Countries with high numbers of atheists are better off?

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Hi Everyone,

My atheist friend told me that countries that are predominantly atheist, are better off, more developed, and have less problems in comparison to religious countries.

Just to clear things up, when he was talking about atheist countries he gave emphasis on Scandinavian countries. Also when he was talking about religious countries he meant countries in the Middle East and also countries with a high religious population.
(Not necessarily Christianity but religion in general)

What can be said to defeat this argument?
 
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This is just a factual statement. You can defeat this by citing facts against this (give examples of countries where this is NOT the case)
But I suspect this is in fact a true statement.

however, i think your friend wants to make the point that atheism CAUSES society to be better off.
That is a leap from a mere ASSOCIATION to CAUSALITY.

To defeat this argument, one can raise confounders, such as what Brittany has said, or even reverse cause.
ie countries that are better off caused atheism to breed. When one day the country doesn’t do well people will turn to religion again.
 
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Lets see:

Communist Russia - officially Atheist
Communist China - officially Atheist

…Yeah…They were so much better off.
 
I wonder if the atheist in question is referencing the Scandinavian countries. If that is the case, the only reason those countries are doing well is because they are sitting on a nice lump of gas and oil.
 
Counties full of people who place material value over all have more material wealth? Makes sense.
 
Tacceus said:
My atheist friend told me that countries that are predominantly atheist, are better off, more developed, and have less problems in comparison to religious countries.

What can be said to defeat this argument?
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He’s getting it backward. It’s not that countries that were atheist became rich/developed… it’s that people in many countries that became rich/developed segued away from Christianity and became atheists.

Atheism didn’t produce riches and cultural development; riches and cultural development spawned a greater orientation away from spiritual goods and toward material goods. 😉 😦
 
communist cuba- officially atheist; paradise on earth (not)

north korea- officially atheist (need i add a comment?)
 
Sweden wouldn’t be high up in the economy ranks if it wasn’t for the fact that 1000000 people (1/5 of the population) emigrated to North America during 1850-1920 and that there wasn’t active fighting during the WWII within its territory.

It is Norway that has the gas and oil and most of that money goes into the retirement fund for the elderly.

Finland’s economy is highly dependent on the Soviet union/Russian trade. This had to do with conflict over territory during WWII.

Denmark is the “Happiest country in the world” according to some new survey.

Sure, today most citizens in those countries don’t care about religion but they have had a great trust in the common good and trusted that the people in charge are trustworthy and want what is best for every citizen. A perfect example would be the way the tax systems were/is set up. That is slowly changing now in people’s minds that the individual is more important than the community. Very clear in the younger generations compare to older +70 years.
 
First of all, he needs to show you the evidence behind his statement.
 
I would just say, “That is interesting. I will have to look into that”. Then leave it at that. Don’t argue with your atheist friend. You aren’t going to change his mind, just as he isn’t going to change yours. At least not through arguing.
 
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Gorgias said:
However, it is important to not let false statements go unchallenged. 😉
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I used to think that, too. And it is still the way I think, to an extent. But what I have learned is you can still let the other person know you don’t buy in without arguing about it. You can just smile and say " well that is an interesting way to think of things" and then move on. Unless they are an idiot, they will know you don’t think what they are saying is accurate. I see way too much energy wasted on arguing points when it is futile. I don’t know if that’s the best use of anybody’s time.
 
When one is rich and sleek and well-fed, it is easy to say “I am my own God”.
 
I don’t think that enough people possess the Christian virtues to the extent that they should so that’s why they have problems. Besides just because atheists fare better doesn’t mean that there is no God.
 
You might ask for the definition of better off?
What percentage of their children are killed in the womb? Is the killing of the elderly legal?
Better off for whom?
 
Just challenge them to prove it. It seems they just made the claim without providing any evidence for it.
 
I would put the burden of proof on him. He’s making the claim. If he cannot support the claim, then it should be dismissed as mere opinion.
 
Indeed. Agreed. Selfishness and greed may make a country “better off” in this life…but not when it matters. Untold numbers suffer.
Remember the Beatitudes.
 
No one disputes that they live happily, easily and feel the ease of being.
For example,- instead of the child you can get a dog.
You can live without obligations “for yourself and for the sake of yourself”
Modern life is often “Nescafe effect” or “Microwave effect.” Everything is fast, affordable and at hand. The boiled water, coffee, sugar.
Instead of a wife you can order a “package of women’s services”, not even the wife but some concubine/girl friend is perceived in the sense of economic relations.(two assets with temporary value,we are together until we each other have something to offer )
I would say that atheism is the lightness of being, it is not binding.
You live for yourself and you live more comfortably.
 
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