Couple of questions from a non catholic pastor...

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*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
 
I’m sure you will receive many good answers but I can guarantee they won’t be simple ones…:rolleyes:

It has been my experience that in discussing these matters we very quickly run into differences in definitions and emphasis.

I’ll toss out a couple of things just to get you started.

What does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”?
First let me refer you to the on faithwhole section in the Catechism. Then from this, here is a beginning point for understanding what faith is.
150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.
Now, I put the term “Saving Faith” into my catechism search engine, I get no returns. So this is a term which is not even used in the Catechism. What your pastor is asking is probably covered, but not under that terminology.

To me a saving faith is what James describes in his epistle. A faith that is put into action. A faith that is not acted upon (has no works) cannot save.

**How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? **
In Catholicism we do not use this term “impute”. Rather the Catechism speaks of infused grace. This is an area where communication can be difficult between Catholic and protestant.
At Baptism one is made clean. Likewise through the Sacrament of confession one is made clean. If one were to die immediately upon leaving baptism or confession, they would be heaven bound. However, in living we can slip ( a little or a lot) and be seen as more or less righteous in by how we carry out our responsibilities as disciples of Christ.
As we move along in our journey and we conform ourselves, through God’s grace, to His Will, we grow in sanctification (holiness)
How this might fit with the terminology, and Doctrinal positions of your protestant pastor, I don’t know…🤷
It might be best to try and gather together some things from the Catechism and let him read them.

Peace
James
 
From the Catechism:

II. "I KNOW WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED"16

To believe in God alone

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.17

To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God

151 For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his “beloved Son”, in whom the Father is “well pleased”; God tells us to listen to him.18 The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe in God, believe also in me."19 We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."20 Because he “has seen the Father”, Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.21

To believe in the Holy Spirit

152 One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For “no one can say “Jesus is Lord”, except by the Holy Spirit”,22 who "searches everything, even the depths of God. . No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God."23 Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God.
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The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
III. THE CHARACTERISTICS OF FAITH

Faith is a grace

153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come “from flesh and blood”, but from “my Father who is in heaven”.24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.’"25

Faith is a human act

154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason. Even in human relations it is not contrary to our dignity to believe what other persons tell us about themselves and their intentions, or to trust their promises (for example, when a man and a woman marry) to share a communion of life with one another. If this is so, still less is it contrary to our dignity to “yield by faith the full submission of. . . intellect and will to God who reveals”,26 and to share in an interior communion with him.

155 In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will moved by God through grace."27

Faith and understanding

156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe “because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived”.28 So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit."29 Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church’s growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability “are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all”; they are “motives of credibility” (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is “by no means a blind impulse of the mind”.30
 
157 Faith is certain. It is more certain than all human knowledge because it is founded on the very word of God who cannot lie. To be sure, revealed truths can seem obscure to human reason and experience, but "the certainty that the divine light gives is greater than that which the light of natural reason gives."31 "Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt."32

158 “Faith seeks understanding”:33 it is intrinsic to faith that a believer desires to know better the One in whom he has put his faith, and to understand better what He has revealed; a more penetrating knowledge will in turn call forth a greater faith, increasingly set afire by love. The grace of faith opens "the eyes of your hearts"34 to a lively understanding of the contents of Revelation: that is, of the totality of God’s plan and the mysteries of faith, of their connection with each other and with Christ, the center of the revealed mystery. "The same Holy Spirit constantly perfects faith by his gifts, so that Revelation may be more and more profoundly understood."35 In the words of St. Augustine, "I believe, in order to understand; and I understand, the better to believe."36

159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."38

The freedom of faith

160 To be human, "man’s response to God by faith must be free, and. . . therefore nobody is to be forced to embrace the faith against his will. The act of faith is of its very nature a free act."39 "God calls men to serve him in spirit and in truth. Consequently they are bound to him in conscience, but not coerced. . . This fact received its fullest manifestation in Christ Jesus."40 Indeed, Christ invited people to faith and conversion, but never coerced them. "For he bore witness to the truth but refused to use force to impose it on those who spoke against it. His kingdom. . . grows by the love with which Christ, lifted up on the cross, draws men to himself."41

The necessity of faith

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

Perseverance in faith

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith."44 To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith;45 it must be “working through charity,” abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.46

Faith - the beginning of eternal life

163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then we shall see God “face to face”, “as he is”.47 So faith is already the beginning of eternal life:
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When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.48
164 Now, however, “we walk by faith, not by sight”;49 we perceive God as “in a mirror, dimly” and only “in part”.50 Even though enlightened by him in whom it believes, faith is often lived in darkness and can be put to the test. The world we live in often seems very far from the one promised us by faith. Our experiences of evil and suffering, injustice and death, seem to contradict the Good News; they can shake our faith and become a temptation against it.

165 It is then we must turn to the witnesses of faith: to Abraham, who “in hope. . . believed against hope”;51 to the Virgin Mary, who, in “her pilgrimage of faith”, walked into the "night of faith"52 in sharing the darkness of her son’s suffering and death; and to so many others: "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith."53
 
This is such a good question that, even though I’ve only a minute or two, I wanted to give it some thought. And also to congratulate and welcome you - I’ll add your discernment and walk with Christ to my prayers.
jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I think that we make a distinction between “faith” and “saving faith” that reflects a difference in language from an evangelical perspective but that, in meaning, they’d agree with. For us, mere faith is just mental assent - the belief that Christ existed and the events of the Gospel are true. A saving faith is a faith that takes the next logical step of putting one’s trust in Christ and living a life in conformance with that faith.

Putting one’s trust in Christ takes it from simply believing He is Who He says He is to putting your life in context with His promise of salvation. This in part entails putting Him and His teachings (well, they’re technically inseparable in that we believe in both the Incarnate Word and Scripture, but we recognize that we read Scripture while we pray to Jesus Christ) central to our lives, or at least in a centralizing tendency and allowing Grace to move us in the right direction. This also entails letting go of things that pull us away from that proper orientation - that right relationship.

As far as ongoing relationship, I like to think the Catholic perspective is at least two-fold. On the one hand we’ve the “do-nots” in the form of the Commandments. On the other we have the “dos” in the form of the Beatitudes. One pushes, the other pulls, both in the same direction. If our actions are formed with these as our principles, it is difficult to err. This is also where the Sacraments come in, they make use of the Church as Christ’s Body - specifically, Christ’s priests as His representatives - in order to further that relationship. Penance is restoration - the repairing of the breaches we inflict on our relationship with Christ. Eucharist is communion - the participation in Christ’s life much like a married couple participate in each others’ lives through an intimacy of love that unites the two into one common purpose. Note that intimacy doesn’t mean “sex” necessarily but rather the building of one life from two people. Baptism is welcoming, it is rebirth in Christ. Etc.

The deeming of one as righteous reflects the evangelical understanding of salvation as having distinct processes - justification (declaring righteous) and sanctification (making righteous). In Catholicism, we don’t separate the two but see them as co-integral parts of a lifelong process, much like a Christian of any stripe is not instantaneously mature in his or her faith upon first believing, but rather grows in Christ as Christ grows in the believer.

This is just a start, but you’re on a good walk here!
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jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
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Here is how you answer him.
 
jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
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I think the following will give provide you the understanding…chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/salvation.pdf

Look for the articles of Dr. Marshner and Fr. Longenecker.
 
JRKH said:
I’m sure you will receive many good answers but I can guarantee they won’t be simple ones…:rolleyes:

It has been my experience that in discussing these matters we very quickly run into differences in definitions and emphasis.

I’ll toss out a couple of things just to get you started.

What does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”?
First let me refer you to the whole section on faith in the Catechism. Then from this, here is a beginning point for understanding what faith is.
150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.
Now, I put the term “Saving Faith” into my catechism search engine, I get no returns. So this is a term which is not even used in the Catechism. What your pastor is asking is probably covered, but not under that terminology.

To me a saving faith is what James describes in his epistle. A faith that is put into action. A faith that is not acted upon (has no works) cannot save.

**How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? **
In Catholicism we do not use this term “impute”. Rather the Catechism speaks of infused grace. This is an area where communication can be difficult between Catholic and protestant.
At Baptism one is made clean. Likewise through the Sacrament of confession one is made clean. If one were to die immediately upon leaving baptism or confession, they would be heaven bound. However, in living we can slip ( a little or a lot) and be seen as more or less righteous in by how we carry out our responsibilities as disciples of Christ.
As we move along in our journey and we conform ourselves, through God’s grace, to His Will, we grow in sanctification (holiness)
How this might fit with the terminology, and Doctrinal positions of your protestant pastor, I don’t know…🤷
It might be best to try and gather together some things from the Catechism and let him read them.

Peace
James
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I recently got my own Catechism of the Catholic Church and find the reading very insightful and helpful for some of my questions. Thanks for the reply. I sent him a little something something for him to chew on. We will see how he replys back. I really feel like he is really testing my new direction I am taking which is somewhat saddening to me that he is rather hostile about it. Oh well! 😦
 
Generalizing about protestants is dangerous business, but I can’t resist. 😉 In my experience, many non-denoms take Luther’s “Faith Alone” to such an extreme that they find it odious to believe that anything in the physical realm could possibly have any innate value or meaning. Thus, they object to the very idea of sacrament since they have effectively bought into a philosophy that only the spiritual realm matters and the physical world is tainted at best, evil at worst.

Catholicism does not see such a divide between the physical and spiritual world. We understand humans to be a union of body and soul, not a soul trapped in a body. Because of this view, catholics have never found it troublesome how christians since the days of the apostles themselves have understood sacraments to be genuine avenues through which the gift of God’s Grace flows. Salvation IS a gift, after all. Why is it so troubling for this pastor to think that God might choose to give this gift to his people in a way that has a physical as well as spiritual manifestation?

And please! His phraseology suggests that he has preconceived the notion that the catholic church is no different than his church (started up out of the blue on nobody’s authority but the original pastor). That simply isn’t the case. The catholic church possesses the charism of granting certain sacraments ONLY because Christ gave that authority to his apostles, who passed it on to the bishops they ordained, who have continued to pass it on to their successor bishops and priests right down to today. It isn’t the institution that possesses the ability to infuse Grace, it is the holders of the apostolic office, established by Christ.

The best example of all this is the theology of the Eucharist held by the catholic church (and eastern orthodox, for that matter). It is easily documented that the belief that the Eucharist is the real body and blood of Christ and its reception infuses Grace on the recipient goes all the way back to apostolic times! If you are exploring these themes, you may find this book series flabbergasting:
amazon.com/Faith-Early-Fathers-Three-Set/dp/0814610250
 
manualman said:
Generalizing about protestants is dangerous business, but I can’t resist. 😉 In my experience, many non-denoms take Luther’s “Faith Alone” to such an extreme that they find it odious to believe that anything in the physical realm could possibly have any innate value or meaning. Thus, they object to the very idea of sacrament since they have effectively bought into a philosophy that only the spiritual realm matters and the physical world is tainted at best, evil at worst.
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In that sense Luther wound up reviving a dead horse/heresy known as Gnosticism.
Catholicism does not see such a divide between the physical and spiritual world. We understand humans to be a union of body and soul, not a soul trapped in a body. Because of this view, catholics have never found it troublesome how christians since the days of the apostles themselves have understood sacraments to be genuine avenues through which the gift of God’s Grace flows. Salvation IS a gift, after all. Why is it so troubling for this pastor to think that God might choose to give this gift to his people in a way that has a physical as well as spiritual manifestation?
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Beats me, especially when ALL of them accept marriage, and ALL of them believe that it has both a physical and spiritual manifestation. Virtually ALL of them believe that marriage is a sacrament even if they don’t use the term.

And please! His phraseology suggests that he has preconceived the notion that the catholic church is no different than his church (started up out of the blue on nobody’s authority but the original pastor). That simply isn’t the case. The catholic church possesses the charism of granting certain sacraments ONLY because Christ gave that authority to his apostles, who passed it on to the bishops they ordained, who have continued to pass it on to their successor bishops and priests right down to today. It isn’t the institution that possesses the ability to infuse Grace, it is the holders of the apostolic office, established by Christ.

In short the Church has elders and that brings up the uncomfortable truth that the Protestants have no biblical eldership, i.e., no apostolic succession.
The best example of all this is the theology of the Eucharist held by the catholic church (and eastern orthodox, for that matter). It is easily documented that the belief that the Eucharist is the real body and blood of Christ and its reception infuses Grace on the recipient goes all the way back to apostolic times! If you are exploring these themes, you may find this book series flabbergasting:
amazon.com/Faith-Early-Fathers-Three-Set/dp/0814610250
Click to expand...
Without the Eucharist, everything falls apart.

Many Protestants disregard the Church Fathers because they believe that the Church fell into “apostasy” shortly after the death of the last Apostle. Of course that is impossible:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]

If God wills for everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth, and He allowed the Church to fall into apostasy, then He cannot accomplish everything that He wills… which is an impossibility because God is… you know… God. Omnipotent. Almighty. It is completely unreasonable to believe that God cannot accomplish the salvation of everyone and therefore completely unreasonable to believe that the Church could be deprived of the Truth. Of course, that doesn’t mean that everyone is saved, just that everyone gets the opportunity to be saved and may freely reject it due to the Divine image of humanity. (see Hebrews 10:26-29).
 
Correction: on post 10 this should have been in a quote block
And please! His phraseology suggests that he has preconceived the notion that the catholic church is no different than his church (started up out of the blue on nobody’s authority but the original pastor). That simply isn’t the case. The catholic church possesses the charism of granting certain sacraments ONLY because Christ gave that authority to his apostles, who passed it on to the bishops they ordained, who have continued to pass it on to their successor bishops and priests right down to today. It isn’t the institution that possesses the ability to infuse Grace, it is the holders of the apostolic office, established by Christ
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.
 
jmoneyideas said:
I recently got my own Catechism of the Catholic Church and find the reading very insightful and helpful for some of my questions. Thanks for the reply. I sent him a little something something for him to chew on. We will see how he replies back. I really feel like he is really testing my new direction I am taking which is somewhat saddening to me that he is rather hostile about it. Oh well! 😦
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Looking at it from the pastor’s perspective, he MUST question and challenge you. Certainly we would challenge a Catholic who came here expressing an interest, desire, “draw” toward another faith tradition. In some ways it is a good thing as it forces you (and us) to stand ready to answer the questions and to do so in charity.
So don’t feel too bad that he seems disturbed by your direction.

It is good that you have a catechism. It is indeed a wonderful way to see how the teachings fit together and the footnotes and sources offer great avenues to discover the even deeper underpinning and reasoning for the teachings. Likewise it is good that you share this with him. The more questions he asks, the more of the catechism and other documents you can share with him.

So long as he is not stoutly anti-catholic, this provides the Holy Spirit, through you and us, with a wonderful teaching opportunity. By carefully answering his questions, showing how closely related the beliefs and teachings are in most instances - though terminology and emphasis may vary, this pastor will hopefully come to recognize that a) you are not going off the “deep end” into some “cult” b) that you have given this matter considerable and prayerful consideration, and c) he will (hopefully)come to have a greater understanding and respect for the Catholic Church and her teachings.

One thing that I have learned from listening to the testimonies of converts is that, for many/most, the Catholic Church was the Last place they ever thought they would wind up…Who knows - this pastor might be one in a few years…👍

Peace
James

P.S. I see that you have indeed received some good answers above…
Keep bringing the questions…

JRKH
 
From my own Baptist upbringing, when there is a discussion of “faith” and “saving faith”, what they are discussing is faith plus works, but will NEVER pjrase it that way. And that is because it would mean that Catholics were right about somethng, which is unpossible!
 
jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
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This is the core of what some protestants hold.

Dead faith means the person accepts faith but does not show it thru good works and
the person is not saved.
Saving faith or living faith is the faith accepted from which comes good works or
living out the faith they received.

It stems from “once saved always saved”. Meaning that if good works don’t follow then
the person never had the faith to begin with, and therefore this kind of faith is called
“dead”, or more simply “faith”. Salvation is lost or rather never had to begin with.

But “once saved always saved” means a person lives a good life from which flows
good works. These might backslide a little but salvation is still attained.

Basically salvation is righteousness give or take a little.
I believe they equate faith with salvation and are inseperable.
One is attached to the other.​

The Catholic version of faith is that faith is accepted thru Baptism of water (Nichademous)
and “once baptised always baptised”. Once of child of God, always a child of
God. If however the child of God backslides mortally, that is, commits deadly
sin, then the child of God loses salvation, but is still a child of God tho bad.
If they confess their sin(s), then salvation is regained, and the child of God is holy.
Holiness is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and sinfullness is the loss.

Protestants don’t have this in and out of salvation. A person is either saved or
they are not saved.
Catholics say that we are the temples of God with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and
we lose the Holy Spirit when we sin gravely, but may regain Him thru repentance.

We do not believe that faith and salvation are inseperable. Faith may be
present and salvation lost. (Judas)

This explaination was quick and loose, but it shows the differences somewhat.

Righteousness, justification, and sanctifying grace are the same for catholics.
 
jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
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Would it be possible to see the text of the email?
 
pablope said:
I think the following will give provide you the understanding…chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/salvation.pdf

Look for the articles of Dr. Marshner and Fr. Longenecker.
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Thanks for the link. I’m a volunteer for the Coming Home Network. I sponsored a former Presbyterian minister last year. This is a good issue you’ve posted. I would recommend reading something the Holy Father Benedict VXI wrote not long ago. Memory, without researching stumps me at the moment. Perhaps someone already posted it.

When it’s all said and done it really is by Grace alone. Now, how is grace alone the answer? As you study scripture in more depth and open your heart and mind to God it becomes evident that faith is the evidence of things hoped for. Now faith alone is no answer to truth, but evidence that God is working with you and you with God. Works are evidence of faith and the grace of God working within you. My favorite passage is Ephesians 2:8-11. “for it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith, and not by works so that no man can boast…” paraphrased somewhat. It’s a bible memory verse we were required to read for an ACU bible course we took in the 90’s. I was planning on becoming a preacher, but my wife resisted having come from a family of preachers, deacons and elders/bishops.

Point is that we, Catholics and Protesters, often get confused in our good intentions. It truly is the Grace of God that saves us. However, when we cooperate with grave, as expected, we have faith, hope and charity. Maybe you could say that works are the evidence of faith, hope and charity. Good question. Now for the “official answer”. Read what Pope Benedict VXI says about this subject. … I think it was a speech in which the holy father gave. I still get urked by the word added “alone” before faith though. My previous Christian faith also teaches the same thing on this as the Catholic Church.
 
jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
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Hey, Jmoney!

I don’t know your pastor friend. I’m not sure what he’s after. I certainly don’t feel comfortable defending someone I don’t know. I’m going to take a shot, though, at giving an orthodox Protestant rendering to the questions.

(By the way, I really appreciated the posts from the catechism–even if they were a bit long. I hadn’t read them before…)

In Protestant theology, there is talk of two items that are applicable here: Justification and sanctification. Justification is a legal standing conferred upon the believer at the moment of salvation. We teach the students to remember that justified = just-as-if-I’d never sinned. At the moment of repenting of our sins and believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, his righteousness is imputed to us. When God looks at us after that he sees the righteousness of Christ, not our righteousness. There is never anything we can do to improve this standing. Christ did it for us.

Are we perfect after we are justified? Well, no. We are fallen creatures, after all. From the moment of salvation, the process of sanctification begins. Sanctification is the process of becoming more and more like Christ. At salvation, we are given a new heart. That new heart drives us to become more and more obedient, more and more conformed to the will of the Father guided by the Holy Spirit. We sin and repent, sin and repent, sin and repent. Our justified status never changes, but over time we become more like Christ. Chuck Swindoll wrote the book, “Three Steps Forward, Two Steps Back” about this subject. I read it 20 years ago and found it very helpful.

These terms, I think, are at the root of the pastor’s questions to you. He’s questioning how those two things are achieved according to RC doctrine. He’s asking you who you are going to trust for your righteousness, how you are going to be able to stand before God.

I think both RC and Protestant churches teach that we have no hope standing alone. I think the pastor is asking you where you are going to put your trust so that you can stand.
 
jmoneyideas said:
*what does the Roman CATHOLIC Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism? *

I was presented this question during my conversation with my pastor of a non denominational church who I have been in some deep dialogue with. I have started a new journey on my walk with christ, toward a truth and this truth is bringing me home. I Will say this is a good question though… it goes with the line salvation through Grace alone, that what I got from his email… I feel he is anti sacramental tradition in the path to salvation…:confused:
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I can’t really speak to your first question above, but as to how one is deemed righteous, I would say that that Catholic Church teaches what we Catholics need to do in order to stay or keep in a state of grace. There are grave sins, also called mortal sins, which if unconfessed or otherwise unrepented, will cause grace to be lost in our soul. The smaller sins, called venial sins, can diminish somewhat this grace also. While we need to confess, if at all possible, all grave sins, we needn’t confess the smaller venial sins (though it’s a good idea).

Through baptism, all sin is washed away, and we are in a state of grace. It’s up to us to stay and grow in a state of grace, so as to grow in holiness. By an examination of conscience, ideally every evening if possible, we can see where we are faltering, and need to improve. We rely on the good advice of the priest in the confessional to help us. To me, a good confessor is the very best of psychologists.

We have the good example of the penitent saints to follow, and what they went through to achieve holiness. Some of my favorite saints had been serious sinners before they converted and grew in holiness, such as St. Paul, St. Augustine, and St. Mary of Egypt. The great change in their lives and in the lives of countless others is a testament to how one grows in faith and holiness through Our Lord, the Holy Ghost, and the direction and sacraments provided by the Catholic Church (and with the help of the Blessed Mother as well).
 
JRKH said:
This would be interesting IF the pastor agrees.

Peace
James
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Here you go… He is Quoted Below
Although it was a time in history, the Roman influence has been upheld until this day by the Vatican. No inference has been made about an “Iron Fist” rule but where the protest lies is in the interpretation of the Scriptures and exposition thereof.
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Hence, I offer the argument of the necessity of returning to the original languages of the Scripture (Kione Greek & Hebrew) in order to gain a deeper and accurate knowledge.
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As far as sacraments and dogmatically practices, they are far and wide, increasingling influenced by the “Tradition of Men.”
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Question: What does the Roman Catholic Church interpret as “faith” and “saving faith”? How is one deemed as righteous? Is it imputed by the Roman Catholic Church through baptism?
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He emailed me today asking me if I would like to meet with him to discuss these things face to face. I think it was because I didn’t got to Bible Study at the Church and instead I was reading This site and my Catholic Study Bible and Catechism ( sort of feeling like the mad scientist with these book all over my bed and my Tablet on this sight LOL) He thinks that maybe some of the Dialogue Via email is getting lost in Translation, which is how I used to describe s comment He sent me…
 
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