Craft and implement a new form of the Mass while suppressing the current OF and EF Mass canons

[Duesenberg]

I thought the following posting from “Spyridon” (with his permission) might prove to be a platform for some interesting debate:

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I know this will upset some, but I would really like to see Pope Francis promulgate a new Franciscan Mass.

Bring back the prayers before the altar.

Mandate that the Mass be celebrated ad orientem or liturgical East.

Mandate that in most circumstances, the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei are said in Latin.

Bring back the Tridentine Form of the Confiteor and mandate that the Confiteor and Kyrie are the penitential Rite to be used in all Masses.

Mandate reception of Communion on the tongue, and limit the number of EMHC’s and make the occasions for their usage less numerous.

Severely restrict the usage of any musical instruments besides the Pipe organ, and strongly encourage the use of polyphony and Gregorian chant when able.

Mandate that on most Sundays and Solemnities the Roman Canon is the appropriate Eucharistic prayer to be utilized.

Make it an option for Bishops to determine whether they want Communion received in a line or at an altar rail in their Dioceses.

Make it optional to read the Prologue to John after the Concluding Rites (though this is technically already an option, encourage the practice).

Take this new Fransican Mass and promulgate it, and strictly forbid any older form of Roman Rite Mass from being used - totally suppress both the Tridentine and Pauline Masses in favor of the Franciscan Mass.

This is a pipe dream, but I would be 100% on board with such a thing.

It would act as a good compromise between the EF and OF, and it would hopefully help quell the division which we see now cropping up more and more.

 

[misstherese]

I don’t understand the insensitive responses here. We are not debating one person. This is a forum for Catholic discussion.

As I said on the original post, I think it is a wonderful idea. I personally think it reflects more closely what the Vatican II council wanted from the start. I would however, mandate the use of altar rails and male altar servers. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Spyridon]

One more thing I would advocate:

Creation of a new Franciscan Liturgical Year: use all the names and seasons of the EF (pre Lent, quadrigesima, weeks aftet Pentecost, etc) but implement the new updated and expanded Lectionary into this more traditional liturgical calendar.

 

[Entwhistler]

Concerning the Last Gospel. I wonder why it was taken out from the OF? Although technically, I don’t think Vatican II said anything about it. It’s such a shame that it’s gone. Even in English, that passage is beautiful.

 

[phil19034]

I agree. I would like to see the ban on percussion and piano to return. And ban guitar too.

I find all 3 to be distracting

 

[Maximilian75]

To play devil’s advocate, we already have a traditional form of the Roman Rite- the EF.

 

[Spyridon]

involving people who have no academic background in liturgy and who have speculations about what was that d

The people of God do not need advanced degrees in Liturgy to have a casual discussion on an internet forum about things they would like to see implemented into the Church’s Liturgy.

We’re not advocating creating some schismatic sect and making the changes ourselves, we’re just thinking out loud of ways that the Liturgy could potentially better reflect what the Council Fathers may have had in mind in Sacrosanctum Concilium.

If you noticed my original suggestions, absolutely nothing of the OF would be lost - the OF would simply implement certain elements of the Rubrics and prayers of the EF.

A lot of the suggestions I had can already be used in the OF we already have - the Gloria, Agnus Dei, and Sanctus in Latin, Communion only on the tongue, less usage of EMHC’s, Gregorian Chant, use of the Roman Canon on Sundays and Solemnities, celebration ad Orientem, proclamation of the prologue of John during the Concluding Rites.

Most of these changes could be implemented without even having to promulgate a new Missal. A simple motu proprio directing these changes to be implemented into the current Pauline Mass would suffice.

The only changes I suggested which would require a promulgation of a new Missal would be bringing back prayers before the Altar, going back to the old text of the Confiteor, and implementing a reformed Liturgical Calendar.

But none of those are necessary at all, the changes which could be made with a simple motu proprio would have a huge impact.

Also, a lot of these “changes” would simply be correcting things which should have never been to begin with. Communion on the tongue is supposed to be the norm. Latin is supposed to be used at least some in the Liturgy. The Roman Canon is supposed to be used on Sundays.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Polyphony, pipe organs … Venerable they may be, but perhaps a better label for such a mandated Mass would be Eurocentric.

 

[RedDuke]

I think those are some good ideas, but I wouldn’t go to the Franciscan Mass and I would certainly not like to see the TLM suppressed. There are too many things that I really like about the TLM that wouldn’t be in the Franciscan Mass.

 

[jfz178]

You don’t have to tell me. I was a server in the Latin Mass and had to take Latin in Catholic high school. I am glad we left it behind. I do admit when I attended Mass in the Vatican the Italian was close enough that I got a rush of nostalgia, but it passed pretty quickly.

 

[Spyridon]

am glad we left it behind. I do

I am glad we left behind the entire Mass in Latin too.

I am not glad Latin has been excised entirely from most Roman Rite Masses, I feel it’s not a good thing to not at least have a few of the prayers in Latin.

 

[jfz178]

I wish I hadn’t. All the advanced placement kids had to take Latin. The lower placement kids got to take typing. Later, computers came in. Guess who pulled in the lead in the world? I had to teach myself to type in my mid-30’s. Latin would have been easier.

 

[jfz178]

I’d prefer Aramaic, like some of the Eastern Rites use. I’d like to hear it as close to the way Jesus said it. Call me liberal if you want, but I am all about Jesus. I am here for Him. All the rest, well…

 

[AlNg]

we already have a traditional form of the Roman Rite- the EF.

Yes, and I would not be in favor of forbidding it.

—the following is a quote from Spyridon—

…strictly forbid any older form of Roman Rite Mass from being used - totally suppress both the Tridentine and Pauline Masses…

No. But it would be OK with me if the authorities wanted to add another rite to the EF and OF as Spyridon suggests.

 

[on_the_hill]

Why would we want to make going to church on Sunday harder than it is now? Restrictions on music, on how the Eucharist is received, having to learn songs in Latin. . . . Will only drive people away.

This whole notion that we need to make church challenging in order to engage people is backwards.

 

[Kei]

I wish there were a universal language used in our Catholic Church’s Mass so that you wouldn’t need the bilingual mass or the separate mass times for the Vietnamese speakers.

But we can’t always get what we want.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Things worth having are worth working for. I’m a convert. If I wanted an easy path where I ever had to read, think, understand, or challenge my world view I’d go to a Protestant or non denominational church.

 

[Kei]

But sadly almost all the novus ordo masses are just about completely in vernacular with rather limited exceptions.
The council fathers I think imagined a Mass with the same traditional Latin being used.

 

[Duesenberg]

So… I am being asked to debate what one person wants Mass to be celebrated like? No thank you.

In all sincerity, why in the world would you post something like that? Why post anything at all if you don’t want to take part in a discussion?

I thought the following posting from “Spyridon” (with his permission) might prove to be a platform for some interesting debate

 

[Duesenberg]

Thank you for your comments. That’s precisely the sort of insight I was hoping for. Please keep in mind that “Spyridon” and not I wrote those comments…