Cradle CatholIcs vs. Converts

[LaSainte]

O.k., so I’ve noticed on this board that there seem to be sort of dueling factions here. Cradle Catholics and Converts. The Converts have the zeal of St. Paul, while the cradle Catholics tend to struggle more like St. Peter

I think it’s great that there are so many converts on fire for Catholicism and the Lord, but I feel like they can sometimes be a little judgmental of us cradles, so I’m just going tompaint a little picture of what it’s like for some of us growing up Catholic to give y’all more of an idea of where we are coming from.

We never got to choose to be Catholic. We were born, baptized, sent to Catholic school, and that was it. Unlike a convert, we never “found” Catholicism and studied every aspect and doctrine of the Faith, decided it all made perfect sense and then went through a lengthy and exciting conversion process where we came out the other end ready to die for even the smallest teaching of the Church.

Many of us grew up with parents who were having a sort of reaction AGAINST their Catholic parents. Their parents (our grandparents) were intense, judgmental people who never missed a mass on Sunday and who would dole out the corporal punishment like it was candy. The culture of the 60s and 70s was raising them while their parents worked 60 hours a week to raise these huge Catholc families.

When WE were born, our parents were much more relaxed. Sometimes church on Sundays, sometimes not. Sometimes just Easter and Christmas. Most of our knowledge of the faith probably came from Catholic grade school, which, even in the 80s, was a lot like the old jokes. We were told by the meanest teacher (some nuns, some laypeople) hat anything and everyhing could be a hell-worthy offense. We had teachers who locked us in closets, tied us to chairs, stuffed our mouths full of cotton and taped them shut, etc. All he while we were being told that WE were going to Hell for things like talking during silent lunch.

We had our first confession and communion at 7 when we were barely old enough to understand what was going on.

Then we went to Catholic high school where the madness continued. We had headmistresses who were nuns who basically called us stupid when we didn’t perform academically and called us sluts when we rolled our uniform skirts too high. We had priests who chain-smoked outside of class, drank too much on the weekends and threw us out of class at the drop of a hat. We also had the occasional well-liked priest whose hand would seemto linger for just a few seconds to long on your back when you were asking him a question about your test. There was the occasional one among them who was kind and funny and smart and beloved, but those were fairly rare.

We were still told we were going to Hell a lot, sometimes for things that the Church actually teaches. We told our parents and they laughed and made jokes about their own experiences at Catholic school (my dad had a nun who was so mean, they called her Sister St. Lucifer, and my mom had a nun drop a 5 pound book on her head for turning around in her seat and talking in the 4th grade). We had aunts and uncles who downright hated the Churh and slammed it every chance they got because of their own experiences.

We all learned to just laugh and roll our eyes when the subject of Hell came up and say “I guess I’m going to hell then”.

In college, we grew away from our faith, going to Church on Easter and Christmas.

Church teachings (he one’s we even knew about) were all optional. God knew your heart and that’s allthat mattered.

Fast forward a few years, we may be married or having kids and rediscovering our faith, making a real effort to learn and to catechize our children in a better way than we ever were, and suddenly we are blindsided by teachings we never knew about, lie he teaching on ABC or where men are supposed to ejaculate.

We come here to ask questions about these teachings with real, honest struggles and incomprehension of how something so “silly” could be a sin and we are attacked and told to just “submit” to he teaching. Easy for someone to say who CHOSE to be Catholic knowing all he rules ahead of time. Not so easy when you were raised “Catholic” like we were. We have decades of Catholic guilt and misunderstandings and yes, even hostility that we are trying to work through and we come here for advice and we get these holier-than-thou platitudes and derision.

I’m sorry, but unless you were raised Catholic, you can’t possibly understand the psychological number it can do on your psyche and your faith. There are times when we feel held hostage by Catholicism - leaving the Church would not only be a mortal sin (there’s that guilt) but it would wreak havoc on our identities. Many of us have a love-hate relationship with the Church. We grew up seeing a lot of the ugly side of hints and have very mixed feeling that we are trying to work hrouh, so hearing “just submit to the Church or be a Protestant” is beyond rude and totally uncalled for.

So please, cut us cradle Catholics a break and think about these things ampittle before you go shouting about “heresy” and “anathema” and telling us to just obey or leave, o.k.? You really have no idea what it’s like being raised this way

 

[Little_One0307]

LaSainte,

Wow. Let me guess this thread is started because of this one.

Sterilization followed by Confession.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8078776&posted=1#post8078776

Okay. I can say the same over here as I have said in the other thread as well.

It is not about cradle Catholics vs. Convert Catholics.

It is about whether one Follows All of Church Teaching or does not follow all of Church Teaching. That’s what it boils down to.

Do we follow the Magisterium of the Church or do we not follow the Magisterium of the Church.

And if we do or don’t can have a huge important play in where we will spend all of eternity.

Now I wish to go through your post, but had to post this to start off with.

God bless.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Believe it or not, there are many cradle Catholics who enjoyed being raised in the faith and are not ‘traumatised’ by it. You make it sound relly awful and I’m not exactly convinced by this story. I don’t even understand what the purpose of this thread is. Do you just need to vent?

 

[Little_One0307]

O.k., so I’ve noticed on this board that there seem to be sort of dueling factions here. Cradle Catholics and Converts. The Converts have the zeal of St. Paul, while the cradle Catholics tend to struggle more like St. Peter

Not true, all Catholics struggle, be they cradle or convert. But moving on.

I think it’s great that there are so many converts on fire for Catholicism and the Lord, but I feel like they can sometimes be a little judgmental of us cradles

So let me guess, if what the converts or any Catholic saying to catholics who choose to dissent from Church Teaching are contrary and make them feel uncomfotable, that’s being judgemental? Kinda sounds like Jesus vs. the Pharisees. He never toned down the truth and always expressed it.

so I’m just going tompaint a little picture of what it’s like for some of us growing up Catholic to give y’all more of an idea of where we are coming from.

You cannot lump all cradle Catholics in with cradle catholics who dissent from Church Teaching. I know many Cradle Catholics who are faithful to the Magisterium. This is a false premise, and therefore the rest of the post is also false. If an argument starts with a false premise, the rest of the argument is false. This is a basic law of logic, argumentation, and debate.

We never got to choose to be Catholic.

Actually you did when you were Confirmed.

Many of us grew up with parents who were having a sort of reaction AGAINST their Catholic parents. Their parents (our grandparents) were intense, judgmental people who never missed a mass on Sunday and who would dole out the corporal punishment like it was candy. The culture of the 60s and 70s was raising them while their parents worked 60 hours a week to raise these huge Catholc families.

What about the cradles who grew up with parents who exhibited this same behavoir and yet remained faithful to the Magisterium?

We were told by the meanest teacher (some nuns, some laypeople) hat anything and everyhing could be a hell-worthy offense. We had teachers who locked us in closets, tied us to chairs, stuffed our mouths full of cotton and taped them shut, etc. All he while we were being told that WE were going to Hell for things like talking during silent lunch.

Give me a break. Not all teachers, nuns and laypeople were like this in the 80s. Just another circumstance to uhhh justify why one does not want to follow the Church’s Teaching.

We had our first confession and communion at 7 when we were barely old enough to understand what was going on.

Funny but many other Catholics who were 7 and had their First Communion and were confirmed understood quite well what was going on.

Then we went to Catholic high school where the madness continued. We had headmistresses who were nuns who basically called us stupid when we didn’t perform academically and called us sluts when we rolled our uniform skirts too high. We had priests who chain-smoked outside of class, drank too much on the weekends and threw us out of class at the drop of a hat. We also had the occasional well-liked priest whose hand would seemto linger for just a few seconds to long on your back when you were asking him a question about your test. There was the occasional one among them who was kind and funny and smart and beloved, but those were fairly rare.

Again you cannot paint all nuns and priests and Catholic High schols with these vivid brushstrokes as you just have. It may have been true in particular places but it did not hold true universally.

We were still told we were going to Hell a lot, sometimes for things that the Church actually teaches. We told our parents and they laughed and made jokes about their own experiences at Catholic school (my dad had a nun who was so mean, they called her Sister St. Lucifer, and my mom had a nun drop a 5 pound book on her head for turning around in her seat and talking in the 4th grade). We had aunts and uncles who downright hated the Churh and slammed it every chance they got because of their own experiences.

ahhh now I am beginning to understand where you are getting justification with circumstances in not following Church teaching. Becuase you saw others who hated the Church becuase of their experiences. This still does not CHANGE nor ALTER the obligation we have to follow the Church’s teachings.

We all learned to just laugh and roll our eyes when the subject of Hell came up and say “I guess I’m going to hell then”.

If one dies unrepentant I really doubt they are laughing and rolling their eyes in Hell.

Church teachings (he one’s we even knew about) were all optional. God knew your heart and that’s allthat mattered.

NOWHERE and at NO TIME did the Church ever teach this. In fact the Church has always held that one Must follow the Teachings of the Church. I don’t know where you got this.

I have to post in another reply to finish this one. Thanks for you patience.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

LaSainte,

To continue with the post that I had started.

Fast forward a few years, we may be married or having kids and rediscovering our faith, making a real effort to learn and to catechize our children in a better way than we ever were, and suddenly we are blindsided by teachings we never knew about, lie he teaching on ABC or where men are supposed to ejaculate.

Again all this has been stated in the other thread. Sounds like you are still trying to frantically justify your position which is contrary to Church teaching. Did you really think that you would not be questioned in this thread as well?

We come here to ask questions about these teachings with real, honest struggles and incomprehension of how something so “silly” could be a sin and we are attacked and told to just “submit” to he teaching. Easy for someone to say who CHOSE to be Catholic knowing all he rules ahead of time. Not so easy when you were raised “Catholic” like we were. We have decades of Catholic guilt and misunderstandings and yes, even hostility that we are trying to work through and we come here for advice and we get these holier-than-thou platitudes and derision.

Again this has been addressed in the other thread as well. One is not asking about the teachings of the Church with real honesty, if they have already made it up in their mind they will not follow the Church’s Teaching because they find it “morally offensive” or “illogical.” You wern’t raised Catholic, I am sorry to say. Being raised Catholic is being raised to follow all the Church’s Teaching and actually following it.

No you do not come here for advice, you come here for like minded people who do not follow Church teaching as well and take comfort in that you are not alone in dissenting. I wonder if people who ended up in Hell for not following and rebelling against the Church’s Teaching are taking comfort in the fact that there are numbers of dissenters down there as well.

I’m sorry, but unless you were raised Catholic, you can’t possibly understand the psychological number it can do on your psyche and your faith.

Again you were not raised “Catholic”. You were raised in an enviornment where people questioned the Church and did not follow Church Teaching.

so hearing “just submit to the Church or be a Protestant” is beyond rude and totally uncalled for.

Actually it is not. If one disents with Church Teaching, they are not Catholic in the fullest sense. If one cannot submit to the Church, they should be praying for the grace to.

So please, cut us cradle Catholics a break and think about these things ampittle before you go shouting about “heresy” and “anathema” and telling us to just obey or leave, o.k.? You really have no idea what it’s like being raised this way

Again you cannot lump yourself in with all the other Cradle Catholics, especially those Cradle Catholics who are faithful to the Magisterium of the Church and follow it.

If you choose to dissent from Church Teaching and continue to live accordingly, then don’t be surprised when Catholics who follow the Church’s Teaching be they cradle or convert, challenge you on it. Again you cannot use circumstances to justify your obstinancy to hold to a practice contrary to Church Teaching. Circumstances DO NOT change whether an act is moral or evil.

---

So in conclusion, this is a false argument based on a false premise, using false universals.

God bless.

 

[Barb3]

I don’t know where LaSainte went to Catholic grammar school and Catholic high school – BUT I am a pretty OLD cradle Catholic and I NEVER experienced anything like what she supposedly went through. I know people talk about being “hit” by a Nun, but I honestly don’t remember anyone getting hit by a Nun in any of my classes.
What I do remember is that the Pastor came by and gave out our report cards – I don’t think he came every period BUT when he did he called your name and you went to the back of the classroom and then he READ out your grades and either congratulated you for doing well or gave you some advice on how you should do better --did anyone else have this experience???

 

[LaSainte]

Little One, I NEVER lumped myself in with ALL cradle Catholics!!! If you look at my opening statements, I distinctly said “SOME OF US”.

Also, when I said that Catholic teachings were optional and that God knew our hearts, I never said that was official Church teaching…I was illustrating the way in which many of us cradle Catholics tend to go through our college years.

Also, if you were a cradle Catholic, you might be aware of the abysmal catechesis SOME OF US received even before Confirmation.

This was before we had the Internet to do all sorts of research about it. We believed what we were taught and we were often taunt the bare minimum.

And I am not using this thread to justify anything. This is a thread asking the converts to lay off and give us a break because you have no idea what we struggle with in our hearts and minds.

And to the person who doubts my account of growing up Catholic: whatever helps you sleep at night dear. My story is FAR from the worst of them. I was actually kind to some of the priests at my school by not mentioning certain things.

Thanks to several of you for proving my point for me.

 

[LaSainte]

I don’t know where LaSainte went to Catholic grammar school and Catholic high school – BUT I am a pretty OLD cradle Catholic and I NEVER experienced anything like what she supposedly went through. I know people talk about being “hit” by a Nun, but I honestly don’t remember anyone getting hit by a Nun in any of my classes.
What I do remember is that the Pastor came by and gave out our report cards – I don’t think he came every period BUT when he did he called your name and you went to the back of the classroom and then he READ out your grades and either congratulated you for doing well or gave you some advice on how you should do better --did anyone else have this experience???

Our principal came and did the same thing, holding a sawed-off canoe oar to hit the people with who got bad grades. I never saw anybody get hit with it though

 

[Blacksword]

The OP’s description of growing up Catholic sure is horrifying! Hope my little daughter won’t turn out to hate me for bringing her into the Church!

 

[supertubos]

O.k., so I’ve noticed on this board that there seem to be sort of dueling factions here. Cradle Catholics and Converts. The Converts have the zeal of St. Paul, while the cradle Catholics tend to struggle more like St. Peter

I think it’s great that there are so many converts on fire for Catholicism and the Lord, but I feel like they can sometimes be a little judgmental of us cradles, so I’m just going tompaint a little picture of what it’s like for some of us growing up Catholic to give y’all more of an idea of where we are coming from.

We never got to choose to be Catholic. We were born, baptized, sent to Catholic school, and that was it. Unlike a convert, we never “found” Catholicism and studied every aspect and doctrine of the Faith, decided it all made perfect sense and then went through a lengthy and exciting conversion process where we came out the other end ready to die for even the smallest teaching of the Church.

Many of us grew up with parents who were having a sort of reaction AGAINST their Catholic parents. Their parents (our grandparents) were intense, judgmental people who never missed a mass on Sunday and who would dole out the corporal punishment like it was candy. The culture of the 60s and 70s was raising them while their parents worked 60 hours a week to raise these huge Catholc families.

When WE were born, our parents were much more relaxed. Sometimes church on Sundays, sometimes not. Sometimes just Easter and Christmas. Most of our knowledge of the faith probably came from Catholic grade school, which, even in the 80s, was a lot like the old jokes. We were told by the meanest teacher (some nuns, some laypeople) hat anything and everyhing could be a hell-worthy offense. We had teachers who locked us in closets, tied us to chairs, stuffed our mouths full of cotton and taped them shut, etc. All he while we were being told that WE were going to Hell for things like talking during silent lunch.

We had our first confession and communion at 7 when we were barely old enough to understand what was going on.

Then we went to Catholic high school where the madness continued. We had headmistresses who were nuns who basically called us stupid when we didn’t perform academically and called us sluts when we rolled our uniform skirts too high. We had priests who chain-smoked outside of class, drank too much on the weekends and threw us out of class at the drop of a hat. We also had the occasional well-liked priest whose hand would seemto linger for just a few seconds to long on your back when you were asking him a question about your test. There was the occasional one among them who was kind and funny and smart and beloved, but those were fairly rare.

We were still told we were going to Hell a lot, sometimes for things that the Church actually teaches. We told our parents and they laughed and made jokes about their own experiences at Catholic school (my dad had a nun who was so mean, they called her Sister St. Lucifer, and my mom had a nun drop a 5 pound book on her head for turning around in her seat and talking in the 4th grade). We had aunts and uncles who downright hated the Churh and slammed it every chance they got because of their own experiences.

We all learned to just laugh and roll our eyes when the subject of Hell came up and say “I guess I’m going to hell then”.

In college, we grew away from our faith, going to Church on Easter and Christmas.

Church teachings (he one’s we even knew about) were all optional. God knew your heart and that’s allthat mattered.

Fast forward a few years, we may be married or having kids and rediscovering our faith, making a real effort to learn and to catechize our children in a better way than we ever were, and suddenly we are blindsided by teachings we never knew about, lie he teaching on ABC or where men are supposed to ejaculate.

We come here to ask questions about these teachings with real, honest struggles and incomprehension of how something so “silly” could be a sin and we are attacked and told to just “submit” to he teaching. Easy for someone to say who CHOSE to be Catholic knowing all he rules ahead of time. Not so easy when you were raised “Catholic” like we were. We have decades of Catholic guilt and misunderstandings and yes, even hostility that we are trying to work through and we come here for advice and we get these holier-than-thou platitudes and derision.

I’m sorry, but unless you were raised Catholic, you can’t possibly understand the psychological number it can do on your psyche and your faith. There are times when we feel held hostage by Catholicism - leaving the Church would not only be a mortal sin (there’s that guilt) but it would wreak havoc on our identities. Many of us have a love-hate relationship with the Church. We grew up seeing a lot of the ugly side of hints and have very mixed feeling that we are trying to work hrouh, so hearing “just submit to the Church or be a Protestant” is beyond rude and totally uncalled for.

So please, cut us cradle Catholics a break and think about these things ampittle before you go shouting about “heresy” and “anathema” and telling us to just obey or leave, o.k.? You really have no idea what it’s like being raised this way

It made me laugh a lot your description, it fits mine in Portugal. worse still, I entered and left Seminary. So guess where in hell I should be, in bottom-bottom.

It was a pleasure to read this text, which made me aware, as I am new, that there is a group you call the Converts. Never noticed that. I was to say a joke but I am in trouble with moderation of the Forum and I do not know whether my Latin Jokes please the crow here so let’s wait for reflections then I will go on.

thanks for the absolutely neat scenario of the craddle christians. I will keep this thread in mind.

 

[Little_One0307]

Little One, I NEVER lumped myself in with ALL cradle Catholics!!! If you look at my opening statements, I distinctly said “SOME OF US”.

Also, when I said that Catholic teachings were optional and that God knew our hearts, I never said that was official Church teaching…I was illustrating the way in which many of us cradle Catholics tend to go through our college years.

Also, if you were a cradle Catholic, you might be aware of the abysmal catechesis SOME OF US received even before Confirmation.

This was before we had the Internet to do all sorts of research about it. We believed what we were taught and we were often taunt the bare minimum.

And I am not using this thread to justify anything. This is a thread asking the converts to lay off and give us a break because you have no idea what we struggle with in our hearts and minds.

And to the person who doubts my account of growing up Catholic: whatever helps you sleep at night dear. My story is FAR from the worst of them. I was actually kind to some of the priests at my school by not mentioning certain things.

Thanks to several of you for proving my point for me.

Hmmm,

Your concluding paragraph

So please, **cut us cradle Catholics a break **and think about these things ampittle before you go shouting about “heresy” and “anathema” and telling us to just obey or leave, o.k.? You really have no idea what it’s like being raised this way

You used several times in your post us cradles and things of that nature. And the opening statement does not make sense in relation to you using us cradles statements in the rest of your post.

I am aware that some Catholics had very bad formations, however this does not excuse them from following the Church’s Teaching.

Oh so the “converts” are supposed to lay off while statements are being stated contrary to Faith and Doctrine and morals. Is that what you mean by giving you a break.

I am sorry I am called to witness to the Truth as is every Faithful Catholic, and may God grant me the grace to do so. And the Truth is that which is Divinely revealed by God through the Church in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

God bless.

 

[Anna_Gregorach]

I was raised catholic and attended catholic schools like most and yes i do recall the bad.tempered nuns who taught me, but that never made my life as a catholic miserable, on the contrary im thankful for it. With all due respect, and as valid as your argument mite be, you make cradle catholicism sound like some kind of horror story.

In spite of your family and your bad experiences in catholic schools, tell me, have you ever meditated in the Church teachings, what they stand for, what they try to protect and uphold or are just trying to be rebellious?. Putting your parents and aunts and uncles and all of their sad memories aside, i believe you are old enuff to discern the real purpose of the teachings of the Church. I suggest you go and spend some time in front of the Eucharist, pray, ask for enlightment and it shall come to you, ask for your heart and soul to be healed from your past experiences. If you have got any questions or doubts concerning the teachings of the Church, you can always go and ask any priest and surely he´ll b happy to explain things out for you. God truly knows what´s in your heart, thats very well said – and true --, but that is not an excuse to ease your conscience either.

Being a cradle catholic is a true blessing, even if it life experience has been as difficult as yours. Cheers

Godbless

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I wonder if we have a troll here. The subject of this thread is a bit strange and it sounds like the OP wants to cause an argument.

 

[Redratfish]

LaSainte,

To continue with the post that I had started.

Again all this has been stated in the other thread. Sounds like you are still trying to frantically justify your position which is contrary to Church teaching. Did you really think that you would not be questioned in this thread as well?

Again this has been addressed in the other thread as well. One is not asking about the teachings of the Church with real honesty, if they have already made it up in their mind they will not follow the Church’s Teaching because they find it “morally offensive” or “illogical.” You wern’t raised Catholic, I am sorry to say. Being raised Catholic is being raised to follow all the Church’s Teaching and actually following it.

No you do not come here for advice, you come here for like minded people who do not follow Church teaching as well and take comfort in that you are not alone in dissenting. I wonder if people who ended up in Hell for not following and rebelling against the Church’s Teaching are taking comfort in the fact that there are numbers of dissenters down there as well.

Again you were not raised “Catholic”. You were raised in an enviornment where people questioned the Church and did not follow Church Teaching.

Actually it is not. If one disents with Church Teaching, they are not Catholic in the fullest sense. If one cannot submit to the Church, they should be praying for the grace to.

Again you cannot lump yourself in with all the other Cradle Catholics, especially those Cradle Catholics who are faithful to the Magisterium of the Church and follow it.

If you choose to dissent from Church Teaching and continue to live accordingly, then don’t be surprised when Catholics who follow the Church’s Teaching be they cradle or convert, challenge you on it. Again you cannot use circumstances to justify your obstinancy to hold to a practice contrary to Church Teaching. Circumstances DO NOT change whether an act is moral or evil.

---

So in conclusion, this is a false argument based on a false premise, using false universals.

God bless.

Thank you for saving my time to write basically the same thing

 

[Redratfish]

Little One, I NEVER lumped myself in with ALL cradle Catholics!!! If you look at my opening statements, I distinctly said “SOME OF US”.

True, you did, but then follow by inclusive words like, we, and at the start makes there sound likes there is a conflict between two factions. Not 1 and a half.

Also, when I said that Catholic teachings were optional and that God knew our hearts, I never said that was official Church teaching…I was illustrating the way in which many of us cradle Catholics tend to go through our college years.

True, many are like this. Doesn’t mean its right

Also, if you were a cradle Catholic, you might be aware of the abysmal catechesis SOME OF US received even before Confirmation.

**As a teenager I can back up that catechism teaching is horrible, if even existant. But once I learn the truth of a matter, then I cannot say “oh well I heard this first”. I used to masturbate like all teens. It was never mentioned at school. I was told by friends and online it was how most people acted and was natural. Once I learned the official teaching I am trying to stop (pray for me). **

This was before we had the Internet to do all sorts of research about it. We believed what we were taught and we were often taunt the bare minimum.

True, but once you learn something, you cannot deny it just because you were raised Catholic

And I am not using this thread to justify anything. This is a thread asking the converts to lay off and give us SOME I believe you meant? a break because you have no idea what we struggle with in our hearts and minds.

True, we cannot judge you, cause we do not know your story. However, telling you the truth of the Catholic Church’s teaching is not judging you. It is simply (if forcefully) warning you you are in danger.

And to the person who doubts my account of growing up Catholic: whatever helps you sleep at night dear. My story is FAR from the worst of them. I was actually kind to some of the priests at my school by not mentioning certain things.

I had a friend who had a priest abuse him. He still follows the Catholic faith to the letter. Horrible upbringing does not excuse willful dissent

Thanks to several of you for proving my point for me.
That people are trying to help you avoid sin?

 

[Corki]

O.k., so I’ve noticed on this board that there seem to be sort of dueling factions here. Cradle Catholics and Converts. The Converts have the zeal of St. Paul, while the cradle Catholics tend to struggle more like St. Peter

Yes, there sometimes does seem to be a bit of a duel.

I think it’s great that there are so many converts on fire for Catholicism and the Lord, but I feel like they can sometimes be a little judgmental of us cradles, so I’m just going tompaint a little picture of what it’s like for some of us growing up Catholic to give y’all more of an idea of where we are coming from.

As a cradle Catholic myself, I just want to add to the perspective.

We never got to choose to be Catholic. We were born, baptized, sent to Catholic school, and that was it.

Yep! Only when I had my own kids did I fully understand and appreciate what my parents did and the sacrifces they made.

Unlike a convert, we never “found” Catholicism and studied every aspect and doctrine of the Faith, decided it all made perfect sense and then went through a lengthy and exciting conversion process where we came out the other end ready to die for even the smallest teaching of the Church.

Actually, those Catholic schools I went to did a pretty good job of teaching doctrine and trying to help us make sense of it. But you are right, there wasn’t an exciting conversion process. This really hit me in college when my Protestant friends would ask me, “When did you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?” The answer was simply that He always was. That sounded flat but was also comforting.

Many of us grew up with parents who were having a sort of reaction AGAINST their Catholic parents.

My parents did not (overtly) seem to be having that reaction.

Their parents (our grandparents) were intense, judgmental people who never missed a mass on Sunday and who would dole out the corporal punishment like it was candy.

Never missed Mass on Sunday - check.
Believed in corporal punishment - check (often threatened but rarely applied)

The culture of the 60s and 70s was raising them while their parents worked 60 hours a week to raise these huge Catholc families.

The generation you see as grandparents was the generation of my parents. In the 60s and 70s my parents were building their families. We had a medium sized family (five kids) but there were many large Catholic families (10, 12, even 14 kids). None of the parents were working 60 hour weeks. In fact the idea of working on the weekend would have sent many of those parents into shock even though it is fairly normal today.

When WE were born, our parents were much more relaxed. Sometimes church on Sundays, sometimes not. Sometimes just Easter and Christmas.

No, my parents never missed Mass on Sundays. It was my generation that got a little more lax. But most of them came back to at least **most **Sundays when they had kids of their own.

Most of our knowledge of the faith probably came from Catholic grade school, which, even in the 80s, was a lot like the old jokes. We were told by the meanest teacher (some nuns, some laypeople) hat anything and everyhing could be a hell-worthy offense. We had teachers who locked us in closets, tied us to chairs, stuffed our mouths full of cotton and taped them shut, etc. All he while we were being told that WE were going to Hell for things like talking during silent lunch.

My Catholic school years were the late 60s/early 70s. I never even **heard **of any teachers or nuns like that. I did have one teacher in the 2nd grade who still would whack a misbehaving student with a ruler once in a while. We knew about Hell, sure, and how to get there - or to stay out. By the 80s most of the Catholic schools had gone the complete other way and taught a very 'flexible" version of Catholic teaching. “Hell exists but its probably empty” “All God wants if for you to love him, the rest is optional” etc.

We had our first confession and communion at 7 when we were barely old enough to understand what was going on.

My Grandmother was the First Communion teacher so I got in a year early. I was 6 and was very serious about what I was doing.

 

[Corki]

Part II

Then we went to Catholic high school where the madness continued. We had headmistresses who were nuns who basically called us stupid when we didn’t perform academically and called us sluts when we rolled our uniform skirts too high. We had priests who chain-smoked outside of class, drank too much on the weekends and threw us out of class at the drop of a hat. We also had the occasional well-liked priest whose hand would seemto linger for just a few seconds to long on your back when you were asking him a question about your test. There was the occasional one among them who was kind and funny and smart and beloved, but those were fairly rare.

I was able to convince my parents to send me to public high school. My best friends were at the Catholic high school. The madness continued, as you say, but it was the “girls gone wild” variety. High academic standards but really loose conduct ones. I visited often whenever the calendars didn’t match) and never heard a peep about Hell at the Catholic school.

And yes, we had one of those creepy, too-familiar priests but he was at the parish, not at the school.

We were still told we were going to Hell a lot, sometimes for things that the Church actually teaches. We told our parents and they laughed and made jokes about their own experiences at Catholic school (my dad had a nun who was so mean, they called her Sister St. Lucifer, and my mom had a nun drop a 5 pound book on her head for turning around in her seat and talking in the 4th grade). We had aunts and uncles who downright hated the Churh and slammed it every chance they got because of their own experiences.

I had one aunt that hated the Church. She wasn’t Catholic and never had been. Strangely, when she died, she and her husband were looking into converting. The rest of my aunts, uncles and cousins were all pretty linked into the Church. My mother and her sisters went to the same schools - Catholic grade schools, high schools and college. The never had anything but praise. They had lots of nuns who remained their friends after college.

We all learned to just laugh and roll our eyes when the subject of Hell came up and say “I guess I’m going to hell then”.

I first heard that from my high school music teacher.

In college, we grew away from our faith, going to Church on Easter and Christmas.

In college I was a lector and EMHC, tapped into the Newman center but also experiementing with other churches. I was part of a group that went to a different church together every Sunday (Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopal, CofC, etc.)

Church teachings (he one’s we even knew about) were all optional. God knew your heart and that’s allthat mattered.

Yeah, I heard a lot of that in the 80s.

Fast forward a few years, we may be married or having kids and rediscovering our faith, making a real effort to learn and to catechize our children in a better way than we ever were, and suddenly we are blindsided by teachings we never knew about, lie he teaching on ABC or where men are supposed to ejaculate.

Yes, after we had kids my husband and I decided we had to get serious. We thought it would be hypocritical to send our kids to CCE and Catholic school if we didn’t practice and learn.

The new Catechism came out about that time. I found the Catholicity website, then Catholic Online, and finally CAF. Lots of eye popping moments. Lots of misinformation to dig through. Our pre-cana priest had told us ABC was “between you and God”. That was a hard one to work through. Thank God for the internet and the ability to read so many documents from the Church herself.

 

[Corki]

Part III (sorry)

We come here to ask questions about these teachings with real, honest struggles and incomprehension of how something so “silly” could be a sin and we are attacked and told to just “submit” to he teaching.

I came here with lots of questions too, starting back in 2004. I never saw anyone seriously told to just “submit” though I see a lot of people who are a little rigid. There are some people who are able to accept even before they understand a teaching. Some are not.

Easy for someone to say who CHOSE to be Catholic knowing all he rules ahead of time. Not so easy when you were raised “Catholic” like we were.

Actually, it was MUCH easier as someone who was raised Catholic. As I studied and read, there was lots of resonance with things from my childhood.

We have decades of Catholic guilt and misunderstandings and yes, even hostility that we are trying to work through and we come here for advice and we get these holier-than-thou platitudes and derision.

Yeah, there are those types - here and everywhere. But there is also a tendency by some who are not as “gung-ho” to dismiss what they don’t want to hear as 'holier than thou" or as fundamentaist.

I’m sorry, but unless you were raised Catholic, you can’t possibly understand the psychological number it can do on your psyche and your faith.

I was raised Catholic and yes it had a huge psycholical impact on me.

There are times when we feel held hostage by Catholicism - leaving the Church would not only be a mortal sin (there’s that guilt) but it would wreak havoc on our identities. Many of us have a love-hate relationship with the Church. We grew up seeing a lot of the ugly side of hints and have very mixed feeling that we are trying to work hrouh, so hearing “just submit to the Church or be a Protestant” is beyond rude and totally uncalled for.

I can’t say I have ever felt like I was held hostage. Hopefully the “love” side of the love-hate relationship will win out. No one really wants a Catholic to leave and become Protestant. But it would be nice if those who don’t believe what the Church teaches wouldn’t try so hard to convince everyone that they are right and the Church is wrong.

So please, cut us cradle Catholics a break and think about these things ampittle before you go shouting about “heresy” and “anathema” and telling us to just obey or leave, o.k.? You really have no idea what it’s like being raised this way

I have no idea what it was like to be raised the way you describe. True. But you really have no idea what the typical cradle Catholic upbringing was either. I have known thousands of Catholics in several states (and two other counties) and none have experiences like what you described.

Did anyone really shout “anathema” at you? The Church doesn’t even use that term anymore.

 

[karow]

Thank you, OP, for having the courage to tell your story. Many of us who also grew up Catholic can see glimmers of our childhoods in yours.

While I myself never experienced corporal punishment in school, my 71-year-old mother has scars on the back of her left hand that were put there by the nuns’ rulers, nuns who attempted to ‘cure’ her left-handedness by beating that hand every time they caught her writing with it. Suffice it to say that she has less than fond memories of her Catholic education.

 

[silicasandra]

I see the divide LaSainte is talking about. It’s odd, because I am a convert, but married to a cradle. I usually find myself somewhere in the middle of all of these arguments (reading - I don’t feel brave enough to jump in! I’ve got a soft ego and someone may bruise it)

I like that I am learning so much on CAF but there is definitely a LOT of uncharitable behavior. I guess even though most of us are Catholics, it’s still the Internet