Cradle Catholics v. RCIA Catholics

[chewchoo]

Without you, believe me, there would be no us.

what a beautiful statement!!

 

[DL82]

As an RCIA Catholic, I don’t think I’m ‘more Catholic’ than anybody else.

I guess I go to confession more often because I still have a very long way to go. RCIA and the Church as a whole holds up a mirror to my upbringing and former values, and I realise how far away I drifted from God’s standards without even knowing. It takes a long time to undo all that damage. I guess cradle Catholics who are raised well have less distance to go with that.

As a former Protestant, I suppose I do know my Bible better than some cradle Catholics, but then I’ve also met Catholics who know their Bible better (and deeper) than any Protestant I ever met.

I suppose the idea of getting catechism classes as an adult gives you a more mature understanding than getting those classes age 12, but the understanding of a child is probably easier for them to accept. That’s why cradle Catholics might have less ‘head knowledge’ of their faith, but a deeper understanding of what it means in their lives. They grew up reconciling their own questions with the catechism, whereas RCIA Catholics have to bring the catechism to bear on their already fully formed adult lives. I guess the ideal would be to have both - good confirmation classes age 12, and good Catholic theology classes as a young adult.

That’s why I always feel like I don’t know how to be Catholic on the inside. Though I might know more, and do more external stuff, like going to mass and confession, blessing myself when eating, being able to quote the Bible or the Catechism, I still feel like all the ‘inside’ stuff, like really connecting with the mass or the rosary, knowing how to pray in thanksgiving after receiving communion, knowing how to think and feel like a Catholic, always take a kind of alien effort to me, while they seem much easier to cradle Catholics.

 

[Roza]

I forget the name of the song book, it has parts but the whole Mass walk through isn’t in it. I stayed after Mass once and kept looking for it, showed it to my Priest, again, I think that Church is closed now (pouts) and he look through it and said I was right, the walk through wasn’t in there. I know the old Missalettes used to have it. Not that I needed it 20+ years ago but until I’m back in sync I’d love it back!

That’s when I hunted online for the walkthrough & showed that to my priest and he said it was on target. I need to write in where the gestures go.

 

[DL82]

I forget the name of the song book, it has parts but the whole Mass walk through isn’t in it. I stayed after Mass once and kept looking for it, showed it to my Priest, again, I think that Church is closed now (pouts) and he look through it and said I was right, the walk through wasn’t in there. I know the old Missalettes used to have it. Not that I needed it 20+ years ago but until I’m back in sync I’d love it back!

A really good book for converts, that really gets ‘inside’ the mass, not the specifics (when to stand, kneel, cross yourself, etc.) but the ‘inside’ stuff, the stuff I know I struggle with as a convert, is ‘The Lamb’s Supper’ by Scott Hahn, himself a convert.

 

[Roza]

If someone could look at The Holy Mass and tell me where to write in the gestures. That would be a BIG help!!! Or I’ll have to ask the priest at the Church I’m going to now. I’m still a babe in the woods I think.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

A really good book for converts, that really gets ‘inside’ the mass, not the specifics (when to stand, kneel, cross yourself, etc.) but the ‘inside’ stuff, the stuff I know I struggle with as a convert, is ‘The Lamb’s Supper’ by Scott Hahn, himself a convert.

Ooo! Want.

 

[Inman]

This all just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

As part of the RCIA process, you have to make a decision whether you agree with the church’s teachings. If you don’t, you can’t truthfully stand up in the confirmation process and agree you believe everything the church teaches. Thus being, or rather becoming, catholic is linked with acceptance of the churches teachings. So our experience is you accept the church’s teachings and you are in, or you do not you are out. (ie you choose not to go through with it, quit RCIA on principal, ect.). Of course, some might convert even thought they disagree with the teachings, but the process is geared toward you making a choice to convert, or not.

The experience of cradle catholics is different. In theory at least, cradles catholics have the choice of whether to accept the sacrement of confirmation. However, in practice they do not always really have the choice. So assuming a cradle catholic is forced by her parents to accept confirmation. The message is sent that not only is ok to disagree with the church and remain catholic, you have no choice, but to do so.

In any event, suppose a young cradle catholic decides not to accept confirmation and the parents allow this. Does that person cease being catholic? No, they have already been initiated into the church via baptism and first communion. So they are in the grey area where they are part of the church, but fully accepting its teachings.

 

[Cinette]

I’m an RCIA Catholic and I haven’t been good at all. My wife (at the time) and I went to RCIA together and “graduated” joined the church…she got baptized…I already was…our son got baptized…we got our marriage blessed in the Church…we got confirmed…I joined the K of C…she joined the “lady Kof C” a thing the wives of our chapter did…our son was in CCD and loving it and getting to know people in the Church…things were great…

Then, after 10 years of marriage, she left me for her old high school sweetheart…she divorced me and moved my son in with her boyfriend in the neighboring state…I see him once every two weeks…that is the only time he goes to Church…

That was years ago…since then I remarried to a Lutheran woman at the Justice of the peace and we have had a son together…

I obviously am not allowed communion…We tired to get our new son baptized but the Church won’t do it unless we take a class…so I did it myself…

Anyway…I love the Church…but I’m the worst Catholic inthe world…so the cradle guys win…

FOR DD2007 - Hi!

C’mon be honest! Admit it! You are no Catholic convert! You are here in disguise just to test us and make us tear our hair out!

People do it all the time! They say things to provoke and infuriate and just drive people crazy:tsktsk: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

 

[jmcrae]

Why did they stop using them? Didn’t they run by month?

They’re still around - you buy them by subscription. There are several - “Living the Word,” “Magnificat,” “The Word Among Us” and many others.

 

[jmcrae]

If someone could look at The Holy Mass and tell me where to write in the gestures. That would be a BIG help!!! Or I’ll have to ask the priest at the Church I’m going to now. I’m still a babe in the woods I think.

It already has the standing, sitting, and kneeling indicated, at the start of each section.

The only other gestures are, the Sign of the Cross at the beginning and end of the Mass, and the triple signing of the forehead, lips, and heart at the beginning of the Gospel reading. (During or right after “Glory be to you O Lord.”) The priest also signs the Book of the Gospels; obviously, the people do not.

Optionally, you can also thump your chest at the words, “by my own fault” in the “I Confess.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

And how come we’re the only ones who bow during the Creed?

 

[jmcrae]

And how come we’re the only ones who bow during the Creed?

Only on certain days of the year - not all the time.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Some cradle Catholics just get too comfortable in a routine and lose sight of what’s important. RCIA Catholics are new to the whole experience so most of them tend to embrace Catholicism more deeply than a “comfy” cradle Catholic.
NOTE: I said “some” and “most” because obviously that doesn’t apply to EVERYBODY.

 

[RHC]

I’m a convert - we often had to give up something to become Catholic and often took a lot of flak from our families and friends - and some actually are cut off from their families and friends when they convert. We may place a different value on it because we often pay a real price to convert and we intend to make it worth the sacrifice.

Add to that that we learn the faith as adults at an adult level.

This is my story. My husband and I are Protestants, but we are currently going through RCIA. We intend to convert (Tiber Swim Team '09!), and we plan to baptize our children (ages 3 and 9 months) very soon.

This news has not been taken well by my family, the majority of whom are Protestant. My one supporter is my brother, who converted in 2004. We haven’t even told my in-laws yet; my mother-in-law grew up Catholic but left the Church to become non-denominational Protestant…she is very anti-Catholic and will not take the news well. By the way, any prayers for easing this transition would be appreciated…

I say all that to say - my husband and I are very serious about our faith, partially because of the opposition we have received.

 

[jmcrae]

I say all that to say - my husband and I are very serious about our faith, partially because of the opposition we have received.

Of course you are.

But don’t ever let anyone flatter you into thinking that you can learn more in six months to a year about the Catholic faith than someone knows who was born into a Catholic family and has been immersed in it for their entire lives.

You will certainly have fresh insights, and your enthusiasm will be a witness to others, but there will always - always - be lots to learn from those who got here first, and who have been “labouring in the vineyard,” so to speak, since “dawn,” or from birth.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

But don’t ever let anyone flatter you into thinking that you can learn more in six months to a year about the Catholic faith than someone knows who was born into a Catholic family and has been immersed in it for their entire lives.

**Not sure I agree. Hubby is a cradle Catholic. He attended daily Mass as a child, was an alter server etc. The Faith was a huge part of his life growing up. But he couldn’t answer more than 2 or 3 of my hundreds of questions when I was on my road to converting.

As a convert I wanted to know exactly what I was accepting and the whys behind what I would be required to do. He just did them because it’s how it always was. And he is not a Catholic-in-name-only by any means.

I think that many times the things we learn/do as children just become so familiar to us that we stop questioning. So in that regard I think converts can learn more in 6 months to year than someone who has been a lifelong practicing Catholic.

And my conversion journey really seemed to renew that desire for answers in him so now we learn together.**

 

[Roza]

I’ll have to look into where to buy the missalette then because I feel lost w/out it.

Optionally, you can also thump your chest at the words, “by my own fault” in the “I Confess.”

That’s what I mean, I want to write it into the walk through I printed out. Where exactly… the striking the chest (I’m wording it wrong because it sounds goofy) and where exactly the crossing on the forehead, lips & then the heart is done… what if anything we’re supposed to say during that. If I remember the 2nd one, wasn’t it something to the effect of 'bless what I think, what I speak and what I feel"(??) but I fear I’m still miswording something. I should remember this/know it… but I’m sure I was sleeping 20 yrs ago or at least had my mind elsewhere.

 

[SMHW]

Well all I can say as a 50 year old cradle Catholic is…

I think I know a great deal about Catholicism. More than many Catholics I know now. But I have not even begun to touch the fullness of knowledge that is possible to know about our Faith.

Whether one is a cradle Catholic, a revert or a convert, there is always something new to learn or discover about our Faith. My guess is that Pope Benedict would tell you that he too is continuing to grow in knowledge.

But head knowledge is only a piece of what it means to be Catholic. The advantage cradle Catholics (at least those who grew up in good homes with good education) usually have over RCIA Catholics is the formation that comes with LIVING a Catholic life.

As a cradle Catholic I am inspired and strengthened by those who have the courage and wisdom to join the Catholic Church. I have no idea what I would have done if I was in their shoes.

The fullness of Catholicism simply cannot be lived by one person. It’s sounds cliché but we do need each other as parts of the Body of Christ.

 

[Cinette]

Of course you are.

But don’t ever let anyone flatter you into thinking that you can learn more in six months to a year about the Catholic faith than someone knows who was born into a Catholic family and has been immersed in it for their entire lives.

You will certainly have fresh insights, and your enthusiasm will be a witness to others, but there will always - always - be lots to learn from those who got here first, and who have been “labouring in the vineyard,” so to speak, since “dawn,” or from birth.

You make very good points but you must also remember that the RCIA Catholics were immersed in their Christianity since birth and have a lot of offer also. I believe that they contribute much and that we complement each other. They serve as an itch to remind us of things we take for granted and maybe even forgotten.

Our Catholic Christian faith is like a well without end - there is always more. We can read a scripture for the 100th time and always discover more. Jesus and the Apostles has left us so much that even 2000 years has not covered everything. As we grow in the Faith we gain new insights and this is so important because as we think we have reached the “goalpost” it appears to move further away. We have within us an unquenchionable thirst and hunger which can and will never be satisfied in this world. So together we continue on our journey, supporting each other.

Look at the Catholic reverts who had left the Church and returned - they will tell you that had they been properly Catethised they would never have left. Parents have a difficult job these days with a very pernicious, powerful and influencial media. You can teach your children one thing but peer pressure is very powerful also. This is why we need good orthodox teachings in our schools.

This is just my thoughts right now. I know that I will be turning this subject in my mind throughout the day and will come up with other arguments. This is why these forums are so good for us - we get to learn what other people are thinking and we develop our thinking in the process.

Jesus understood our human nature and gave us all the resourses we need to keep on track. We have to keep supporting and lifting each other up. We are selfish beings but one thing we feel the need to share is our Faith.

 

[Cinette]

**Not sure I agree. Hubby is a cradle Catholic. He attended daily Mass as a child, was an alter server etc. The Faith was a huge part of his life growing up. But he couldn’t answer more than 2 or 3 of my hundreds of questions when I was on my road to converting.

As a convert I wanted to know exactly what I was accepting and the whys behind what I would be required to do. He just did them because it’s how it always was. And he is not a Catholic-in-name-only by any means.

I think that many times the things we learn/do as children just become so familiar to us that we stop questioning. So in that regard I think converts can learn more in 6 months to year than someone who has been a lifelong practicing Catholic.

And my conversion journey really seemed to renew that desire for answers in him so now we learn together.**

Excellent post. My thoughts exactly! I am a revert and I keep saying that Protestants are there to keep us on our toes. It is thru the questions they put that I went searching for answers. Protestants who convert are our treasure (I know I should like a broken gramaphone needle) :extrahappy: