Counterparts

[scree]

There are many aspects of the Catholic faith that seem to have a similar counterpart in other beliefs that are seen as sinful. For example:

Good - Prophecy
Bad - Fortune telling, tasseography

Good - Catholic mysticism
Bad - Islamic mysticism, Buddhist mysticism, Yoga

Good - Prayers to saints, communion of saints
Bad - Chinese ancestor veneration, summoning of spirits

Good - Blessing objects, relics
Bad - Amulets, lucky charms

Good - St. Benedict Medal, Burying statue of St Joseph (debated within Catholicism)
Bad - Superstition

Good - Catholic incorruptibles
Bad - Buddhist mummies

My questions are

-Are the items in the “bad” category inherently evil, or are they considered sinful because they show a rejection and lack of faith in Catholicism?

-Is it wrong for non-Christians to participate in items in the “bad” list?

-If yes to the above question, how is a non-Christian supposed to make the distinction between items on the “good” list and “bad” list?

-Are we to be skeptical of the items on the “bad” list, or are we to believe they actually work (but through some sort of demonic presence)?

 

[thistle]

There are many aspects of the Catholic faith that seem to have a similar counterpart in other beliefs that are seen as sinful. For example:

Good - Prophecy
Bad - Fortune telling, tasseography

Good - Catholic mysticism
Bad - Islamic mysticism, Buddhist mysticism, Yoga

Good - Prayers to saints, communion of saints
Bad - Chinese ancestor veneration, summoning of spirits

Good - Blessing objects, relics
Bad - Amulets, lucky charms

Good - St. Benedict Medal, Burying statue of St Joseph (debated within Catholicism)
Bad - Superstition

Good - Catholic incorruptibles
Bad - Buddhist mummies

My questions are

-Are the items in the “bad” category inherently evil, or are they considered sinful because they show a rejection and lack of faith in Catholicism?

-Is it wrong for non-Christians to participate in items in the “bad” list?

-If yes to the above question, how is a non-Christian supposed to make the distinction between items on the “good” list and “bad” list?

-Are we to be skeptical of the items on the “bad” list, or are we to believe they actually work (but through some sort of demonic presence)?

Burying a statue of St Joseph is superstition and not a good thing.

 

[scree]

Burying a statue of St Joseph is superstition and not a good thing.

Ok… how about St. Benedict Medals? Or how about the rest of my questions

 

[MichaelHowling]

Yes…the devil has always tried to mimic God…always wanted to be god. Therefore, we quite often see him take something God made good and twisting it.

They follow primacy of conscience. From what they understand as truth with the light they have …IF their ignorance is no fault of their own. God judges the heart…He meets everyone where they are.

We have to be concerned with them because they can be influenced by the demonic…or maybe they work but since we are not properly dispossed/have certain knowledge necessary to understand…it is better to stand on the side of caution and work with what God has revealed to us because THAT is trustworthy and what we need to know since God is the one the divulges it.

 

[bzkoss236]

Let’s take this one by one

Good - Prophecy
Bad - Fortune telling, tasseography

Prophecy is not the same as fortune telling. Prophecy is receiving information directly from God, which may or may not include something about the future. Fortune telling is not of God.

Good - Catholic mysticism
Bad - Islamic mysticism, Buddhist mysticism, Yoga

I don’t know enough about this to answer.

Good - Prayers to saints, communion of saints
Bad - Chinese ancestor veneration, summoning of spirits

Chinese ancestor veneration is different than adoration of the Saints. And the Communion of Saints and praying to the saints has nothing to do with summoning of spirits. Chinese ancestor veneration is so that the ancestors don’t get upset with the living and give them bad luck (or something like that). Veneration of the Saints is just honoring those who have lived a life in Christ’s service because we feel they deserve it. We aren’t to receive bad luck if we don’t venerate them. And prayer to the Saints isn’t he same as summoning spirits. We aren’t seeking information from the Saints (which is what is done with spirit summoning), we are asking them to pray to God for us (and with us). Not the same thing.

Good - Blessing objects, relics
Bad - Amulets, lucky charms

Blessed objects and relics are not “magical”, nor are they “lucky”. A blessed object is one that is dedicated to the service and/or worship of God. God may choose to use such an object to act out his will by allowing it to be used for miracles. There’s nothing particular about the object itself, it is all about God. Same goes for the relics. More on Relics

Good - St. Benedict Medal, Burying statue of St Joseph (debated within Catholicism)
Bad - Superstition

As a previous poster stated, the burying of a St. Joseph statue is superstition and should be avoided. The Benedict Metal and other blessed metals are like wearing blessings and prayers. It’s a physical representation of prayers and blessings (like the collection of candles by the statues of the Saints). Wearing the metals is like consistently praying. And as I mentioned before about blessed objects, God may use them to fulfill His will, including performing miracles.

Good - Catholic incorruptibles
Bad - Buddhist mummies

Don’t know much about the buddhist mummies, but the Incorruptibles are bodies of Saints that are miraculously preserved, of which there is no scientific explanation (aka. an act of God). If there is something similar in Buddhism, if they do not claim it as an act of God, then it might not be an act of God.

My questions are

-Are the items in the “bad” category inherently evil, or are they considered sinful because they show a rejection and lack of faith in Catholicism?

Some are condemned in the Bible (such as the summoning of spirits and the use of mediums/fortune tellers). You should refer to the Catechism for more of an explanation.

-Is it wrong for non-Christians to participate in items in the “bad” list?

If it is sin, then yes, it is bad for anyone. However, they may not know it is a sin.

-If yes to the above question, how is a non-Christian supposed to make the distinction between items on the “good” list and “bad” list?

This is where evangelism comes in. Otherwise, they won’t know what is necessarily considered good.

-Are we to be skeptical of the items on the “bad” list, or are we to believe they actually work (but through some sort of demonic presence)?

Could be either. I’d be skeptical first, personally, then if it is proven to somehow work, then I would suspect demonic works.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

As someone who is a non-believer but who was raised Catholic, I can fully understand a Catholic stating that Catholic mysticism is good while other mysticism is bad, approving prayers to saints while disapproving of spirit summoning. Why? Because there is nothing physical to draw upon. It’s solely about belief in what lies beyond.

As far as prophecy vs. fortune telling, it’s muddled at best. First if we’re including prophecy found in religious texts, there are two things to consider: 1) Are the prophecies in the Bible recorded accurately? 2) Why must we discard prophecies written in all non Judeo-Christian texts? If we set aside religious texts, then it simply becomes a matter of has there been an instance of accurate (and not coincidental) Christian prophecy and/or fortune telling.

For incorruptibles vs Buddhist mummies, I can understand calling the former good and the latter bad if a reasonable explanation can be made for the mummies that can’t be applied to the incorruptibles. If not, then it’s somewhere between inconsistent and hypocritical to separate them into good and bad.

The one that gets me is magical/lucky items. On this very board I’ve seen numerous posters recommend that other posters purchase scapulars. And I know that people here have defended them by saying it’s a sin to believe the items themselves have any power and that it comes from God. This is especially odd when a poster says he or she has prayed with no answer or solution, and they are told to get a scapular – as if it had a power that prayer does not. They even come in different colors depending on need, like new age crystals, yet they are all said to be powered by the same God.

 

[DexUK]

The simple answer is that the things on the ‘good’ list (apart from burying a statue, which is superstition) remind us of that which is sourced in God or directs us TO God.

The things on the Bad list are treated by adherents as sources of power or effects in and of themselves, in effect idolising or making false gods of them.

Simple example: believing in a ‘lucky charm’ implies that any good things that happen do so as a result of some sort of mystical power held within an inert thing. It is paganism basically. A blessed object however is to remind us of the beneficence of God and God alone. It is a symbol and does not have any power in its own right (although some people - including iconoclasts - will make that accusation and, indeed, some might actually believe it, in which case they’d be mistaken).

 

[scree]

Yes…the devil has always tried to mimic God…always wanted to be god. Therefore, we quite often see him take something God made good and twisting it.

They follow primacy of conscience. From what they understand as truth with the light they have …IF their ignorance is no fault of their own. God judges the heart…He meets everyone where they are.

We have to be concerned with them because they can be influenced by the demonic…or maybe they work but since we are not properly dispossed/have certain knowledge necessary to understand…it is better to stand on the side of caution and work with what God has revealed to us because THAT is trustworthy and what we need to know since God is the one the divulges it.

So why is it that when we talk about other religions, we say that the have part of the truth, but not the whole truth. They are not, but just lacking the fullness of the Catholic Church. But when we talk about the items on this list, it’s the knee jerk reaction to blame the devil?

 

[bzkoss236]

So why is it that when we talk about other religions, we say that the have part of the truth, but not the whole truth. They are not, but just lacking the fullness of the Catholic Church. But when we talk about the items on this list, it’s the knee jerk reaction to blame the devil?

Maybe because the devil is a primary component that keeps these other religions from having the fullness of truth.

 

[scree]

If it is sin, then yes, it is bad for anyone. However, they may not know it is a sin.

That’s essentially what my question is getting at. Stealing is a sin regardless of what religion you belong to. However, not going to Mass is a sin for Catholics, but can’t really be held against somebody who has never heard of Christianity. (I’d even go further and say it’s not a sin for a non-Catholics to skip Mass).

But what these kind of things on the list? As Catholics, we can say the items on the good list come from God, so they’re good. And the bad list are untrue (or come from the devil), thus are bad. But how can we reach out to other faiths and tell them that all of their fortune tellers are getting their information from Satan, but our prophets are getting their information from God?

 

[scree]

The one that gets me is magical/lucky items. On this very board I’ve seen numerous posters recommend that other posters purchase scapulars. And I know that people here have defended them by saying it’s a sin to believe the items themselves have any power and that it comes from God. This is especially odd when a poster says he or she has prayed with no answer or solution, and they are told to get a scapular – as if it had a power that prayer does not. They even come in different colors depending on need, like new age crystals, yet they are all said to be powered by the same God.

I definitely understand. That does seem like superstition to me.

 

[scree]

Simple example: believing in a ‘lucky charm’ implies that any good things that happen do so as a result of some sort of mystical power held within an inert thing. It is paganism basically. A blessed object however is to remind us of the beneficence of God and God alone. It is a symbol and does not have any power in its own right (although some people - including iconoclasts - will make that accusation and, indeed, some might actually believe it, in which case they’d be mistaken).

I often hear Catholics saying that blessing an object will give it some sort of additional spiritual power or helps to ward of demons. (A good example of the latter is blessing a house).

Is there anything in Catholic teaching that confirms or denies this to be the case?

 

[bzkoss236]

That’s essentially what my question is getting at. Stealing is a sin regardless of what religion you belong to. However, not going to Mass is a sin for Catholics, but can’t really be held against somebody who has never heard of Christianity. (I’d even go further and say it’s not a sin for a non-Catholics to skip Mass).

Is it ethically wrong to miss work at a company at which you ARE NOT employed?
Is it ethically wrong to miss work at a company at which you ARE employed?

But what these kind of things on the list? As Catholics, we can say the items on the good list come from God, so they’re good. And the bad list are untrue (or come from the devil), thus are bad. But how can we reach out to other faiths and tell them that all of their fortune tellers are getting their information from Satan, but our prophets are getting their information from God?

It’s difficult, but that’s what evangelism is all about.

 

[MichaelHowling]

Blessing of an object works on what is called the sacramental principle:

You have some form of matter ( a house, statue, person, medal etc ) . A prayer of the church is said over an object and the prayer attaches itself to that matter.

It’s not superstitious, it’s Gods blessing on the object. Because it is of God, it has a violent reaction against the demonic and those who are in the state of grace, can aid the user to the degree of that persons disposal to the sacramental.

It all flows from trust and openness to God…not superstitious “this statue/medal/words of a blessing have some miraculus power”

 

[scree]

Blessing of an object works on what is called the sacramental principle:

You have some form of matter ( a house, statue, person, medal etc ) . A prayer of the church is said over an object and the prayer attaches itself to that matter.

It’s not superstitious, it’s Gods blessing on the object. Because it is of God, it has a violent reaction against the demonic and those who are in the state of grace, can aid the user to the degree of that persons disposal to the sacramental.

It all flows from trust and openness to God…not superstitious “this statue/medal/words of a blessing have some miraculus power”

Let me reword my earlier question.

Does God give a statue, rosary, scapular, house, etc., special spiritual powers and the ability to ward of demons when somebody blesses it?

 

[bzkoss236]

Let me reword my earlier question.

Does God give a statue, rosary, scapular, house, etc., special spiritual powers and the ability to ward of demons when somebody blesses it?

Not just somebody, but a priest or bishop. And it is still God’s power, it doesn’t then belong to the object, it still belongs to God. God just uses the blessed object as a fountain of His blessings and protection. Just as a faucet in a home isn’t the source of water, it just dispenses the water. It is a conduit through which the water flows from its source.

 

[scree]

Not just somebody, but a priest or bishop. And it is still God’s power, it doesn’t then belong to the object, it still belongs to God. God just uses the blessed object as a fountain of His blessings and protection. Just as a faucet in a home isn’t the source of water, it just dispenses the water. It is a conduit through which the water flows from its source.

Lay people can give blessings, too. Are you saying God will give some sort of additional spiritual power when a priest, bishop, or pope blesses an object?

 

[bzkoss236]

Lay people can give blessings, too. Are you saying God will give some sort of additional spiritual power when a priest, bishop, or pope blesses an object?

CCC 1669:

Sacramentals derive from the baptismal priesthood: every baptized person is called to be a “blessing,” and to bless.174 Hence lay people may preside at certain blessings; the more a blessing concerns ecclesial and sacramental life, the more is its administration reserved to the ordained ministry (bishops, priests, or deacons).

Lay people can give certain blessings, but things like sacramentals, and the blessing of objects (to make them into sacramentals) requires ordination.

 

[MichaelHowling]

Yes, the blessing attaches to the object.

 

[down_under]

great questions to which you have received many great answers however I always cringe when I hear someone generating a “Good” and “Bad” list. and equating this in one way or another with sin. I understand there are faiths that believe things are good or bad because God said so. This is NOT a Catholic idea.

Sins are sins because the have spiritual and temporal consequences. They hurt the mind or the body of one or more persons. Some sins only hurt the offender. If a person does them not knowing they are wrong the are not sins, but that person still suffers spiritual and temporal consequences not because God had anything directly to do with it, but because bad things happening is inherent in the act itself which is why they should be avoided in the first place. You may not know why talking to spirits is wrong, that does not mean a demon won’t come in the door you opened with the wegee board. We teach are children to look both ways when they cross the street because the car will still kill them even if no one told them to look.