Cradle CatholIcs vs. Converts

[PatriceA]

Also, the fact is that many Catholic schools were just not very good educational institutions. I don’t know how it is now, but back then, the teachers at Catholic schools were so underpaid that almost none of them even had degrees. The schools would take almost any “Catholic” willing to work for pennies on the dollar. How many of us had a the school P.E. teacher or football coach suddenly show up in Math or History class and just start teaching because the previous teacher up and quit?

I’m actually hoping the schools have gotten better because I would like to send my kids to Catholic school, but our public schools where I live are exemplary as far as academics go, so it’s a tough choice.

Honestly, the experience you are describing is pretty close to what we recently experienced with our daughter’s former Catholic school. We pulled her out about a year ago and she’s learned more in her CCD classes at a new parish than she did in the last two years at the Catholic school.

 

[Stylites]

My own catechism on Saturday mornings was in the presence of joy-filled nuns, smiling in their starchy habits. The neighbors went to Catholic school, and got to stay home on Saturdays to watch cartoons. Speak about trauma!

 

[Little_One0307]

Little one, I started out with hrs premIse that I was only referring to “SOME OF US” and then shortened that to “we”. I hope you understand.

LaSainte,

It’s not a problem of understanding. You should have used some cradle Cathlics throughtout the whole post. You do not start off and contradict yourself in your post when you are trying to logcially present an argument. The argument falls becuase of the contradiction. It’s just not good logic. And I see Redratfish also commented on what I have commented about your use of “Some cradles” and “we cradles.” It just does not add up.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

At what point did I EVER say we were helpless dimwits? I think we all assumed that we were getting the correct information and we trusted priests and nuns and CCD and our schools to provide us with that information. I don’t think that makes anyone helplessnor dimwitted. We didn’t HAVE the Internet back then and had no reason to believe that our catechesis was lacking in any way. It wasn’t until I was much older that I saw a dichotomy between what I had been taught and what the Church itself actually states.

LaSainte,

There you go again saying we again, lumping everyone in together with that word “we”. Though it is true that you all did not have the internet back then, that I won’t debate. That was true for everyone.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

The grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you.

I would like to bring to the attention of everyone following this thread, that in my opinion, a false dichotomy has been set up in the very title of this thread between two friendly groups that are actually one…namely, baptized Catholics who are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Not to be in full communion with the Bishop of Rome means not fully accepting all of the Magisterial teaching of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church over which he presides with the authority of Christ Jesus Himself.

All Catholics, regardless of when they were baptized, are called to acknowledge the successor of Peter, the Holy Father, currently Pope Benedict XVI, as their leader in the faith.

Catholics baptized as infants and Catholics baptized after the use of reason are equally called to profess the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic faith.

I believe a real dichotomy exists between finite creatures, created out of nothing, who fully accept and embrace the Magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church vs those finite creatures, created out of nothing, who do not fully accept and embrace the Magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church. (“Magister” in latin means “teacher”).

God bless you,
Quis ut Deus 3

Thanks for sharing this. It really gets the focus where it needs to be instead of on trigger words such as converts and cradles. It really get to the crux of the situation.

God bless.

 

[Lui]

To the OP: I can relate from the other side.
My dad is from South America, a very Catholic place where most people I met are faithful Catholics but he grew up to be a left-wing, Sartre reading, existentialist who hates all religions. His view is that people only believe in God because they were brain-washed(cradle Catholics) all their life. To be fair, he has high moral standards, hates racism, hates hypocrisy and is generally a good person so I was raised with high morals. He didn’t want me or my siblings to be baptized though.

My mother is German and went to an all girl Catholic school with those mean nuns you mentioned. That is one of the main reasons she turned away from Catholicism once she was an adult. My brother, sister and I were all baptized but that was the last time we had anything to do with the Catholic faith or religion. Growing up in a Jewish area of New York I knew more about Judaism from friends than Catholicism.
I would never have guessed that I would ever end up turning religious. I wasn’t one of those atheists who went through several spiritual phases like New Age stuff, trying out a bit here and there on the search of the right thing until I ended up at Catholicism. I always thought it is all nonsense. I though we are born, live, die and that’s it. Forget about Heaven, Hell, Karma, Reincarnation etc.

There were some things that were odd though. I seemed to always have things work out for me against all odds. I felt like there was something like fate and there is someone who is watching over you. These things very slowly led me to start believing there is a God but it was a slow process.
I don’t know what is easier: being a cradle Catholic or a Convert(although, is a person a convert who was baptized as a kid?). As somebody who doesn’t know all the “rules” yet it can be overwhelming at times. Certain things are hard to swallow as a former atheist. For example some cradle Catholics might easily believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old and humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time because they were raised with this belief. As a former atheist you think “you gotta be kidding me!”

At the end of the day it all boils down to who is really sincere about faith and who is not. I think it doesn’t matter if you’re a cradle Catholic or a Convert.

I wonder if we have a troll here. The subject of this thread is a bit strange and it sounds like the OP wants to cause an argument.

I didn’t get this impression at all.

 

[LaSainte]

LaSainte,

There you go again saying we again, lumping everyone in together with that word “we”. Though it is true that you all did not have the internet back then, that I won’t debate. That was true for everyone.

God bless.

Don’t be obtuse. For the purposes of this thread, I think it is obvious that when I say “we” I am referring to cradle Catholics who had similar experiences to my own, of which there are many. I emphasized that in my first post, then again when you expressed your concern that I was lumping all cradle Catholics together, and now I am reiterating that for a third and final time. I will assume any further confusion on your part to be some sort of personal learning disability and not reflective of the intelligence level of he rest of the group here.

 

[LaSainte]

To the OP: I can relate from the other side.
My dad is from South America, a very Catholic place where most people I met are faithful Catholics but he grew up to be a left-wing, Sartre reading, existentialist who hates all religions. His view is that people only believe in God because they were brain-washed(cradle Catholics) all their life. To be fair, he has high moral standards, hates racism, hates hypocrisy and is generally a good person so I was raised with high morals. He didn’t want me or my siblings to be baptized though.

My mother is German and went to an all girl Catholic school with those mean nuns you mentioned. That is one of the main reasons she turned away from Catholicism once she was an adult. My brother, sister and I were all baptized but that was the last time we had anything to do with the Catholic faith or religion. Growing up in a Jewish area of New York I knew more about Judaism from friends than Catholicism.
I would never have guessed that I would ever end up turning religious. I wasn’t one of those atheists who went through several spiritual phases like New Age stuff, trying out a bit here and there on the search of the right thing until I ended up at Catholicism. I always thought it is all nonsense. I though we are born, live, die and that’s it. Forget about Heaven, Hell, Karma, Reincarnation etc.

There were some things that were odd though. I seemed to always have things work out for me against all odds. I felt like there was something like fate and there is someone who is watching over you. These things very slowly led me to start believing there is a God but it was a slow process.
I don’t know what is easier: being a cradle Catholic or a Convert(although, is a person a convert who was baptized as a kid?). As somebody who doesn’t know all the “rules” yet it can be overwhelming at times. Certain things are hard to swallow as a former atheist. For example some cradle Catholics might easily believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old and humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time because they were raised with this belief. As a former atheist you think “you gotta be kidding me!”

At the end of the day it all boils down to who is really sincere about faith and who is not. I think it doesn’t matter if you’re a cradle Catholic or a Convert.

I didn’t get this impression at all.

Thanks for your story! I’m German Catholic as well. Those German women are pretty serious about their Catholicism How cool that you found your way back to the Chirch in such a way!

 

[LaSainte]

LaSainte,

It’s not a problem of understanding. You should have used some cradle Cathlics throughtout the whole post. You do not start off and contradict yourself in your post when you are trying to logcially present an argument. The argument falls becuase of the contradiction. It’s just not good logic. And I see Redratfish also commented on what I have commented about your use of “Some cradles” and “we cradles.” It just does not add up.

God bless.

Actually, I said “some of us” and then switched to the pronoun “we”. I also said “many of us” twice as well, all in my first post. I think my verbiage was pretty clear. I’m sorry if you have a problem understanding the language.

 

[supertubos]

Corki I loved reading your reply and I really thank you for it! It’s always interesting to hear how someone’s upbringing has affected their point of view and it’s good to know that you had a mostly positive experience.

I actually really liked being raised Catholic and the rest of the stuff pretty much rolled off my back and was something to laugh at as I got older. Like why is here always one creepy priest???

Anyway I never wanted this thread to come off as a diatribe against he Church, because I know that the Church is NOT what I fully experienced growing up (although I did get some wonderful glimmers of it). I love the Church and will never leave. I just was hoping to shed some light on the dynamics that go on with some people to maybe help some of he converts see where and why some of us struggle with certain aspects of Church teaching.

Yours is a very good and very important one. Many times, too many times, people think that, as the Priest, Bishop or Pope is Christ on Earth, then He is Christ on Earth. Period.

Let’s kick out the Period. When we read the Gospels, we see the figure of Christ towers on meter above the disciples. He is the Master, the Lord, the Savior, God. Th apostles are just mere robbots half-dizzy about whatever was happening to them, at a Loss without Christ.

At the Acts of Apostles, Christ disappeared, then it is the Apostles who are the Heroes, And they kept being so until now.

But too soon we forget who is the Giant, the Hero, The Saint, The One who makes the Pope be what He is. Priests are men like any one of us, with the same problems, envy, greed, sex, pride, alcoholism… simple, they were given a Gift that is very heavy to carry. But let’s not forget that each of us, xriatians are priests, called to the same heights and we carry a heavy burden and a precious cargo. We do not say mass or confess but we are priests as weel, with the same weaknesses and the same greatness,

 

[911mom]

La Sainte thanks so much for your post! I must say this is an issue our family of converts is struggling with…My hubby and I converted when our children were small daughter 3 son 2…We have been faithful to the church for 10 years but our children, now teens are dying on the vine…CCD is horrible and our church has very poor programs for kids until they reach high school…we have actually encourgaged them to attend a protestant youth group so they can be around “on fire” Christians and understand what it means to love Jesus and walk the walk…Maybe that’s a poor decision but we don’t know what else to do…We love the church and don’t want to leave but how do you change a whole culture to be more expressive and “on fire” instead of a parish full of people that only feel compelled to punch their Sunday Mass ticket and be done until next week?

 

[SamanthaT]

I am a convert (almost) but I can definitely see where you are coming from. My grandfather would tell me some stories about how horrible it was to be in his Catholic school in New York City. They were quite free with the corporal punishment and damnation to hell.

I think that there are definitely some people on here that can be VERY judgmental. Every time I read a post that is judgmental or hyper critical (the one where they take apart EVERY word and phrase you type), I want to type in big bold letters:

**1 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged.

2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.
3 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye?**
usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew7.htm

But I guess if I did do that, then I would be just as bad…
Im sorry that people are being so critical of you

 

[911mom]

To add to my post a few moments ago…Yes we are involved parents…I teach CCD and try to keep it interesting but my children are not always in my class…we have done family rosaries and Bible Studies however my work schedule makes this infrequent and difficult but we do have conversations about spiritual topics and the Mass…what my children and I are longing for is fellowship which has been difficult to cultivate at our parish…my teens need to be around Godly, faithful peers that want to learn more about their faith and grow. We have thought about talking to our Pastor to start a LifeTeen group at the parish and while I would like to pursue that option it doesn’t provide immediate help for our current situation. Any friendly ideas from folks who’ve dealt with this issue would be appreciated! We absolutely love the church and her teachings and would never leave. We would like to know how to approach a Catholic community with some new hopefully spiritually life giving ideas. Thanks!