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Dancelittleewok
Guest
Did Mary have the free will to say no to bear Our Savior as the angel commanded?
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BeeSweet
Guest
I’m sure she could have, but I doubt God would have chosen her if she were the sort to do so!!
Thankfully she was around when she was needed!
Thankfully she was around when she was needed!
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Thal59
Guest
If a devilworshipper entered your home and demanded that you plunge a butcher knife into the heart of your lover, you are free to say yes… but would you? Most likely not. Your love for your partner and your abhorrance of evil would prevent you.
Mary could have said No… but her love for God, manifest in obedience, and her enmity towards displeasing God prevented her.
Thal59
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AnthonyM2
Guest
I agree with the previous posts. However, just wanted to point out that I don’t think the angel Gabriel “commanded” Mary but merely announced that she would give birth to the saviour.
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
This is one more thing makes Mary so special. You bet she could have said no. She had free will just like we all do. However, her yes was an obedient yes. Her obedience brought the Savior to the world. Some people believe that Mary was just an “incubator” for Our Lord and that, had she said no, God would have just found someone else to do the job. But I do not think so. The whole reason we needed a Savior was because of the disobedience of mankind, starting with Adam and Eve. It does not sound reasonable to me that if Mary had said “no” God would have said “Oh, OK, sorry to have bothered you…” and gone on to the next virgin.
Did God know she would say yes? Well, of course, He knows everything. But His knowledge of that act of obedience ahead of time doesn’t minimize the importance of her obedience.
That’s my :twocents: anyway!
Did God know she would say yes? Well, of course, He knows everything. But His knowledge of that act of obedience ahead of time doesn’t minimize the importance of her obedience.
That’s my :twocents: anyway!
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Dancelittleewok
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jmcrae
Guest
Yes, she had the same free will as Eve did, when Eve said “Yes” to Satan.
According to some of the Early Fathers, her “Yes” to God “unknotted” Eve’s “Yes” to Satan, and just as Eve’s freely given “Yes” to Satan paved the way for Adam’s disobedience, so also Mary’s freely given “Yes” to God paved the way for Christ’s obedience on the Cross. They call her the “Second Eve” for this very reason.
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RCCDefender
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Sure, and if my boss comes to me and says, “Here I need you to type this up for me,” I still have the free will to tell him no even though he didn’t phrase it in a question. Not that I’d actually* do that*, but for argument’s sake…
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Prayer_Warrior
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God didn’t “ask” per se, that is why it is called the “annunciation”. However, after the angel answered her question “How can this be…” Mary said “Let it be done to me according to your word”. She could have said “no way Jose, that would put a crimp in my plans”. So, though it was an announcement, Mary still had a response to give. It could have been a negative one which would have been disobedient. (Notice how the angel does not depart from her until she says “Let it be done to me…”)
God didn’t ask Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit. He commanded, “You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But they disobeyed Him anyway.
God didn’t ask Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit. He commanded, “You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But they disobeyed Him anyway.
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ricmat
Guest
IMHO - Mary could have said no. She had free will, just like any of the rest of us.
Some saint whose name escapes me at the moment made the comment that the angels waited with baited breath for Mary’s response to Gabriel.
The fact that God knew she was going to say yes is no different than God knowing what any of us will do - since God is outside of time, he can see the future. But the fact that God sees what we will do does not negate our free will.
Some saint whose name escapes me at the moment made the comment that the angels waited with baited breath for Mary’s response to Gabriel.
The fact that God knew she was going to say yes is no different than God knowing what any of us will do - since God is outside of time, he can see the future. But the fact that God sees what we will do does not negate our free will.
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Trelow
Guest
I don’t think she could have said “no”. Not because she was forced to say “yes”, but because one completely untouched by sin would have no other desire than to serve God fully. How could someone “full of grace” refuse the Lord? Preposterous!
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jmcrae
Guest
“bated” (held) - not “baited.”
But, yes, the angels held their breath until Mary said, “Fiat” - be it done unto me as thou hast said.
:yup:
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ricmat
Guest
Thanks for the correction. Any idea who or where that originated with?“bated” (held) - not “baited.”
But, yes, the angels held their breath until Mary said, “Fiat” - be it done unto me as thou hast said.
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
Short answer: CARM.
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jmcrae
Guest
It sounds like something St. Irenaeus of Lyons might have said, but I couldn’t swear to it.
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Free_Grace
Guest
Wow! I like that very much. That was a very good answer, Trelow. In fact, that was a magnificiently good answer. I am glad I read it!
Peace and blessings to you.
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Bruised_Reed
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
So she was told was to happen, does that mean that she didn’t have a choice?
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
First my apologies…I edited my post above (didn’t do the quote right).
This part is my thought:
This part is my thought:
Gabriel wasn’t ordering Mary to do something, he was prophesying that something would happen.
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
mmm…I’m not sure I could agree fully. The choice was still there as all humans have free will. Therefore, she could have said no (could being the operative word for me). However, I fully agree with you that because of her full state of grace she would never say no. As you rightly point out, it is preposterous to think a person full of grace would refuse the Lord anything. Perhaps I am splitting hairs here, and I don’t mean to, but I am a strong believer in the concept of “free will for all”. If we start saying she couldn’t have been disobedient it seems as if God was disallowing her free will. Even Jesus had free will, which is why He was able to be “tempted”, however because of His perfect state of grace He also would never be disobedient.
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