Coworker is Questioning "Church of Christ" - help me guide her

[ProdglArchitect]

Hello all. I’ve recently begun preliminary discussions with one of my coworkers. She is a member of the “Church of Christ,” but has confided in me that she has been soul searching and that the church hasn’t been fulfilling her spiritual needs.

She has claimed that she will not consider the Catholic Church, citing infant baptism as one reason (the only one she’s given so far, we’ve only had one discussion). I will admit that this is a subject I am not well versed in. She also claims that the sins of the fathers are not passed on to the children, which is why she doesn’t believe in infant baptism. It is my understanding that the Church agrees with this, and that infant baptism is to remove the stain which blocks us from God’s Grace… Like I said, I’m not well versed on this one…

From my own preliminary research, it appears that the Church of Christ is Calvinistic in origins, believing there to be secret doctrines that were lost and then rediscovered by Martin Luther. That’s pretty much all I know though.

I am looking for any help at all, about what they believe, and about how to approach subjects on which they differ from Catholicism. I really feel like I have a chance to bring someone to the True Church that Jesus Christ started; and I don’t want to miss this opportunity.

Thank you very much, with your help hopefully we can bring someone into true communion with Christ.

God Bless!

 

[JRKH]

Since she “will not consider Catholicism”, I’m not sure that any arguments from a “Catholic” perspective will be availing.

Like you I know little about the “Church of Christ”. I understand though that they are not very well organized doctrinally and so teaching can vary widely from congregation to congregation.

I would suggest not getting too involved in doctrinal discussions right now. Focus instead on why she feels her spiritual needs aren’t being met. What things are lacking - what her questions (rather than opinions) are. Offer to pray with her. The more that she trusts you as a fellow Christian (rather than specifically Catholic) the better. The more that you can affirm her and lovingly support her the softer will be her heart and view of the Church.
Questions of infant baptism and the stain of original sin can wait.

Of course I know that others here will provide you with much information on these…but I just thought I’d pop in with my 2-cents…

Peace
James

 

[qui_est_ce]

Since she “will not consider Catholicism”, I’m not sure that any arguments from a “Catholic” perspective will be availing.

Like you I know little about the “Church of Christ”. I understand though that they are not very well organized doctrinally and so teaching can vary widely from congregation to congregation.

I would suggest not getting too involved in doctrinal discussions right now. Focus instead on why she feels her spiritual needs aren’t being met. What things are lacking - what her questions (rather than opinions) are. Offer to pray with her. The more that she trusts you as a fellow Christian (rather than specifically Catholic) the better. The more that you can affirm her and lovingly support her the softer will be her heart and view of the Church.
Questions of infant baptism and the stain of original sin can wait.

Of course I know that others here will provide you with much information on these…but I just thought I’d pop in with my 2-cents…

Peace
James

I agree with this. There are verses in the Bible to back up everything the Church teaches, including infant baptism. What often happens then is what I call “verse slinging.”

You are better off to ask her questions and go from there. She is already in a questioning frame of mind. She may well question “infant baptism, why not?”

PS. Hint, infant circumcision=Baptism!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Thanks for the help and advice, I’ll do my best to keep it in mind while I’m talking with her.

 

[JRKH]

Don’t know how much help they might be as I haven’t watched them, but if you go HERE You will find that top two Journey Home episodes are former Church of Christ ministers…
Might be worth a look.

Peace
James

 

[COPLAND_3]

Being a former Protestant myself, and from experience with dialogue with Protestants, rarely do I run into someone who has an open mind looking for truth where ever it may lead. Going by the little information you shared about her it looks a little like she may be looking for a church that suits her rather than looking for the Church that God established. Among most Protestant circles when many find themselves not being fed spiritually as they might say, they are usually unhappy or bored with either a less than animated preacher, or the choir may not be ‘kickin it’ like they want, or the carpet in the sanctuary may not be the color they prefer. Protestant churches have gotten to a point where they are competing with eachother to see if they can provide cooler trends and entertainment than the other churches in town.

I would make sure that you present yourself as a devoted and serious Catholic Christian and let that be the power to turn hearts!

 

[sousley]

OP- From my own preliminary research, it appears that the Church of Christ is Calvinistic in origins, believing there to be secret doctrines that were lost and then rediscovered by Martin Luther. That’s pretty much all I know though.

I am not sure either but that doesn’t sound right.

From JRKH—Like you I know little about the “Church of Christ”. I understand though that they are not very well organized doctrinally and so teaching can vary widely from congregation to congregation.

That sounds right. At least, assuming that it’s the one Campbell started in the 19th century. There was some discourse from the beginning even with the name (Church of Christ, Disciples of Christ, Christian Church). They were started their Church(s) from biblical interpretation and rejected any prior church or doctrine so their teachings do vary widely.

Catholic, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist among others all practice infant baptism, including Calvin.

Like others posters have said, convincing someone about doctrines is usually a tough row to hoe. Just be Catholic: pray before you eat, make the sign of the cross, smile, etc. Remember: “I’d rather see a sermon than hear one”.

 

[jcrichton]

Hello all. I’ve recently begun preliminary discussions with one of my coworkers. She is a member of the “Church of Christ,” but has confided in me that she has been soul searching and that the church hasn’t been fulfilling her spiritual needs.

She has claimed that she will not consider the Catholic Church, citing infant baptism as one reason (the only one she’s given so far, we’ve only had one discussion). I will admit that this is a subject I am not well versed in. She also claims that the sins of the fathers are not passed on to the children, which is why she doesn’t believe in infant baptism. It is my understanding that the Church agrees with this, and that infant baptism is to remove the stain which blocks us from God’s Grace… Like I said, I’m not well versed on this one…

From my own preliminary research, it appears that the Church of Christ is Calvinistic in origins, believing there to be secret doctrines that were lost and then rediscovered by Martin Luther. That’s pretty much all I know though.

I am looking for any help at all, about what they believe, and about how to approach subjects on which they differ from Catholicism. I really feel like I have a chance to bring someone to the True Church that Jesus Christ started; and I don’t want to miss this opportunity.

Thank you very much, with your help hopefully we can bring someone into true communion with Christ.

God Bless!

Hi!

…since you’ve just started dialogue… I think that the best that you can do is keep it simple and one issue at a time…

If your friend is agreeable, you can learn with her about the Faith… just make sure that you spend enough time researching Catholic Teaching from a Catholic source/s (Vatican, newadvent, the CCC, this site)…

Just like you, I am not well versed in many aspects of our Faith… as for infant Baptism, there’s Biblical proof that importan events did not take place in the exclusion of children… the fact that Scriptures speaks of adults being Baptized is simple: Jesus’ Ministry was preceded by John the Baptist who set out to Baptize people into the new Covenant (Baptism of water only)–what was the makeup of the general audience/gatherings if not mostly adult males? Then there’s the cultural thing–females and children were mostly silent/overlooked… but chek out the prophecies that speaks about John’s travails:

3 A voice cries, ‘Prepare in the desert a way for Yahweh. Make a straight highway for our God across the wastelands. 4 Let every valley be filled in, every mountain and hill be levelled, every cliff become a plateau, every escarpment a plain; 5 then the glory of Yahweh will be revealed and all humanity will see it together, for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken.’ (Isaiah 40:3-5)

23 ‘Look, I shall send you the prophet Elijah before the great and awesome Day of Yahweh comes. 24 He will reconcile parents to their children and children to their parents, to forestall my putting the country under the curse of destruction.’ (Malachi 3:23-24)

…did you noticed that there’s not a single command to Baptize only adults?

…then there’s the problem of age limit–Scriptures do not demonstrate even a single designation of “age appropriateness;” the only time Scriptures are exact about children’s age and mandates about worship/service (other than about circumcision and presentation at the Temple) is not as an exclusionary mandate but an inclusive one:

15 Blow the ram’s-horn in Zion! Order a fast, proclaim a solemn assembly, 16 call the people together, summon the community, assemble the elders, gather the children, even infants at the breast! Call the bridegroom from his bedroom and the bride from her bower! (Joel 2:15-16)

…can John’s Baptism (the Conversion of Israel) be less important a matter or would the same people that Baptized themselves for their dead loved ones think that infant/children Baptism was an overkill?:

Otherwise, what are people up to who have themselves baptised on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, what is the point of being baptised on their behalf? (1 Corinthians 15:29)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[fred_conty]

Ask her if she has every heard of Fatima or Lourdes. She can look them up on line. Plant seed.

Just a thought.

 

[po18guy]

Ask her if she has every heard of Fatima or Lourdes. She can look them up on line. Plant seed.

Just a thought.

Personal anecdote: Before I was even Christian, I travelled to Lourdes with my wife on vacation. At her insistence, I crossed myself with water from the grotto. About a week and a half later, we “accidentally” encountered Pope John Paul II’s motorcade in Genoa. I was in the crowd that received his Apostolic blessing as he passed. I was in RCIA the next year. But, Saint Bernadette, the patron Saint of bodily illness, was not finished with me. I was diagnosed with stage 4 non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in July 2008. I had “innumerable” tumors and cancer in my bone marrow. It defeated eight different chemotherapy drugs and I was scheduled for palliative care and hospice. At that exact time, a clinical trial of an experimental drug opened up that was aimed at my exact rare lymphoma. It went into remission and has remained there for close to four years now. When I look at Saint Bernadette’s photograph, it brings tears.

 

[JRKH]

Personal anecdote: Before I was even Christian, I travelled to Lourdes with my wife on vacation. At her insistence, I crossed myself with water from the grotto. About a week and a half later, we “accidentally” encountered Pope John Paul II’s motorcade in Genoa. I was in the crowd that received his Apostolic blessing as he passed. I was in RCIA the next year. But, Saint Bernadette, the patron Saint of bodily illness, was not finished with me. I was diagnosed with stage 4 non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in July 2008. I had “innumerable” tumors and cancer in my bone marrow. It defeated eight different chemotherapy drugs and I was scheduled for palliative care and hospice. At that exact time, a clinical trial of an experimental drug opened up that was aimed at my exact rare lymphoma. It went into remission and has remained there for close to four years now. When I look at Saint Bernadette’s photograph, it brings tears.

Thanks for sharing this…

Peace
James

 

[po18guy]

Hello all. I’ve recently begun preliminary discussions with one of my coworkers…I am looking for any help at all, about what they believe, and about how to approach subjects on which they differ from Catholicism. I really feel like I have a chance to bring someone to the True Church that Jesus Christ started; and I don’t want to miss this opportunity.

I believe that an excellent help, at this point in her journey, would be Catholicism for Dummies. It covers and explains virtually all aspects of Catholicism in an easily read and understood format. It was co-written by Fr. John Trigilio, who is heard frequently on Catholic Answers Live, and Fr. Kenneth Brighenti. She could therefore read and investigate at her own pace, and at those times when she felt most spiritually unfulfilled in her current communion. I highly recommend it.

Another possibility: After some conversation, consider inviting her to adoration of the Blessed Sacrament with you. On many occasions, simply being in Christ’s true presence has caused conversions.

 

[jcrichton]

I believe that an excellent help, at this point in her journey, would be Catholicism for Dummies. It covers and explains virtually all aspects of Catholicism in an easily read and understood format. It was co-written by Fr. John Trigilio, who is heard frequently on Catholic Answers Live, and Fr. Kenneth Brighenti. She could therefore read and investigate at her own pace, and at those times when she felt most spiritually unfulfilled in her current communion. I highly recommend it.

Another possibility: After some conversation, consider inviting her to adoration of the Blessed Sacrament with you. On many occasions, simply being in Christ’s true presence has caused conversions.

Excellent point–this is so low key that one can only experience contemplative prayer… the more quiet we are…

Merry Christmas!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[fred_conty]

If and when infant baptism should arise again, approach it from holliness. Adam lost holliness. Baptism restores it. If they disagree, then drop it. You planted a seed, let it grow. Water that seed by saying a prayer.

Just a thought.

 

[po18guy]

If and when infant baptism should arise again, approach it from holliness. Adam lost holliness. Baptism restores it. If they disagree, then drop it. You planted a seed, let it grow. Water that seed by saying a prayer.

Just a thought.

Or, the OP could remind her that the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, and even many Reformed Churches hold to infant Baptism. Rejection of infant baptism is a minority viewpoint. If babies do not need baptism, then why do adults? Can’t we simply rely on God’ mercy the same way children do?

Remind her of the incident in scripture (Matthew 9:1-8, Mark 2:1-5, Luke 5:17-20) where the faith of the paralytic’s friends brought about the man’s healing. There is zero evidence that the man himself had any faith at all. How is that possible?

 

[mackbrislawn]

Hello all. I’ve recently begun preliminary discussions with one of my coworkers. She is a member of the “Church of Christ,” but has confided in me that she has been soul searching and that the church hasn’t been fulfilling her spiritual needs.

She has claimed that she will not consider the Catholic Church, citing infant baptism as one reason (the only one she’s given so far, we’ve only had one discussion). I will admit that this is a subject I am not well versed in. She also claims that the sins of the fathers are not passed on to the children, which is why she doesn’t believe in infant baptism. It is my understanding that the Church agrees with this, and that infant baptism is to remove the stain which blocks us from God’s Grace… Like I said, I’m not well versed on this one…

From my own preliminary research, it appears that the Church of Christ is Calvinistic in origins, believing there to be secret doctrines that were lost and then rediscovered by Martin Luther. That’s pretty much all I know though.

I am looking for any help at all, about what they believe, and about how to approach subjects on which they differ from Catholicism. I really feel like I have a chance to bring someone to the True Church that Jesus Christ started; and I don’t want to miss this opportunity.

Thank you very much, with your help hopefully we can bring someone into true communion with Christ.

God Bless!

According to a Church of Christ evangelist I talked with, they began in a “Great Awakening” in the early 1800’s. They looked around (Campbell, et al) and saw all the different denominations and decided that was not the way it shold be. And that the reason for all the man-made denominations was all the man-made creeds and confessions, such as the Westminster Confession, the Augsburg creed, and so on. So, they said, let’s forget what Martin Luther said, what, Calvin wrote, Wesley taught. Let’s go “back to the bible.” And so they did.

And, from a Catholic perspective, here is the interesting part. By scripture alone, they arrived at a very Catholic understanding of soteriology, of salvation. Quite unlike the Reformers faith alone or predestination ideas. They do not teach Luther’s notions at all, and they are very anti-Calvin, and teach specifically against him. True, they do not believe in original sin, nor infant baptism, but they do believe in the efficacy of baptism in removing sin. To them baptism is not a symbol at all, unlike the opinion of many evangelical Protestants.

So, COC is very Catholic in many ways, probably unbeknowest to your friend. It is unCatholic in its disbelief in original sin, baptism of infants, and its concept of church, being very congregational.