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StAnastasia
Guest
The poster said: “Thus, the theory of evolution is irrelevant.” That is a quaint notion to biologists, just as “The theory of gravity is irrelevant” would be a quaint notion to astronomers.
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Luke65
Guest
The theory of evolution is irrelevant to the example that we were responding to. But you’re right, its very relevant to all those who want an “intellectually fulfilling” way to reject God - according to God’s plan.The poster said: “Thus, the theory of evolution is irrelevant.” That is a quaint notion to biologists, just as “The theory of gravity is irrelevant” would be a quaint notion to astronomers.
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Orogeny
Guest
Who is this “we”? Let’s see your data.We and others have tested dinosaur bones from across the US and found a range of ages from 7,000 to 55,000 years ago, contradicting the evolution legend of 65 million years since the extinction of the last dino.
Peace
Tim
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StAnastasia
Guest
Luke, you need to procure some college education, and learn a little bit more about the world. Do you realize there are numerous Catholic priests who are evolutionary biologists? Do you know about SOSc – the Society of Ordained Scientists? There are women and men who are ordained and who also practice as scientists. God is very real to them, as is the world of science in which they work, study, and teach.The theory of evolution is irrelevant to the example that we were responding to. But you’re right, its very relevant to all those who want an “intellectually fulfilling” way to reject God - according to God’s plan.
Your claims about evolution may convince the invincibly ignorant, but they certainly do nothing to convince educated Christians, including the 300 theologians, philosophers, historians and scientists with whom I discussed evolution at the conference in Rome in March. They will carry little eight outside Catholic Answers.
StAnastasia
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ricmat
Guest
StA - you smugness and pride and arrogance is astonishing.Luke, you need to procure some college education, and learn a little bit more about the world. Do you realize there are numerous Catholic priests who are evolutionary biologists? Do you know about SOSc – the Society of Ordained Scientists? There are women and men who are ordained and who also practice as scientists. God is very real to them, as is the world of science in which they work, study, and teach.
Your claims about evolution may convince the invincibly ignorant, but they certainly do nothing to convince educated Christians, including the 300 theologians, philosophers, historians and scientists with whom I discussed evolution at the conference in Rome in March. They will carry little eight outside Catholic Answers.
StAnastasia
Why would you assume that it is important for anyone to convince “the 300 theologians, philosophers, historians and scientists with whom I discussed evolution at the conference in Rome”? No doubt this is important to you - why is that? Is the estimation of you in the eyes of those 300 actually important to you? And it seems that it is very important to you that all of us here are continually reminded that you went to Rome and participated in a conference.
And why do you assume that “degrees” impart wisdom?
1 Corinthians 3:
18 Let no one deceive himself. If any one among you considers himself wise in this age, let him become a fool so as to become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in the eyes of God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own ruses,” 20 and again: “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.”
And Romans 12:16
do not be wise in your own estimation.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Your twisting of my words is curious. I mentioned neither degrees nor wisdom.And why do you assume that “degrees” impart wisdom?
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ricmat
Guest
Most recently, to another poster you said:Your twisting of my words is curious. I mentioned neither degrees nor wisdom.
“you need to procure some college education, and learn a little bit more about the world.”
In light of many of your previous posts, you seem to put a lot of faith in advanced degrees, although you mentioned only “some college education” this time.
But to repeat my last post: Why would you assume that it is important for anyone to convince “the 300 theologians, philosophers, historians and scientists with whom I discussed evolution at the conference in Rome”? No doubt this is important to you - why is that? Is the estimation of you in the eyes of those 300 actually important to you? And it seems that it is very important to you that all of us here are continually reminded that you went to Rome and participated in a conference.
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edwest2
Guest
Evolutionism is the primary weapon of the new atheist. I don’t write this to be contentious but because it’s true. Evolution as change over time is not proven to the Church’s satisfaction and I think you know that. The point of contention will always be between those who come here and state that science says nothing about God or the soul and then turn around and tell Catolics how science has proven something in the Bible wrong. And I think you know that too.Luke, you need to procure some college education, and learn a little bit more about the world. Do you realize there are numerous Catholic priests who are evolutionary biologists? Do you know about SOSc – the Society of Ordained Scientists? There are women and men who are ordained and who also practice as scientists. God is very real to them, as is the world of science in which they work, study, and teach.
Your claims about evolution may convince the invincibly ignorant, but they certainly do nothing to convince educated Christians, including the 300 theologians, philosophers, historians and scientists with whom I discussed evolution at the conference in Rome in March. They will carry little eight outside Catholic Answers.
StAnastasia
Adam and Eve – two individuals, not a population.
Viruses and bacteria have the built-in ability to change, and when they do change, always remain viruses and bacteria.
Peace,
Ed
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StAnastasia
Guest
I don’t put “faith” in advanced degrees; I put faith in God. You also confuse knowledge with wisdom.Most recently, to another poster you said: "you need to procure some college education, and learn a little bit more about the world."In light of many of your previous posts, you seem to put a lot of faith in advanced degrees, although you mentioned only “some college education” this time.
Look at it this way: I don’t know what Luke’s profession is – carpenter? truck driver? dentist? – but it’s clearly not that of scientist. Suppose he/she is a truck driver, and knows a lot about driving trucks. Suppose that week after week I – who am not a truck driver – keep posting wild claims about what trucking can or cannot accomplish (e.g., trucks cannot exceed 55 mph), and that no matter what Luke tells me from her or his base of experience, I keep coming back to the same absurd claims (e.g., trucks cannot travel faster than 55 mph, trucks cannot travel in the winter, etc.) Luke would not take me seriously, because I am speaking about trucking from my ignorance about trucking.
By the same token, there is no reason for theologians or scientists to take Luke seriously, because he/she is speaking about science out of apparent ignorance of science. Evolutionary biology has been very successful, and is practiced daily by 100,000 biologists adding to human knowledge. There is no more reason for them to stop working because of what Luke believes, than for all truckers to stop working because of what I believe. That would be silly!
StAnastasia
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buffalo
Guest
Even truck drivers can know science.I don’t put “faith” in advanced degrees; I put faith in God. You also confuse knowledge with wisdom.
Look at it this way: I don’t know what Luke’s profession is – carpenter? truck driver? dentist? – but it’s clearly not that of scientist. Suppose he/she is a truck driver, and knows a lot about driving trucks. Suppose that week after week I – who am not a truck driver – keep posting wild claims about what trucking can or cannot accomplish (e.g., trucks cannot exceed 55 mph), and that no matter what Luke tells me from her or his base of experience, I keep coming back to the same absurd claims (e.g., trucks cannot travel faster than 55 mph, trucks cannot travel in the winter, etc.) Luke would not take me seriously, because I am speaking about trucking from my ignorance about trucking.
By the same token, there is no reason for theologians or scientists to take Luke seriously, because he/she is speaking about science out of apparent ignorance of science. Evolutionary biology has been very successful, and is practiced daily by 100,000 biologists adding to human knowledge. There is no more reason for them to stop working because of what Luke believes, than for all truckers to stop working because of what I believe. That would be silly!
StAnastasia
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StAnastasia
Guest
Ed, I certainly agree with you about evolutionary atheism. As a conservative, you probably agree with the NRA slogan, “Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.” Similarly, “Evolution doesn’t make atheists; atheists make atheists.”Evolutionism is the primary weapon of the new atheist.Peace,
Ed
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StAnastasia
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Correct. And even scientists can know truck-driving. But that doesn’t give a scientist greater knowledge about driving than a truck driver, or a truck drive greater knowledge about science than a scientist.Even truck drivers can know science.
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buffalo
Guest
Why not? Are we talking experience or raw knowledge?Correct. And even scientists can know truck-driving. But that doesn’t give a scientist greater knowledge about driving than a truck driver, or a truck drive greater knowledge about science than a scientist.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Why not what?Why not? Are we talking experience or raw knowledge?
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edwest2
Guest
Go to any atheist forum. Their biggest concern is that Creation or Intelligent Design will be forced into the schools. Are they concerned about science? No. They are concerned about losing what they view as a power struggle. Speaking generally, that is the concern of some posters here. They need to swat down any mention of ID/Creationism because they firmly believe it threatens their power base. Simple as that.Ed, I certainly agree with you about evolutionary atheism. As a conservative, you probably agree with the NRA slogan, “Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.” Similarly, “Evolution doesn’t make atheists; atheists make atheists.”
Atheists often say that religion is some man-made idea designed to control people. Catholics know that is not true. No one comes to your house to scold you if you miss Mass. However, the current mass marketing campaign for atheism and hedonism is going full blast on all media platforms, including here.
Peace,
Ed
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ricmat
Guest
Wisdom is more important than knowledge. I know that. Do you?I don’t put “faith” in advanced degrees; I put faith in God. You also confuse knowledge with wisdom.
You’ve refused to answer my questions twice. Why is important that he/she is taken seriously by theologians or scientists?…By the same token, there is no reason for theologians or scientists to take X seriously, because he/she is speaking about science out of apparent ignorance of science.
I guess I missed the part about X wanting biologists to stop working. Was that actually posted someplace?Evolutionary biology has been very successful, and is practiced daily by 100,000 biologists adding to human knowledge. There is no more reason for them to stop working because of what X believes, than for all truckers to stop working because of what I believe. That would be silly!
StAnastasia
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StAnastasia
Guest
Which evolutionists on CAF are marketing atheism and hedonism?However, the current mass marketing campaign for atheism and hedonism is going full blast on all media platforms, including here.Peace,Ed
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StAnastasia
Guest
It’s not important.Why is important that he/she is taken seriously by theologians or scientists?
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Alethios
Guest
There is no valid evidence for evolution, according to the self-imposed standards of science. No experiments show unequivocally that evolution is occurring now, or has occurred in the past.The fact that scientists have evidence for evolution happening is beyond refute at this point, but it isn’t absolutely positively true. Nothing in science ever is.
The scientific method requires confirmation by:
- experimentation, not speculation
- repeatability
- falsifiability
We don’t.
We won’t.
Well, not the 'Church" but what the Magisterium says is evidence, faithful and true… to believers, that is.So then, what the Church says is evidence? That’s an argument from authority and therefore not logically valid. It is however valid within the construct of faith and I accept that.
BTW, belief in the testimony of credible eyewitnesses is logically valid.
Or should we hold that one must personally test all the laws of science before believing science textbooks?
AMDG
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Alethios
Guest
If *genetic relationship * refers to variation within kinds - micro evolution - then this is easily verified as true by citing the breeding of plants and animals.…The fact of genetic relationship is most coherently explained by natural selection and descent with modification.
If *genetic relationship * refers to variation between kinds - macro evolution - then this is easily shown to be false by again citing the breeding of plants and animals. No new kind(species?) of lifeform has evolved by artificial selection using natural means.
More precisely, the Magisterium has been opposed to heliocentrism, as a theory which contradicts Biblical inerrancy.The Church has been critical of heliocentrism …
Copernicanism/heliocentrism has already been shown in a prior challenge thread to be logically inconsistent and a scientific rule-breaker, as well.
Cardinal Schoenborn himself is now unfortunately in the position of denying the truth of Genesis as written, as well as defending his actions - or inactions - in dealing with gay activities within the Diocese of Vienna.…As Cardinal Schoenborn wrote in Finding Design in Nature, the Church now finds itself in the position of defending reason itself.
*Der Kardinal *needs our prayers badly, in English or German.
AMDG
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