Covering hair at Mass

[babochka]

babochka:

adgloriam:

The sight of a girl’s hair can be distracting at mass, as it shows beauty.

So can a beautiful, lacy, shimmery veil. So can a bright red scarf, a fancy hat, a white veil in a sea of black, a pink veil, or a sole woman with her head covered in a church full of bare heads.

Nope. No substitute for natural beauty. God the Father made them beautiful in good reason.

And some beautiful veils, such as those shown earlier in this thread, are designed to enhance natural beauty, not to hide it. I don’t believe that it is wrong to wear a veil that enhances your natural beauty, I just think it is a bit silly to deny the obvious.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

As usual this is disintergrating into those who wear veils, scarves, etc and those who think it is some kind of showing off

Honestly, I’m shocked this thread has remained civil this long. One bad apple soils the bunch as they say.

 

[adgloriam]

So any female that doesn’t look like Quasimodo should wear a hockey mask at Mass so her pretty face isn’t distracting?

Did I say that? I did not say that…

Although Saint Peter and Saint Timothy did seem to take notice:

1Tim2:9. adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles

1Pe3:3. such as elaborate hairstyles

 

[adgloriam]

Well, one thing is practicing custody of the eyes; the other thing is a person sitting straight in your field of vision.

The thread, as it goes, distracts from the more engaging issue of beauty. And, scripture, (you can blame the psalmists) does contain several opportune glances and comments on beauty. And I find that brilliant!! Because I struggle with the issue…! [And I don’t think beauty is a negative thing, nor should it be taken as such.]

Now. Have I been faced with some wildly immodest clothing inside mass? Yes…The last one I can remember was actually a bikini top…

And, yes. I do feel thankful to some of my Muslim friends because there was a time in my life when their head-covering was one of the few visible signs of chastity I saw throughout the day.

 

[babochka]

babochka:

The person who is seriously distracted by a woman’s natural beauty during Mass should learn to practice custody of the eyes.

Nope. Not one sided. Responsibility is placed on both parties.

Where does it end? What if a man is distracted by a woman’s beautiful voice? Should she not sing, so as not to distract a man who is trying to pray? What if her beautiful voice brings about envy in me, who can’t carry a tune in a bucket? Is that her responsibility? What if he is distracted by her very presence, by her scent, or, as my husband just asked, by her pheromones?

I utterly disagree with you here. There is no shared responsibility.

If a man, in this culture, is distracted by a woman with a bare head to the extent that it is of significant concern, he really needs to work on his problem.

Or perhaps seek out a Coptic Church, where the men and women generally stand separately, on different sides of the church. That would solve the problem nicely.

 

[adgloriam]

What if a man is distracted by a woman’s beautiful voice?

I sing in the choir, frequently the only man among a few dozen ladies.

What if her beautiful voice brings about envy in me, who can’t carry a tune in a bucket?

Join the choir

husband just asked, by her pheromones?

Tell your husband to be understanding of all those good man that haven’t seen a woman in decades.

he really needs to work on his problem.

Chastity, as composure, are everyday challenges.

to the extent that it is of significant concern

I never said it was a significant problem. But only a hypocrite would say it isn’t there.

There is no shared responsibility.

Each has his own responsibility (which does not dismiss modesty)
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[babochka]

Where are the babushkas and kerchiefs (kerchives?) or head bands which passes as head covering for some orthodox Jews? What? No one is called to “headband?”

I wear a headband. Mostly because it is subtle enough to not bring unwanted attention to myself.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I think DarkLight often wears a headband. When I considered headcovering I started with headbands and thought maybe I would graduate toward hats. I discovered that hat wearing is an art which does not come naturally to me.

 

[babochka]

ing in the choir, frequently the only man among a few dozen ladies.

You don’t find this distracting, but you find the sight of a woman’s hair distracting?

Join the choir

Trust me, I’m not wanted in the choir.

Tell your husband to be understanding of all those good man that haven’t seen a woman in decades.

Have these men been in a monastery? Prison? Either way, it is time to get used to seeing and interacting with women in the modern, western world.

Each has his own responsibility (which does not dismiss modesty)

I guess I disagree with your (apparent) premise that it is immodest for a woman to have a bare head in church.

 

[DarkLight]

I think DarkLight often wears a headband. When I considered headcovering I started with headbands and thought maybe I would graduate toward hats. I discovered that hat wearing is an art which does not come naturally to me.

I do, yes; it’s what I started with. Nowadays I’ve worn a lot of things - although none of them are a traditional mantilla. But then I also actually do wear hats and scarves and lacy things a lot just in everyday life. So throwing the lace scarf I was wearing around my shoulders at work over my head instead is no big deal. (The only mantilla I own I actually picked up by accident. It was part of a scarf bundle at goodwill and I just like black lace, and they had another pretty scarf in there as well.)

I’ve been told my sense of style is eccentric anyway though.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Use a bobby pin or two to make sure your mantilla doesn’t come off.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

If you look at an iconostas in a Byzantine church,
you’ll notice that the icon of the Theotokos is always on one side and the icon of Our Lord is on the other side. Reason: Traditionally, the men sit on the side of Our Lord and the women sit on the side of the Theotokos.

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[Bruised_Reed]

I wear infinity scarves qite a bit during the colder months so, if I had to, I could pull part of the scarf over my head.

 

[DarkLight]

I don’t exactly have the hair to anchor bobby pins in. And honestly, even when it was long, bobby pins didn’t stay in unless I put hairspray or gel on them to make them stick in my hair.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Sometimes I use two bobby pins - one in the middle of my forehead and one on the crown of my head like this: | and –

 

[babochka]

That is why I suggested that he find a Coptic Church, where this is still practiced. He might be more comfortable in such an environment.

 

[DarkLight]

There is about a half-inch of hair on top of my head. This is because the stuff is utterly intractable at any length past that. Unless combed and braided and sprayed into submission after about 2 hours it looks like I slept in. I eventually gave up and cut the stuff off. I would love the long neat hair look, but I don’t like spending lots of time just to keep it from looking like I don’t know how to use a hairbrush.

Trust me, me and bobbypins do not get along.

 

[adgloriam]

I guess I disagree with your (apparent) premise that it is immodest for a woman to have a bare head in church.

I never said that, a practice can be more modest or less modest -difference in degree. Immodest is altogether a different word, the negation or antithesis of modesty.

Have these men been in a monastery? Prison? Either way, it is time to get used to seeing and interacting with women in the modern, western world.

Just these past few months I was again meeting a few man that are chaste (a somewhat confusing experience for them). Let me assure you, I find nothing in your dialogue indicative of an apologetic of chastity - which is, should be said, perhaps one of the most difficult catechesis that a person can be called to give.

Goes with your “pheromones” statement (I take these as humor coming from you), which is by definition: SENSUAL (pertaining to the senses) and sexual. And thus, by definition, against chastity - the commandment is keeping chastity in word. Which is of a completely different order (subtly so) from the immediate unavoidable body/mind perception of beauty. Capital sin is, by definition, the predisposition in our spirits and souls that precedes sin (which is completely different from willingly verbalizing a sensuality of the sexual order). And again, both beauty and attraction in their principals are not yet sins, just cognition of the immediate.

adgloriam:

ing in the choir, frequently the only man among a few dozen ladies.

You don’t find this distracting, but you find the sight of a woman’s hair distracting?

Indeed, it is so. Because, the sight of a woman is only distract as long as you don’t know her and haven’t spoken with her. Instantly, past that point, charity takes that place and the sight (and all other senses) stop being distracting. In fact, I am distracted for a split second until I thank God for being among my sisters in Christ, after that the problem is gone. It is however much harder when I don’t know the persons. -JPII said approximately that much.

And the head covering solves that distraction completely.

women in the modern, western world.

The western world that wore head covering is still alive in fact. And if you take modernity as synonymous with pedantic ignorance and incomprehension of recent past, together with a secularized exaltation of sensuality, I’d say you’re right.

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[alice24]

If you forget your mantilla at home do you cover with a tissue? If not, it’s an affectation.

Well, No. If I don’t use a tissue in such a case this only means that it’s not that important for me. “Not that important” isn’t the same as affection. This is not black and white.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

It depends. Do you “veil” or do you wear a veil or other headcovering? I make a distinction. I think “veiling” is the affectation.