Covenant...forever?

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reen12:
I guess I’ll have to go and state that I’m withdrawing
from Noahide status. Nothing in my life experience
leads me to believe that any good that I’ve done,
would somehow entitle me to God’s Presence.
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Great thread so far - in fact, I usually click the ones “Started By” reen12, as I know they’ll be interesting.

I hope you don’t mind this off-the-topic question, just to satisfy my curiosity, but what is a ‘Noahide’?
 
Hi, m4dc4p,
Great thread so far - in fact, I usually click the ones “Started By” reen12, as I know they’ll be interesting.

I hope you don’t mind this off-the-topic question, just to satisfy my curiosity, but what is a ‘Noahide’?
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I think a confused head makes for interesting posts! :o
Thank you for your kind words, m4dc4p.

OK, what’s a Noahide?

Basically, anyone not born a Jew, or who has
converted to Judaism. Everyone else
is consider Children of Noah. There are
7 commandments to be kept by a Noahide, who
recognizes the God of Israel…i.e. their Noahide
status, if you will. Not required to keep the Mosaic
Law etc.

All I can tell you, is, I’ve read some of the Fathers
of the Church, and I’ve read some of the Sages
of Israel, and I’m here to tell you, the humanity
of the Sages lights up whatever room I’m reading
in. An overwhelming love of God, coupled with
a deep understanding of the nature of human beings.

I’m reading a prayer book, with commentary, by a
rabbi named Hertz. And I’m thinking: Boy, this is
excellent. I wish this man were more well known.

Then I find out that Rabbi Hertz was, at one time,
the Chief Rabbi of the British Empire!
[talk about ignorance on my part.] The book was
printed in the 1940’s. *
I haven’t been this engrossed in a work for many years.

Every best wish, m4dc4p. I hope that I explained
Noahide well enough,
reen12*
 
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reen12:
The whole idea that one covenant can be
“fulfilled” [while no mention of “fulfillment” was made
in the Original Covenant] puts me in mind of a
modern day contract that would read:

This contract is binding on both parties 'til the
end of ages…unless one party to the contract
decides to fulfill it, differently than stated.
[eternal does not mean “eternal”] fine print

Who would sign a contract like that?

Best,
reen12
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Hi Reen12 –

I do think you’d enjoy Scott Hahn’s book as he also describes “covenant” in detail. A covenant is not merely a contract, it is a sacred family bond in which persons give themselves to one another in loving communion.

Hahn describes in his book the character of covenants which includes:
a covenant mediator and his role
blessings or promises
conditions (or curses)
the sign by which the covenant is celebrated or remembered
and the form of God’s family as a result of the covenant.

The major covenants of the bible are:
Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:26-2:3)
Noah and his family (Gen. 9:8-17)
Abraham and his descendents (Gen. 12:1-3, 17:1-4, 22:16-18)
Moses and the Israelites (Ex. 1:5-6, 3:4-10, 6:7)
David and the Kingdom of Israel (2 Sam. 7:18-19)
and Jesus (Matt. 26:28, 16:17-19)

If you read through these, you will see the characters of each covenant.

St. Augustine said “The New Covenant is concealed in the Old and the Old Covenant is revealed in the New.” They are inseparable.
 
reen12,

I was wondering what your interpretation is of the following verse from Jeremiah 31:
31"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,a] says the LORD. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
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On the surface, it seems pertinant, as this prophesy appears after the Covenant with Abraham. What do you think?

Shalom,
RyanL
 
Hi, RyanL,

I asked a question on Jer.31:31-32 on a Judaic site.
I’ll check on the replies I got and get back to
you tomorrow, OK?

It’s time for our nightly old-time movie! 🙂
hopefully followed by a Scoobey Doo cartoon.
*all *the time. :)]

I’ll post a reply tomorrow, if that’s OK with you, Ryan,

Best,
reen12
 
reen12,

God bless, enjoy your movie, pleasant dreams, and I’ll talk to you in the morning.

RyanL
 
Good morning, RyanL,

Here’s one of the references that was given to me
re: Jer. 31

messiahtruth.com/jer31.html

I think that the difficulty is, very few of us can read
Hebrew, or Greek. I’m conducting my own
research, to see if I can understand the Judaic
postions.

Best,
reen12
 
Good morning, reen12,

Please keep in mind when you read that site (or any other) that the Catholic Church is not a “King James Version Only” Church. There are a number of translations, many better than the KJV. The site you gave me presents a few “straw man” arguments, and is mainly geared at debunking fundimentalists. We are not fundimentalists.

When you have done the studying required, please let me know what your opinion is.

Shalom, and may God bless you richly,
RyanL
 
Hi, RyanL,

quote: RyanL
Please keep in mind when you read that site (or any other) that the Catholic Church is not a “King James Version Only” Church. There are a number of translations, many better than the KJV. The site you gave me presents a few “straw man” arguments, and is mainly geared at debunking fundimentalists. We are not fundimentalists.

When you have done the studying required, please let me know what your opinion is.
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Will do, RyanL. I’d say “I’ll keep you posted”, but that
would be a pun!

Best,
reen12
 
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reen12:
Wow, Dave, that was a great post!! Many, many thanks.
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Thank you.
Dave, I’m a looney, for lack of a better term.
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Dont’ be too hard on yourself, I think we are all looney to some extent. I have several friends and family who also suffer from depression and other disorders. Crosses such as these can be difficult to carry.
I know God loves me and will reward me, if for nothing else, than being brave.
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One of my favorite quotes from a Protestant is this one from Lucretia Mott, “We will be judged more by our likeness to Christ than our notions of Him.”

Which is similar, I think, to what Archbishop Fulton Sheen wrote: "It makes no difference what you do here on earth; what matters is the love with which you do it." (Archbishop Fulton Sheen, Seven Words of Jesus and Mary, 30)
You are excellent at Apologetics, Dave.
Have you ever thought of becoming a deacon,
when you’ve completed your military career?

Thank you for your service to our country.
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Thank you. I have considered the deaconate and am still praying about it. Like the military, the deaconate is not just a job, but a calling. Right now, I’m working on an MA in Theology. I think I’d like to teach theology after I retire, whether the Sacrament of Holy Orders is in my future or not.
 
in reference to the origional question, I have found that had Pascal a very intresting point of view on the matter.

There are two covenants one through the Israelites and one through Christ.

*of Adam’s surviving sons, Cain is cursed and Seth is blessed,
*of Abraham’s sons, Ishamael is cast off and Isaac is blessed,
*of Isaac’s sons, Esau is hated and Jacob is loved,
*Aaron lead the people to sin while Moses brought the covenant,
*the first set of Tablets were broken while the second remained whole,
*Saul, the first king of Israel, sinned while David was a man after God’s own heart,
*Solomon was the second son of David by Bathsheba

this pattern is repeated throughout the old testament, it is the second that follows God and is blessed. Does this apply to Israel? Yes God promised to keep them, but then again he also promised to destroy them.
 
Small wonder that I find God, and the peace of God
[shalom] within Israel.
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Dear Sister,

How long have you been away from the Catholic Church?

Peace in Christ Jesus,

Terri
 
Please, all who read this thread, my sister-in-law

passed away this morning, at the age of 59. She was
my dear friend and my heart is broken. Please pray
for my family, over the next 4 days,

Thank you,
Maureen…reen12
 
I will certainly be praying for your sister-in-law and for your family. May God give you His peace and consolation in this difficult time.
 
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reen12:
Please, all who read this thread, my sister-in-law

passed away this morning, at the age of 59. She was
my dear friend and my heart is broken. Please pray
for my family, over the next 4 days,

Thank you,
Maureen…reen12
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May the lord be with you and your family. I will be honored to pray for the soul of your loved one.

Terri
 
Thank you Grace and Glory and Terri,

I could feel the support of your prayers during the
difficult times last night and earlier today.
God bless you for your kindness,

Maureen
 
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