Currently the back door is open in the fact that married men are ordained ONLY if the wife wants the man to be ordained. This is the church’s way of acknowledging both the contribution of the wife to the ministry and the unity existing in matrimony. The wife as united to the husband is “ordained” along with the husband. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. If the church truly believes that female deacons are a theological impossibility, we would not ordain married men at all.
This is incorrect, in no way can you say that the wife is “ordained”. The reason the wife’s acceptance is sought is to honor the sacrament of Marriage that preceded the Ordination.

Woman have never received Holy Orders and they can not, not only because Jesus didn’t do it, which should be answer enough, but also because of the role of the ministerial priesthood theologically.

No only that but as Catholics we owe obedience to the Pope and Pope John Paul II ruled on this and went as far as stating in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis the following (bold emphasis added);
  1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

So to argue against this is to be in disobedience to the Pope and the Church.
 
Dave, I’m sorry but they can’t have it both ways. If they NEED the consent of the wife because of the UNITY of matrimony, they CAN’T say they are NOT ORDAINING in some fashion the wife. If you want to use the argument that Jesus didn’t ordain women, then you must allow that he didn’t ordain Germans, Poles, English, Spanish and Italians, all of which have not only been ordained but have risen to the office of bishop of Rome. These are manifestly spurious arguments and should have no weight. I can’t imagine that the popes who have put such sentiments to paper weren’t intelligent enough to see it. The fact that it is contradictory to the letter to the Galatians is further proof of lack of validity.

Matthew
 
The early church actually had deacons and deaconesses according to one of my favorite catholic books; The Catholic Faith Handbook for Youth.

Deaconesses assisted women in baptisms. Thats all I can remember… I’ll have to peruse the text again to find the tidbit about this subject.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top