Court Rules No Overtime for Priest-in-Training

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"(CN) - A Catholic seminary student who worked long hours as a janitor for a church in Washington cannot sue the diocese for overtime pay, a full panel of the 9th Circuit ruled Friday. The court ruled priests-in-training are not protected by some employment laws because of the “ministerial exception.”

Cesar Rosas claimed that he worked eight to nine hours a day, every day, at St. Mary Parish in Marysville, Wash., for a wage of $225 a week. After entering the seminary in 1995 in Mexico, he was assigned to do maintenance at the church and assist with the Mass, according to the ruling. Rosas filed a claim against the Corporation of the Catholic Archbishop of Seattle and the Rev. Horatio Yanez for overtime under Washington’s Minimum Wage Act. The district court ruled for the defendants, finding that Rosas was a minister, not a regular employee."

courthousenews.com/2010/12/10/32512.htm

I’m surprised he sued. That’s not a good start for a seminarian.
 
My thought as well. Probably won’t make it through his final vows…
 
SummitJim said:
My thought as well. Probably won’t make it through his final vows…
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He is a secular priest in training so there are no vows, but I agree that he will most likely not make it to ordination.
 
I wonder if his pay as a janitor, included the free education he was getting as a seminarian?

Jim
 
He won’t get overtime pay as a priest, either, and if he expects to, he’s in the wrong occupation.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I wonder if his pay as a janitor, included the free education he was getting as a seminarian?

Jim
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You don’t really get free education as a seminarian. When I was talking to the vocational director of the archdoicese, he informed me that I would have to pay $18,000 a year for seminary.
 
Domnall said:
You don’t really get free education as a seminarian. When I was talking to the vocational director of the archdoicese, he informed me that I would have to pay $18,000 a year for seminary.
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I believe the cost of education for a seminarian varies between dioceses. Some may request the seminarian to cover some of the cost of their education while others do not.
 
It’s unusual and impressive these days to find a judge in the USA who actually has some common sense and realises what the Catholic Chruch is and what its priests and seminarians are. Well done Judge.

Presumably the $225 pay per week is in addition to free accommodation and meals. Seems relatively generous.

However if as the story seems to say, Mr Rosas is made to do manual work 8 or 9 hours a day every day, even on Sundays and HDOs, except when actually assisting at Mass, the priest is wrong to order him to do so.
 
Without knowing all of the facts, it’s difficult to tell if he was treated fairly or not. How many days a week did he work? Did he work weekends and holidays? How many months or years did he work? Was he told about the expectations of the job prior to starting? Had others been employed and treated in a similar manner? Was his pay in addition to other benefits? Etc.

It’s possible that either he was treated fairly by the seminary, or that he was taken advantage of by the seminary. Either explanation is plausible and there have been plenty other examples of both.
 
Father_of_9 said:
It’s possible that either he was treated fairly by the seminary, or that he was taken advantage of by the seminary. Either explanation is plausible and there have been plenty other examples of both.
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Either way it involves religious training and I believe it is outside the jurisdiction of the court.
 
It may be outside the court’s jurisdiction, but the Church is morally obligated to treat him justly. There have been instances where Church employees or members were grossly underpaid or mistreated. Just because something can’t be challenged in the courts doesn’t relieve the employer or church from treating people fairly.
 
Father_of_9 said:
It may be outside the court’s jurisdiction, but the Church is morally obligated to treat him justly. There have been instances where Church employees or members were grossly underpaid or mistreated. Just because something can’t be challenged in the courts doesn’t relieve the employer or church from treating people fairly.
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And just because a claim is made against the church does not mean that the church acted unjustly or mistreated this employee in any way.
 
Here are some details"

vlex.com/vid/cesar-rosas-the-corporation-catholi-78598643

courtlistener.com/ca9/VLp/cesar-rosas-v-the-corporation-of-the-catholi/

This is as I see: Seminarians are tobe sent to parishes as ‘interns’ to perform religious duties.

In this case this duty included to assist in masses and other events, and also maintenance of the Church. With high probability the plaintiff received free room and board and also $225 weekly allowance.

His friend also a seminarian accused the pastor for sexual abuse and was dismissed. After this Cesar accused the parish and the diocese for breaking the minimum wage law.

The court opinion is that he was not an employee, but seminarian preparing for the priesthood, and thus the civil law about payments does not apply.
 
JimG said:
He won’t get overtime pay as a priest, either, and if he expects to, he’s in the wrong occupation.
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Yeah, really. What will he think when it’s 24/7?

When we lived in N.Carolina, I know of one Seminarian who was given a year off (to rethink some about some things, he said).

God Bless you.
+Peace On Earth, Good Will Toward Men.
Love, Dawn
 
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