Cradle Catholics v. RCIA Catholics

[thenewmrssears]

I was listening to the radio a bit ago, and the discussion was focused around the idea that RCIA Catholics tend to be “more Catholic” than Cradle Catholics.

They were using the phrase “more Catholic” to describe going to Church more frequently, following the Church’s teachings, knowing the content and applicable verses in the Bible, attending confession more regularly, etc.

I’m a Cradle Catholic, and I tend to think I do a pretty good job. I was raised in a conservative Catholic family, so it was around me all of the time. My parents weren’t C+E Catholics like a lot of my friends who have fallen from the faith.

Any thoughts? It was interesting, because I had never given it any thought, and I don’t really know too many people who have gone through RCIA…

 

[Larowyn]

That sounds about right.

 

[jmcrae]

I was listening to the radio a bit ago, and the discussion was focused around the idea that RCIA Catholics tend to be “more Catholic” than Cradle Catholics.

I’m an RCIA Catholic, and I tend to think that these sorts of statements are intended to flatter our egos; I really don’t think it’s true at all. Most of what I know, I learned from devout “cradle” Catholics - the majority of other converts I know are relatively luke-warm in comparison.

They were using the phrase “more Catholic” to describe going to Church more frequently, following the Church’s teachings, knowing the content and applicable verses in the Bible, attending confession more regularly, etc.

There might be some of us who do these things “more than” some of you who are cradle Catholics, but we sure as heck didn’t learn it from each other; we learned it by watching you guys.

I’m a Cradle Catholic, and I tend to think I do a pretty good job. I was raised in a conservative Catholic family, so it was around me all of the time. My parents weren’t C+E Catholics like a lot of my friends who have fallen from the faith.

Any thoughts? It was interesting, because I had never given it any thought, and I don’t really know too many people who have gone through RCIA…

What I’m thinking right now is that you are one of the people who demonstrates with your life how to be a good Catholic, and provides a really good role model for those of us converts who want to take up the challenge to do the best we can as new Catholics.

Without you, believe me, there would be no us.

 

[Tinajo]

They were using the phrase “more Catholic” to describe going to Church more frequently, following the Church’s teachings, knowing the content and applicable verses in the Bible, attending confession more regularly, etc.

I’m a Cradle Catholic, and I tend to think I do a pretty good job. I was raised in a conservative Catholic family, so it was around me all of the time. My parents weren’t C+E Catholics like a lot of my friends who have fallen from the faith.

I don’t think the general observation that converts tend to be ‘more Catholic’ (by the above definition) than cradle Catholics is in any way intended to imply that cradle Catholics *cannot *be devout, just that more of them aren’t.

I think this is true - simply because a convert, by definition, has been instructed in all the doctrines of the Church and has explicitly stated that they believe. Any major problems with specific doctrines would normally be dealt with before reception into the Church.

On the other hand, many cradle Catholics (myself included!) were very badly catechised and knew very little about the details of the faith before investigating later in life (for example, I didn’t realise the importance of confession until the last year!) and so won’t necessarily do all the things a devout Catholic should.

A well-catechised, devout Catholic will of course fit in the ‘more Catholic’ part of the spectrum, but not all of us had that opportunity (I’m trying to get there though!).

That’s what made sense to me, anyway.

 

[thenewmrssears]

I have given it more thought, and I think I am going to go ahead and agree with the statements.

I went to Catholic school from pre-school until 12th grade. Out of my core group of 10 friends, 2 of us are still practicing Catholics beyond the the C+E “obligations.” The 8 that have fallen off use the argument that the Church was “pounded into them” by mandatory Church on Fridays + Church on Sundays when their parents felt like going.

They feel like they don’t “understand” the faith, which is weird because we were practically fed the Catechism starting in 6th grade.

I just thought it was a really interesting statement.

 

[whatevergirl]

I have heard it explained that RCIA Catholics have more zeal, because cradle Catholics, since growing up with the faith, have grown complacent. Not so much that cradle Catholic are not as devout, but they don’t have the same zeal for the faith as RCIA Catholics do. I can attest to being much more aware and at peace in my faith, when I became an adult and could reason, etc…I think that comparing a 14 yr old cradle Catholic who has just been confirmed, with a 25 or 30 or whatever yr old person who is in RCIA, would definitely show differences. Not in that a 14 yr old cradle Catholic isn’t excited about being confirmed, but rather they lack the reasoning that one develops as an adult. I have a whole newfound appreciation of my faith over the past 10 years, than I did even back in college days. So, I personally have noticed more zeal with reverts and converts, than I have with cradle Catholics…not necessarily that they are more devout.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[BlestOne]

There are some things Cradle Catholics can get involved in that are really good for overriding the poor catechisis in our youth…
Bible study
RCIA volunteer
get involved in prayer ministries…

 

[iona_scribe]

There might be some of us who do these things “more than” some of you who are cradle Catholics, but we sure as heck didn’t learn it from each other; we learned it by watching you guys.

I agree. In the course of my RCIA class I went from lukewarm acceptance of Catholic teaching to a wholehearted embrace of Catholicism. My fiancé and RCIA teachers helped me along, but seeing the vibrant faith of my cradle Catholic friends in my new church really inspired me. I wasn’t sure what to expect from cradle Catholics, and I was truly humbled by the wealth of faith they had to offer.

I bring certain strengths with me from my evangelical background into my Catholic practice (Bible study, apologetics, the desire to be involved in lay ministries), but it will take years for me to learn all of the “Catholic stuff” that comes so naturally to my friends.

 

[Gene_Church]

To some extent, I suspect this is true of all religious beliefs. Converts are more fervent, and desirous of following the faith. Those born into it frequently find themselves as cultural members of a faith, and will lose the real meaning behind that which is around them. Good religious education and understanding of one’s faith can help diminish this, however.

 

[Gene_Church]

Also, those cradle Catholics involved in RCIA are frequently fervent about their faith.

 

[Roza]

Or a cradle Catholic who missed it, slept through it, was in la la land or something… and eventually reverted back. Yes, I do want to keep growing and learning… I’m not an RCIA Catholic. Maybe some day. I sure did have a lot of beefs against Catholicism and I know they were all wrong.

 

[SMHW]

I think that cradle-Catholics and RCIA-Catholics can each be separated into two categories: Those who embraced the faith for themselves and those who were just going along with the crowd. (Of course there are also those who abandon the Faith altogether but they are not the topic of discussion here.)

We probably all know cradle-Catholics who really know and understand the Faith and we know those who are somewhat lukewarm. Some of that has to do with how devout the parents were and also what kind of Catholic education they received. And of course there are a host of other reasons too.

With few exceptions RCIA Catholics have had to stand up in front of the Church and affirm their new found or matured Faith. That usually implies some seriousness of belief. But there are other new Catholics who may have gone through the motions for other reasons, perhaps to make a spouse or potential spouse happy, and really aren’t all *that *sincere.

Cradle Catholics (or at least many of them) have the advantage of growing up immersed in Catholic practices and devotions. If they went to a good Catholic school they probably also learned a great deal about the Faith. (The same could be said for good CCD / Religious Ed / Faith Formation classes but there’s nothing like a full day’s worth of exposure to Catholicsm to reinforce what one has learned.)

RCIA Catholics are probably going to lack exposure to many devotions and might find them odd or superstitious. (And there is a real possibility that they saw such devotions practiced in a superstitious way.) One just has to sit with some of the mysteries of our Faith for a while before it is possible to except them.

 

[mercygate]

The big difference between cradle Catholics and converts is that we converts, as adults, have to stand up in front of a thousand people and say that we believe and profess all that the Catholic Church proposes as essential for salvation . . . So we tend to be very (very) careful and very knowledgeable about things the Homeboys either take for granted or never had to think about because they are just part of the matrix in which they have always lived.

I envy people who have drunk the water from birth. You are blessed.

 

[Roza]

I’m in the 3rd group, the ones that left & came back, a revert. There’s a lot from my youth I won’t try to understand. I grew up with stories about things and equated it all as Catholic. I did go to CCD and Confirmation but I think I was sleeping or day dreaming. So I left, I dabbled, I was delivered, was an anti for a time but started to see all my qualms against Catholicism were getting disproved one after another. So after that night of battling it out in my head and praying.I came back.

 

[Island_Oak]

I am a cradle Catholic along with my husband, but one of our biggest challenges is finding decent Catechism instruction for our children. Our parish (and I hesitate to say this because they rely on volunteers) does a TERRIBLE job in its RE program–lots of inconsistencies–largely due to the almost annual turnover of the Director of RE position. We are somewhat at a loss~I’ve volunteered in the past, but found it to be as big of a waste of my time as my kids. I know kids aren’t chomping at the bit to learn the ins and outs of their faith, but there has to be a way to make this more interesting and less tortuous!?

 

[Roza]

Confirmation was 1984 for me. During that year I was also going to an off campus fellowship and they definitely were NOT anti-Catholic but I was the only Catholic there I’m sure. I had a close friend who lent me books and I had a conversion, I felt I was really ‘getting it’ finally but then all $(** broke loose when I came home with a Protestant Bible, it was handed out in that fellowship. After that I felt all lost again my senior year of high school. When I left home I didn’t keep going to Mass. I had gotten sick right after leaving and life got in the way. I had my mind elsewhere. I was praying, never gave up on God but I sure did give up on religion. I do remember that from my AoG days, God wanting relationship & not religion. In other words true heart conversion as opposed to going through the motions.

I have 1 Catholic Bible book form in the house and on my computer I will have 2 installed, DRB and NAB. I use eSword software… book form I have the NIV, Living Bible, Amplified, KJV… I think that’s it. I listen better than I read. I have the MKJV on CD in MP3 format. I don’t have a Catholic audio Bible yet.

I remember reading that catechesis wasn’t so great in the 80s, whether or not that’s true I don’t know. I really don’t remember much of anything about CCD or Confirmation. I know I was more interested in NAM junk back then so I myself would NOT blame the instruction… at least in my case.

 

[Roza]

I forgot, online there’s also the New Jerusalem Bible. Maybe eSword will get that too… unless it already has it!

 

[juliasmith]

I am an RCIA catholic.
I believe that those who CHOOSE to be catholic may have a special zeal for their faith. Some cradle catholics choose to remain catholic after it is all said and done because they genuinely love Christ and the church. Many cradle catholics stay with their faith out of habit perhaps. I believe the same is true of any faith.
For many, it was something that was part of their childhood and once childhood was over, so was being catholic.
This discussion reminds me of the ‘parable of the soils’.

 

[udoc89]

I think somewhere about halfway through RCIA, I fell in love with the Church. Initially, I was a disenchanted Episcopalian, more interested in registering my discontent with that poor, beleaguered denomination than I was in applauding the rightness, logic, and ineffable majesty of Catholicism. That changed. I am still in love, although I confess I may not be quite as zealous at expressing that love as I was 11 years ago when my family and I were first confirmed.

Fortunately for me, the Catholics I was exposed to when I converted (and it was a conversion,) were every bit as dedicated to the Faith as I ever hope to be. They were cradle Catholics.

However, I am currently working with a cradle Catholic, who makes me want to cringe every time she opens her mouth on the subject of our shared Faith. I work with mostly non-denominational Protestants. One day a group of us were talking about the Bible. This woman said something like, “You can’t expect me to know anything about the Bible. I’m Catholic.” I piped in and said, “I know my Bible, and I’m Catholic.” Her reply was, “You don’t count. You’re a new Catholic.”

 

[jwashu]

I’m a swimmer here as well, this year in fact. I would say that it all depends on the Parish and the people.

I’m pretty gung ho as well are many others who went through RCIA. What some cradle Catholics don’t understand is that many Protestant “church shop” a great deal.

They attend a church because their kids like it or because they like minister or because it’s “fun.” This seems to be especially true in regards to these “Bible” Churches. Talking with my old Pastor and longtime friend about Theology one afternoon he showed little concern over my journey home (although he loves to grief me with things he knows aren’t true) however he was greatly concerned at the number of people who left after he retired and went to some of the “Bible” Churches. Time after time he said we would ask them… what do they Believe? the answer was always “well the kids have fun” or “I really like the music and multimedia!” stuff like that. None of them could tell him WHAT the Church actually taught… and most didn’t care. Worship was just singing some songs and listing to someone interpret the Bible for them and telling them what to do… I’m sure some Protestants would be upset by me saying this and I’m not talking to those people. There ARE many who care but I would say the majority are going for feeling.

Why? Because like many Catholics they weren’t properly taught why their Church, whichever one they grew up in, believes themselves to be correct.

Most of these people truly do love Christ on some level but they don’t really know how to show it. Thus when they finally begin to see the Truth of the Church they just can’t get enough. For many they have longed for “something” more in their service but they didn’t know what… for these people when they finally join, they are ready for the HLS Club!

So what about the Cradle Catholics, why aren’t they that way if the Church is teaching the Truth?!?

IMO there was a great gap in Catechesis during the late 60s, 70s and 80s… it’s getting better but we still aren’t there. There is like a lost generation of Catholics who don’t know what the Church teaches because many priest didn’t fully understand what Vatican II changed or didn’t change.

Think of Scott Hahn in one of his books talking about visiting a Priest for the first time and that Priest told him, “ah we are no different than Protestants anymore, why would you want to convert?”

I do believe we are getting better though.I know that my kids are being taught stuff in school that’s age appropriate and I can expand on it at home… which of course is the other major point.

You state that your parents were pretty good Catholics, I’m sure some of that included instruction at home. That set you apart from others who were relying on the School or PRE to teach their children everything. That is why so many of these former Catholics don’t know what the Church teaches… if they did they might still be Catholic.

I know a LOT of Catholics from where I grew up and here in my town now. About 40% are probably what I would consider devout, another 30% seem to do the minimum required by the Church and the other 30% are Catholic in name only… they only go to Mass when required by relatives or on special occasions like Christmas.

The 40% I know who are devout follow the teachings well, NFP, Confession often, observe their Obligations etc… most of them also have their kids in our Parish school which is a great blessing to us.

Reading national statistics I believe our Parish is a little higher on the devout side that others. I attribute this to a couple of things - being in the South where we are a minority, being in a relatively small town, having good Priests but most importantly having Perpetual Adoration in our old Chapel where many people will stop by even if for a bit to spend time in prayer with Christ. You just can’t beat that.

I’m sure it’s different in other places though… I feel very blessed to be where I’m at.

Joe