Courage Apostolate

[Lisa4Catholics]

goofyjim:

It should be strategically placed in every locale where Dignity is present. Sort of like putting a pro-life counseling center near a Planned Parenthood clinic.

And there it is:thumbsup: :clapping: :dancing: :clapping:

 

[Other_Eric]

Hi luke2219!

I have heard a lot about Courage. I have even met with David Morrison and had long conversations about the ministry, but I remain ambivalent. I echo the concerns of others who have expressed concern that thrusting a bunch of SSA individuals into close association with each other is not an objective near occasion of sin. After all, we’re talking in other threads about banning these individuals from Holy Orders because they are inherently sexually predatory irrespective of past conduct. Additionally, I have yet to hear the convincing argument that the homosexual condition itself is not sinful in the face of a reparative therapy that works.

 

[luke2219]

Other Eric:

Additionally, I have yet to hear the convincing argument that the homosexual condition itself is not sinful in the face of a reparative therapy that works.

Hi Eric! Let me throw an argument out there. The homosexual condition is just one manifestation of our fallen human nature, concupiscience. Reparative therapy can work because, “in the beginning it was not so.” Through the death and ressurection of Christ, we can overcome our weaknesses. But having the weekness itself is not sinful, only giving into it. Besides, to be sin, not only must it be objectively evil, but it must be freely and knowingly chosen. I can tell you, if I had a choice I would not have chosen this condition. And it is because I do not chose it, that I seek to overcome it through the healing power of Christ. Can we say that I am perpetualy sinning while the condition remains even as I pursue measure to rid myself of it?

Being in close association with other men with SSA is only a near occasion of sin depending on the circumstances. Going to a gay bar or other place where the condition is celebrated as good and the people are gathering to seek to gratify their flesh is clearly wrong. But if our association is to grow in holiness and virtue, then the near occasion of sin is not there. In fact with my Courage friends, I am far, far less likely to sin sexualy than almost any other place.

 

[Other_Eric]

luke2219:

The homosexual condition is just one manifestation of our fallen human nature, concupiscience. Reparative therapy can work because, “in the beginning it was not so.” Through the death and ressurection of Christ, we can overcome our weaknesses. But having the weekness itself is not sinful, only giving into it. Besides, to be sin, not only must it be objectively evil, but it must be freely and knowingly chosen. I can tell you, if I had a choice I would not have chosen this condition. And it is because I do not chose it, that I seek to overcome it through the healing power of Christ. Can we say that I am perpetualy sinning while the condition remains even as I pursue measure to rid myself of it?

Hi luke2219!

The homosexual condition may just be one aspect of our fallen human nature but the important thing that you do not seem to notice is that we are required to overcome whatever weaknesses we are subject to. Additionally, if reparative therapy does work, then the decision not to enter into it is a de facto decision to be subject to a condition that is objectively disordered… Thus, the state of persistent homosexual temptation meets both the requirements of being objectively evil and being freely and knowingly chosen.

Now because Courage does not require of its members that they embark on a course of reparative therapy it seems that this is a disservice. It dupes its members into a false sense of security by not acknowledging the very real possibility that their condition is sinful. You said you are pursuing measures to rid yourself of the condition and therefore because you are in anticipation and working towards eradicating it you are safe in the same way that a man who on his way to confession but dies before receiving the sacrament.

 

[trailblazer]

The Courage ministry is great. Last year I had an 11th grade student who approached me about her sexuality and had questions about Confirmation. This quickly put me through a long search regarding Catholic teachings and pastoral advise. I wish I would have known about this ministry then. Every priest and catechist should be aware of special ministries like this one and Project Rachael!

 

[leo123]

Courage comes recommended by Christopher West, author of ‘Good News about Sex and Marriage’ and other works based on John pauls theology of the body

If he recommends it I would too

GB

 

[Bruised_Reed]

…

I echo the concerns of others who have expressed concern that thrusting a bunch of SSA individuals into close association with each other is not an objective near occasion of sin. After all, we’re talking in other threads about banning these individuals from Holy Orders because they are inherently sexually predatory irrespective of past conduct.
…

Then where do all the nice, single, young adult Catholics go meet. Young Adult groups are in close association with members of the opposite sex, often quite deliberatly.

I haven’t been to any Courage meetings but I’m going to go out on a limb that a greater percentage of YA groups have less-than-chaste individules as members. And I don’t mean in a predetory way, either.

 

[trailblazer]

Great point from Bruised Reed. We are basically communal in nature. Very few of us want to be alone. So, what is a homosexual to do to find love, acceptance and fellowship…go to a homosexual bar? Would it not be better to go to a group of Christians who can provide the same things, but with the added benefit of Christian foundation. This apostolate, helps men and women who are struggling with their sexuality to live life according to the teachings of the Church. It allows homosexuals to voice their struggles and to help each other.

Put yourself in their shoes. You’ll discover intense lonliness, a feeling like a freak, an embarrassment for not being like others, no one to talk with openly… Homosexuals are one of the truly marginalized of today’s society. They are like the lepers and tax collectors and “sinners” of Jesus day. Although Jesus never compromized God’s standards, he gave them dignity, acceptance, and hope. We need to reach out as Jesus did, embrace the marginalized, and preach the good news through our loving words and actions.

I wish there were more Courage groups around.

Peace to all!
Bob

 

[Jennifer123]

Luke2219-

I’m so glad to hear form someone who has experience in the apostolate. Thank you for sharing.
If I may ask for the benefit of myself and possibly others, what, in your opinion, can we do for friends and family members who are homosexual to bring them to Courage or even to Christ?

 

[joegrabowski]

I met Father Harvey on a few locations and he is a wonderful and intelligent man. He came to my seminary to lecture on this issue and was very insightful, without mincing words, yet compassionate. He lives in my Diocese as well, and I’ve been blessed to converse with him a few times. I’m looking to read a few of his books to gain some insight on this issue, since it presents a unique ministerial challenge.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

trailblazer:

Great point from Bruised Reed. We are basically communal in nature. Very few of us want to be alone. So, what is a homosexual to do to find love, acceptance and fellowship…go to a homosexual bar? Would it not be better to go to a group of Christians who can provide the same things, but with the added benefit of Christian foundation. This apostolate, helps men and women who are struggling with their sexuality to live life according to the teachings of the Church. It allows homosexuals to voice their struggles and to help each other.

Put yourself in their shoes. You’ll discover intense lonliness, a feeling like a freak, an embarrassment for not being like others, no one to talk with openly… Homosexuals are one of the truly marginalized of today’s society. They are like the lepers and tax collectors and “sinners” of Jesus day. Although Jesus never compromized God’s standards, he gave them dignity, acceptance, and hope. We need to reach out as Jesus did, embrace the marginalized, and preach the good news through our loving words and actions.

I wish there were more Courage groups around.

Peace to all!
Bob

This is in stark cantrast to similar thread where one poster thought those with SSA should live in seclusion because they have some sort of special “cross.”

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I have been lurking in the Catholic Answers forum for a while but this topic made me finally register because something that was said is just bugging me to no end:

Additionally, if reparative therapy does work, then the decision not to enter into it is a de facto decision to be subject to a condition that is objectively disordered… Thus, the state of persistent homosexual temptation meets both the requirements of being objectively evil and being freely and knowingly chosen.

Now because Courage does not require of its members that they embark on a course of reparative therapy it seems that this is a disservice.

Okay, let me get this straight. A person is afflicted with the cross of being same-sex attracted and in order to atone for their sin of being tempted by persons of the same sex, they must pay thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars for therapy. Is this what is meant by this?

The Catechism is very plain on the matter in paragraph 2359: “Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” It goes on to talk about self-mastery and inner freedom and resolutely approaching Christian perfection. I don’t see anything about spending inordinate amounts of money in the pursuit of reparative therapy (and don’t kid yourself, this is EXPENSIVE therapy). It’s not as though we’re talking about minks that have no control over their own bodies and are led around by their genitalia.

Courage is one means for a same-sex attracted person to be assisted in the pursuit of chastity. The Sacraments of the Eucharist and Reconciliation (which I am awaiting to partake of – I can’t wait!) as well as prayer and spiritual reading are other means and are encouraged by Courage. Let’s also bear in mind that Courage is the only apostolate approved by the Church to minister to persons with same-sex attractions.

Then it comes to things like that, I think I’ll trust the authority of the Church. The Church says that having same-sex attraction is not sin…acting on it is. I’ll go by that.