Couple to form their "own church" ?

[estesbob]

I do not know many people who do not believe their personal interpretation of the Bible. While some obviously believe the interpretation, or claim to, of an authority figure, they still have to make a personal decision to do so.

I have no personal interpretation of Scripture. There is no way I am qualified to do so.

 

[estesbob]

I do not think there are any trolls on this thread. There might be people you disagree with and are calling names, but not any trolls.

It is nice to see there is something we agree on.

 

[Rightlydivide]

I have no personal interpretation of Scripture. There is no way I am qualified to do so.

A couple of questions then:

What specific verses has Catholicism infallibly interpreted in the Bible?
Do you have personal interpretations of any of the verses they have not infallibly defined?
Did you read the Bible to personally determine you believe that Rome should interpret the Bible?

 

[estesbob]

A couple of questions then:

What specific verses has Catholicism infallibly interpreted in the Bible?

I beleive there are three-but I dont recall which ones there are.

Do you have personal interpretations of any of the verses they have not infallibly defined?

No

Did you read the Bible to personally determine you believe that Rome should interpret the Bible?

I read Scripture to have a deeper understanding of my faith but my faith would not be any different if I had never picked up a copy of the Bible. Of course there is nothing in scripture that contradicts in any way my Fatih. I trust that Jesus did not leave us on our own to cipher out the truth for ourselves from a book that did not yet exist.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Many can claim to know him but to know him in all his fullness one can only do that through his Church

We have to disagree. My view is centered on the divine, not the other way around. It is a spiritual matter and not an earthly matter. Christ can absolutely be in the bread and wine physically, but if that’s the only place you can find him, that is like saying he is not a spiritual being.

And this method has led to the proliferation of Chruch’s the OP talked about. Everyone in a mad dash to create a Jesus in their own image and likeness.

Some have made Jesus into an untrue image, but in my mind there’s nothing that proves that your view of Jesus is any more accurate than mine, regardless of people you claim have the authority to do so.

Jesus is acessible to all who want to sincerely come to him. unfortunately many settle for less than the real thing. They create a Jesus who is their buddy and tags along with them whispering the truth in their ear. The problem is buddy Jesus is whispering other truths in others ears. God is not the author of confusion. The fullness of truth is found ONLY in his Church

I don’t have a buddy Jesus who whispers sweet nothings. He speaks truth whether i want to hear it or not. Again, we will have to disagree about where He is found. If He were found only in one building, one denomination, one person then He wouldn’t be much of a Saviour of mankind, but a Saviour of only a few special people.

But the Church IS Jesus. If you know Jesus you know the Church

Peace…

MW

The box you have Him in labeled, “This is Jesus” could be a caricature of someone’s imagination. It limits His power, His revelation and His resources to only what you perceive Him to be. We see through a glass darkly right now. Soon we shall see Him as He truly is.

Peace…

MW

 

[Rightlydivide]

I beleive there are three-but I dont recall which ones there are.

No

I read Scripture to have a deeper understanding of my faith but my faith would not be any different if I had never picked up a copy of the Bible. Of course there is nothing in scripture that contradicts in any way my Fatih. I trust that Jesus did not leave us on our own to cipher out the truth for ourselves from a book that did not yet exist.

That does not answer the question, unless someone is born into the Catholic church, everyone must read the same book, the Bible, history, and pray to come to a decision. If you Mr. Estesbob decided to stay in the church you were born into, that is quite different than someone like me, who was never in a church growing up.
The fact of the matter is that any person who is not born into the Catholic church would need to use scripture, history, and prayer to discern if the Catholic church is the truth. That takes “personal interpretation” of scripture to decide the Catholic church is or is not the church founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[estesbob]

That does not answer the question, unless someone is born into the Catholic church, everyone must read the same book, the Bible, history, and pray to come to a decision. If you Mr. Estesbob decided to stay in the church you were born into, that is quite different than someone like me, who was never in a church growing up.
The fact of the matter is that any person who is not born into the Catholic church would need to use scripture, history, and prayer to discern if the Catholic church is the truth. That takes “personal interpretation” of scripture to decide the Catholic church is or is not the church founded by Jesus Christ.

There is only one Church that has been around since the start. No others came along for 1,500 years. Makes it a preety easy decision regardless of what Church ones parents belong to.

BTW-if you had really used history as part of your decision t picvk a Church you wuld be Catholic.

 

[Rightlydivide]

There is only one Church that has been around since the start. No others came along for 1,500 years. Makes it a preety easy decision regardless of what Church ones parents belong to.

BTW-if you had really used history as part of your decision t picvk a Church you wuld be Catholic.

I see you are not disagreeing with the content of my post. It is true. A person, not born into the Catholic church, in order to become Catholic would have to read the Bible and use their personal interpretation of the Bible to decide that Rome should be the infallible interpreter.

I really did you use history, whether you believe it or not. The world is full of Orthodox(Eastern and Oriental) and Protestants that have studied early church history and are not Roman Catholic.
“Really”…

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

There is only one Church that has been around since the start. No others came along for 1,500 years. Makes it a preety easy decision regardless of what Church ones parents belong to.

BTW-if you had really used history as part of your decision t picvk a Church you wuld be Catholic.

The original, historical model T Ford isn’t nearly as sleek or well-designed as the 2007 GT Mustang. Just because it is older and the original doesn’t mean that the model T supercedes the new Mustang. Just an analogy. Forgive me if it’s inappropriate.

BTW, what about the Orthodox who split around 1000 AD. Your history is not entirely accurate.

Peace…

MW

 

[estesbob]

The original, historical model T Ford isn’t nearly as sleek or well-designed as the 2007 GT Mustang. Just because it is older and the original doesn’t mean that the model T supercedes the new Mustang. Just an analogy. Forgive me if it’s inappropriate.

BTW, what about the Orthodox who split around 1000 AD. Your history is not entirely accurate.

Peace…

MW

Either the truth is unchanging or is left of each generation for individual to come up with their own version of the truth. Ill go with the former. Christ left us the Catholic Church to nuture and protect this truth.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Either the truth is unchanging or is left of each generation for individual to come up with their own version of the truth. Ill go with the former. Christ left us the Catholic Church to nuture and protect this truth.

Ah, the truth. Boy, that word gets us into a lot of trouble. There’s so many things bound up in that simple five letter word. We say some is relative, some is absolute, to some it is a mixture of both. As I said before (and quoting St. Paul), we see through a glass darkly now.

“Truth” is another box that we label and think that’s what it is. We should open the box, see what’s really inside and tear the label off. Truth has to be experienced, not preached or tested in the lab.

I thought I mentioned before on this thread (maybe not) that the word church is the Greek word “ekklesia”, which simply means “called out assembly”. It could mean a home church, a monastery, etc. or it can mean the Baptist church or Catholic Church.

I think our definitions are different and therefore we reach different conclusions. Either way I respect the Catholic Church while not being a part of it. I disagree with its theology, but view members as brothers and sisters, although we are certainly a dysfunctional family.

Peace…

MW

 

[jblake]

notself;:

Would it really affect religion if it was not given tax credits by the state? Would fewer people be religious or support their churches?

The only thing I can point to is anecdotal evidence, but:

• Religious organizations that incorporate as for-profit organizations do do better financially than those that incorporate as non-profit organizations, however, the amount of gift giving is significantly lower. (They make up for the income loss the way other churches do — running bingo games, and similar revenue-generating ventures.)
• Unincorporated churches that can’t/don’t offer a a tax deduction that the IRS allows, run on the fiscal strength of half a dozen or so individuals — if that many;

xan

jonathon

 

[notself]

The only thing I can point to is anecdotal evidence, but:

• Religious organizations that incorporate as for-profit organizations do do better financially than those that incorporate as non-profit organizations, however, the amount of gift giving is significantly lower. (They make up for the income loss the way other churches do — running bingo games, and similar revenue-generating ventures.)
• Unincorporated churches that can’t/don’t offer a a tax deduction that the IRS allows, run on the fiscal strength of half a dozen or so individuals — if that many;

xan

jonathon

Thanks

 

[estesbob]

The only thing I can point to is anecdotal evidence, but:

• Religious organizations that incorporate as for-profit organizations do do better financially than those that incorporate as non-profit organizations, however, the amount of gift giving is significantly lower. (They make up for the income loss the way other churches do — running bingo games, and similar revenue-generating ventures.)
• Unincorporated churches that can’t/don’t offer a a tax deduction that the IRS allows, run on the fiscal strength of half a dozen or so individuals — if that many;

xan

jonathon

A Church does not have to incoporate nor file and application to be a tax exempt. They can recieve tax exempt donation the day they open their doors. Any compensation given the “pastors” or administrators is fully taxable to them although they can opt out of paying their employees SS-in which case the employees are liable for both ends of it.

 

[jblake]

Quackers;:

How do you know the Catholic Church has lost authority?

I just got through reading some of the encyclicals of Pope Leo about Anglican Rituals. It could have as easily applied to the post Vatican II rituals.

xan

jonathon

 

[jblake]

Mystic Warrior;:

I don’t call waiting to enter RCIA finding Jesus.

And some people can be baptized/christened, but prohibited confirmation, and also prohibited from undergoing RCIA.

xan

jonathon

 

[mark_a]

A friend has informed me that a mutual acquaintance and her husband plan to form their own church. This is in response to a change in the leadership of their non-denominational church wherein the pastor is hiring a man who has been divorced and remarried as co-pastor.

They base this decision on Jesus’ admonishment against divorce in the Gospel, as well as something in the New Testament about a bishop only being married once.

Since they’re not Catholic, I don’t see the problem here. They are at least moving in a more Catholic direction.

 

[Metaron]

…
The fact of the matter is that any person who is not born into the Catholic church would need to use scripture, history, and prayer to discern if the Catholic church is the truth. That takes “personal interpretation” of scripture to decide the Catholic church is or is not the church founded by Jesus Christ.

Like me! I was born and raised Protestant, and now I’m coming Home, to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, founded by Christ, with a direct lineage of ordination all the way back to our beloved Apostles. Can’t beat that!

And it didn’t take personal interpretation of Scripture for me. I just read history and found out that Protestantism (Do-it-Yourself Christianity) only popped up in the 1500’s. so I only had three options:

Anglicanism
Orthodoxy
Catholicism

I chose Anglicanism… but now, I realize that their has to be an infallible Truth on matters such as contraception, life at conception, gay marriage, gay clergy (sick) women clergy (ew) embryonic stem-cell research, etc. So I had to, by my own conscience, go to the only Place where, I can ask a question, and get the definitive, absolute Truth on issues that are highly important. I had to, I just had to…

 

[mozart-250]

A friend has informed me that a mutual acquaintance and her husband plan to form their own church. This is in response to a change in the leadership of their non-denominational church wherein the pastor is hiring a man who has been divorced and remarried as co-pastor.

They base this decision on Jesus’ admonishment against divorce in the Gospel, as well as something in the New Testament about a bishop only being married once.

My concern for them is the responsibility of taking on for themselves a position of authority, thereby making themselves responsible for the souls in their congregation.

1. Where does the authority over their prospective congregants come from?
2. How do they think they will be able to escape the same pitfalls as their current pastor?

If I were they, I would be scared to death to take on such a weighty task. They seem to be very comfortable with this, however, they are still discerning the move.

Those of you who come from this faith tradition, can you answer the above questions, and, can you comment on whether you think they are on dangerous ground?

I can’t comment on this case; however I have observed several comparable cases throughout my life.

In every case, one would have been better served by staying with the original church than with the side that split.

In many cases, both sides were seriously weakend.

 

[leonie]

last year, we received a letter from my children’s swimming coach. He and his wife were starting a church. He did have some kind of seminary training from a Protestant school. The letter was so earnest, but I was puzzled. In our suburban city, there’s dozens of Churches–including several “mega Churches.”

This man and his wife were eager to reach out to the great need of evangelizing our city. I was a little confused. It seems to me that he and his wife would be more effective working in an established Church structure if they are concerned about the unchurched in our community.

What I concluded was that he wasn’t able to get a job at one of the many churches and he wanted to be the “boss.” If he starts his own church, he is an instant pastor. No working your way up. No relocating to find a job. No submitting to a board of elders or a senior pastor.