Court backs Turkish headscarf ban

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spiritblows

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*"Turkey can ban Islamic headscarves in universities, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.

The court rejected an appeal by a Turkish woman who argued that the state ban violated her right to an education and discriminated against her."*

Link to BBC article

I can’t believe this headscarf thing. What’s wrong with women wearing a lovely scarf on their heads? Actually, I think this Islamic custom is rather nice, and it’s totally inoffensive. This is secularism taken too far and I can’t believe any court would say it’s okay.
 
Court of Human Rights… I think they have forgotten what human rights are. 😦

George
 
spiritblows said:
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citation snipped

I can’t believe this headscarf thing. What’s wrong with women wearing a lovely scarf on their heads? Actually, I think this Islamic custom is rather nice, and it’s totally inoffensive. This is secularism taken too far and I can’t believe any court would say it’s okay.*

Weeeeellll, I’ve been to the Middle East a few times, and the headscarfs aren’t exactly what I would call “lovely.”

That said, I think a headscarf ban is a serious violation of a Muslim woman’s human rights. It is the same in some parts of that culture as it would be in our culture for someone to mandate that women had to walk around topless.

DaveBj
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Since we let them join NATO, so we could have someone on our side in control of the Bosporus.

DaveBj
 
spiritblows said:
*"Turkey can ban Islamic headscarves in universities, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.

The court rejected an appeal by a Turkish woman who argued that the state ban violated her right to an education and discriminated against her."*

Link to BBC article

I can’t believe this headscarf thing. What’s wrong with women wearing a lovely scarf on their heads? Actually, I think this Islamic custom is rather nice, and it’s totally inoffensive. This is secularism taken too far and I can’t believe any court would say it’s okay.
Click to expand...

I’ve never quite understood this banning of clothing/headcovering in Turkey, France, Germany, etc…

Are they equally applicable to ALL religions? For instance, may an Orthodox Jew in Turkey wear a yarmulke in “official buildings”? May a Catholic priest wear a collar or other clothing indicative of his role as a cleric in “official buildings”?

I may not know the whole story - perhaps all clothing that may ‘proclaim’ one’s religion is equally banned - but from the scraps of news that I hear from time to time it seems that if most of these bans are against those who are Islamic.
 
As a Muslim, it disgusts me when I read about Turkey bannning the headscarf. It is really shamefull for a country to become that secular and think it is all in the name of freedom. Rather, it is in the name of “anything but God”.

Granted, America is leaning more and more towards being secular, but when we see this type of garbage in countries such as Turkey, we have to realize the blessings we have in America.

Sure, we have to deal with the liberals who try to get the statue of the ten commandments taken out of a courtroom, but can you imagine if American law said nuns could not where the habit and would be arrested if they wore one in public?
 
I just can’t believe that any court would think banning an article of clothing as inoffensive as a head scarf, whether it’s worn for religious purposes or not, is ok. If they want to stamp out discrimation against women, why are they discrimating against women here? These women want to go to college and further their education. That doesn’t sound like oppressed women to me. Why shouldn’t religious women be able to go to college?
 
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DaveBj:
That said, I think a headscarf ban is a serious violation of a Muslim woman’s human rights. It is the same in some parts of that culture as it would be in our culture for someone to mandate that women had to walk around topless.

DaveBj
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It really is like that for a religious Muslim women, no exaggerating here. And many religious turkish women end up not finishing school because of this ban.
 
Und do mein freund sind ein
Can ich sagen Kopf aber nich ein Kopf,f,and you know the rest
Turkey is in Europe and if you still have doubt
Check something called Atlas
Oder mapen in Deutche sprache
You will find a lot of interesting countries,and perhaps
Learn some geography
Or maybe you are sad that Sobieski didnt take Stamboul 😉
Oh :rolleyes: 😉
 
The founders of the Tukish Republic disliked christianity and Islam. The Sultan of the Ottoman Empire was also the Caliph (an Islamic postition ) .The Founders of the Republic didn’t like what had been done in the name of Islam,so they declaredf Turkey a secular Republic.The wearing of religious garb is forbidden by either christians or muslims in public. An exception is made for the Patriarch of Costantinople and the Pope when he visits Turkey.
Pope John XXIII when Papal Nuncio to Turkey could not wear clerical garb in public.
 
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DaveBj:
Since we let them join NATO, so we could have someone on our side in control of the Bosporus.

DaveBj
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That doesn’t make Turkey European, or Western. But then, people addicted to power don’t usually concern themselves with preserving culture or civilization.
 
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JOHNYJ:
The founders of the Tukish Republic disliked christianity and Islam. The Sultan of the Ottoman Empire was also the Caliph (an Islamic postition ) .The Founders of the Republic didn’t like what had been done in the name of Islam,so they declaredf Turkey a secular Republic.The wearing of religious garb is forbidden by either christians or muslims in public. An exception is made for the Patriarch of Costantinople and the Pope when he visits Turkey.
Pope John XXIII when Papal Nuncio to Turkey could not wear clerical garb in public.
Click to expand...
John,

Well, while I believe it takes secularism much too far, I am glad to learn (although ‘glad’ isn’t the correct word, obviously) that the ban on religious garb is not aimed at any one religion in Turkey, although I don’t think the same could be said for the bans imposed in Germany or France.

It just seems such an odd thing I suppose for a 21st century NATO country - I know nuns who fought like demons to come out of the traditional habits and I know priests who still run by home to change from collar to polo shirt so as not to be recognized as a priest at a grocery. I know of no male orthodox Jews, however, who would think of removing the smallest yarmulke before going out in public, no observant Islamic or orthodox Jewish women who would go out in public without a head covering of some sort.

Oh - does the ban apply to Jewish women who wear wigs as well? It would seem, in order to be consistent, that it must if the wig is worn because of religious beliefs but NOT if worn to simply be blonde one day, brunette the next, and a redhead on the third.

What a crazy world… there was a recent book or movie that quipped that anyone who frequents Turkey, I believe it was, must be in the business of spying. Now I will drive myself insane if I don’t have the reference in hand by daybreak tomorrow. What would truly put me in a bum mood, however, is to find the noted book or movie and find that the country spoken of was Morroco or Spain…
 
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Pentecost2005:
That doesn’t make Turkey European, or Western. But then, people addicted to power don’t usually concern themselves with preserving culture or civilization.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say it made Turkey European (except possibly in the eyes of the Turks themselves). The sequence of events was something like this: We (the U.S.) want to control (at least indirectly) the Bosporus, to prevent Soviet warships from leaving the Black Sea (or at least control their movements) → Turkey is brought into NATO in 1952. Couple that with the fact that many Turks work in Europe and bring European attitudes back with them, and you have the prevailing attitude among many Turks that Turkey is, in fact, a European country, not a Middle Eastern one.

Actually, Turkey’s government has been militantly secular since the founding of the republic in 1923 by Mustafa Kemal, who was very much a westernizer. The gov’t’s anti-religious stance leaves a bad taste in my mouth, in spite of the fact that most of the time the religion they’re against is Islam. However, it is a remnant of the philosophy of Turkey’s founding father.

Does anyone other than me find it interesting that the “pro-European” Turks are those who want to minimize the outward expressions of Islam, while the “pro-religious-freedom” Turks would have their country ruled by religious mutashaddideen?

DaveBj
 
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