Crazy person in church; what to do?

[InspiritCarol]

First of all, please pray for our little mission. We are under significant strain.

The latest problem is a crazy woman who wanders our little town “promoting” the Catholic church by telling all who will listen about how Mary and the Holy Spirit talk to her.

For a while, I thought she was mostly harmless, but she thinks she can do whatever she wants because “the Holy Spirit” talks to her.

She has driven many people away. She sent me nasty critical emails and made multiple phonecalls per day because the Holy Spirit told her I needed to do more with the music ministry.

Our priest barely speaks english and is not communicating well with the *functioning *members of our parish let alone those unable to grasp reality.

It truly is a nightmare. I quit doing the music and liturgy because of this woman’s abuse. I moved to children’s liturgy so now she is intruding on that by getting “certified” to work with children in multiple states and approaching the mothers in our church with crazy talk.

She says things like God told her she is his prophet; Mary told her to get rid of her cell phone. She prays openly and out loud for old women in the parish to bear children.

She acts “charismatic” but is, in fact, an open mockery to all it stands for. She reminds me of the woman in Acts whom Paul had to rebuke for exclaiming Jesus’ name.

Who can I turn to for help?

Again, if nothing else, prayers are MOST appreciated.

Blessings,
Carol

 

[Joannm]

Just because a person gets “certified” to work with children doesn’t mean that one has to let her. If she is truly that intrusive perhaps someone needs to find out if she has family members in town and to contact them with regard to her behavior. No one has the right to harass anyone. Maybe social services can be called. She may be a someone who needs medical attention. It is too bad that your priest is unable to approach her but I would keep her from doing ministry in the parish at the very least.

We all have people in our parishes who seem a bit odd, who feel Jesus is speaking to them (who knows maybe He is), but we must also protect our parishioners from abuse. We had a man who was off he meds for a serious mental condition. He thought he was cured and was very disruptive at different parish events and would corner people and tell them what God was saying to him. Many people were afraid of him. A resident priest in our parish put him in touch with another priest who was a spiritual director and the man started harassing him. Then the spiritual director told him in no uncertain terms that he must go back on his meds or stay away from the people of the parish. We never saw him again. By the way the man wasn’t even Catholic. We think that he went back to his group home where we later found he had been released but then stopped his meds.

 

[jimrob]

Your Parish Priest is responsible for anything that is done in the Church’s name within the Parish boundaries. It is his responsibility to act although you can give him a clear choice - if he wants to keep his congregation, he must act.

Someone needs to assess whether she is a prophetess or a lunatic. Jesus was dismissed by many as crazy, as were many prophets mentioned in the Bible. It sounds to me as though the woman is mentally ill, but I can’t do a diagnosis from thousands of miles away. If she is making a nuisance of herself in public, or could be a danger to herself, I am sure your town has agencies to deal with her. We certainly have in the UK.

The Christian Life has many obstacles to surmount. In the West we are reasonably free of physical persecution, but there are plenty of people inside and outside of the church who persecute us mentally.

 

[Jesus_123]

+My first thought is that you need to take control of this adverse situation as much as possible and completely . . . restrict the access . . . this individual has to your personal life by calling your phone company and changing your phone # to an unlisted # to protect your and your household’s peace of mind. Phone companies are very familiar with harrassing calls and the need to stop them by changing phone numbers. Then take great care to only give out the number to those who really need to have it and can be trusted to keep it as a private number . . . such as your children’s schools and teachers . . . family doctors . . . your husband’s employment . . . trustworthy friends . . . your bank . . . and your priest for his personal use only (emphasizing it is not to be given out or published) . . . etc. . . . it is a bit of a hassle getting this changed and set up but it is very much worth it . . . also change your e-mail address to cut off that line of access . . . for church matters use the church’s e-mail address . . . or do without . . . whoever downloads the church’s e-mail mailbox can give you any messages that come through . . . and becomes a second witness to any harassment that occurs . . . **so that it can be dealt with as a church matter **. . . and the situation can be curtailed and hopefully Father will not allow it to escalate . . .

Secondly, if you haven’t personally talked with the priest about how serious this problem is . . . you need to share this with him so that he is aware he needs to carefully protect the children’s ministry and the children’s parents in the parish from intrusion and harrassment by this individual in whatever way he is able . . . and so that he can afford protection to you and your family from any interference by this individual in your personal life . . . I cannot fathom what reputable organization could possibly have certified someone to work with children in several states . . . this is very odd . . . but within the church . . . we have complete control as a church as to who works or volunteers to work with our kids . . . and who is not allowed this privilege . . . your priest needs to be alerted and made fully aware of this strange individual so that . . . **he doesn’t accept or encourage her ** . . . in any way to work as a volunteer worker among the children . . .

Lastly . . . such an individual as you have described can be very unpredictable as to behavior . . . probably the wisest course of action is for you not to respond to this individual in any way . . . except perhaps . . . *if the need arises *. . . to tell her not to call, e-mail or contact you in any way . . .

As a very last resort there are . . . legal restraining orders . . . that can be obtained to keep this individual away from you if the harrassment continues or escalates . . . also . . . EWTN has a security department . . . perhaps they could give counsel in regard to this kind of problem . . .

*May God bless and protect you and your family . . . and may God abundantly bless your dear priest and your struggling little mission church . . . *

+****

PRAYER TO****
**SAINT MICHAEL
THE ARCHANGEL **

**St. Michael the Archangel, **
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness
and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him,
we humbly pray,
and do
**thou, O Prince of the heavenly hosts, **
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
+

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Lord our Saviour+
. . . Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . please pray for a cure of this troubling situation+
. . . thank you Blessed St. Michael our Protector+
. . . Prince of the Heavenly Host+​

 

[TheMc]

First of all, please pray for our little mission. We are under significant strain.

The latest problem is a crazy woman who wanders our little town “promoting” the Catholic church by telling all who will listen about how Mary and the Holy Spirit talk to her.

For a while, I thought she was mostly harmless, but she thinks she can do whatever she wants because “the Holy Spirit” talks to her.

She has driven many people away. She sent me nasty critical emails and made multiple phonecalls per day because the Holy Spirit told her I needed to do more with the music ministry.

Our priest barely speaks english and is not communicating well with the *functioning *members of our parish let alone those unable to grasp reality.

It truly is a nightmare. I quit doing the music and liturgy because of this woman’s abuse. I moved to children’s liturgy so now she is intruding on that by getting “certified” to work with children in multiple states and approaching the mothers in our church with crazy talk.

She says things like God told her she is his prophet; Mary told her to get rid of her cell phone. She prays openly and out loud for old women in the parish to bear children.

She acts “charismatic” but is, in fact, an open mockery to all it stands for. She reminds me of the woman in Acts whom Paul had to rebuke for exclaiming Jesus’ name.

Who can I turn to for help?

Again, if nothing else, prayers are MOST appreciated.

Blessings,
Carol

Sounds like a typical charismatic to me…

Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

 

[paperwight66]

+My first thought is that you need to take control of this adverse situation as much as possible and completely . . . restrict the access . . . this individual has to your personal life by calling your phone company and changing your phone # to an unlisted # to protect your and your household’s peace of mind. Phone companies are very familiar with harrassing calls and the need to stop them by changing phone numbers. Then take great care to only give out the number to those who really need to have it and can be trusted to keep it as a private number . . . such as your children’s schools and teachers . . . family doctors . . . your husband’s employment . . . trustworthy friends . . . your bank . . . and your priest for his personal use only (emphasizing it is not to be given out or published) . . . etc. . . . it is a bit of a hassle getting this changed and set up but it is very much worth it . . . also change your e-mail address to cut off that line of access . . . for church matters use the church’s e-mail address . . . or do without . . . whoever downloads the church’s e-mail mailbox can give you any messages that come through . . . and becomes a second witness to any harassment that occurs . . . **so that it can be dealt with as a church matter **. . . and the situation can be curtailed and hopefully Father will not allow it to escalate . . .

Secondly, if you haven’t personally talked with the priest about how serious this problem is . . . you need to share this with him so that he is aware he needs to carefully protect the children’s ministry and the children’s parents in the parish from intrusion and harrassment by this individual in whatever way he is able . . . and so that he can afford protection to you and your family from any interference by this individual in your personal life . . . I cannot fathom what reputable organization could possibly have certified someone to work with children in several states . . . this is very odd . . . but within the church . . . we have complete control as a church as to who works or volunteers to work with our kids . . . and who is not allowed this privilege . . . your priest needs to be alerted and made fully aware of this strange individual so that . . . **he doesn’t accept or encourage her ** . . . in any way to work as a volunteer worker among the children . . .

Lastly . . . such an individual as you have described can be very unpredictable as to behavior . . . probably the wisest course of action is for you not to respond to this individual in any way . . . except perhaps . . . *if the need arises *. . . to tell her not to call, e-mail or contact you in any way . . .

As a very last resort there are . . . legal restraining orders . . . that can be obtained to keep this individual away from you if the harrassment continues or escalates . . . also . . . EWTN has a security department . . . perhaps they could give counsel in regard to this kind of problem . . .

*May God bless and protect you and your family . . . and may God abundantly bless your dear priest and your struggling little mission church . . . *

+****

PRAYER TO****
**SAINT MICHAEL
THE ARCHANGEL **

**St. Michael the Archangel, **
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness
and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him,
we humbly pray,
and do
**thou, O Prince of the heavenly hosts, **
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
+

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Lord our Saviour+
. . . Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . please pray for a cure of this troubling situation+
. . . thank you Blessed St. Michael our Protector+
. . . Prince of the Heavenly Host+​

Thank you for cutting down on your preferred use of many colours, Jesus_123. It has made this post a lot easier to read.

 

[InspiritCarol]

Sorry I wasn’t more clear: this woman has said she takes meds. She has become the town pariah by just wandering the streets rain or shine and “witnessing” to people about how they need to be Catholics like her. It’s the worst kind of disaster for a church that is already looked at with suspicion.

She can not call herself a “prophet” and be Catholic:
III. CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25
God has said everything in his Word
65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27
There will be no further Revelation
66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
IN BRIEF
68 By love, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. He has thus provided the definitive, superabundant answer to the questions that man asks himself about the meaning and purpose of his life.
69 God has revealed himself to man by gradually communicating his own mystery in deeds and in words.
70 Beyond the witness to himself that God gives in created things, he manifested himself to our first parents, spoke to them and, after the fall, promised them salvation (cf. Gen 3:15) and offered them his covenant.
71 God made an everlasting covenant with Noah and with all living beings (cf. Gen 9:16). It will remain in force as long as the world lasts.
72 God chose Abraham and made a covenant with him and his descendants. By the covenant God formed his people and revealed his law to them through Moses. Through the prophets, he prepared them to accept the salvation destined for all humanity.
73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him.
Several of us are meeting with the Priest this afternoon to discuss this.
Really, I’ve put up with lots of kookie people - likely been called that myself more than once But I’ve never had to handle someone truly psychotic.
For example; last night after communion, my husband had to take my screaming 20month old outside (past her bedtime) and this woman followed him outside to “give the child a special blessing”. It was sooo creapy.

 

[InspiritCarol]

…
Lastly . . . such an individual as you have described can be very unpredictable as to behavior . . . probably the wisest course of action is for you not to respond to this individual in any way . . . except perhaps . . . *if the need arises *. . . to tell her not to call, e-mail or contact you in any way . . .

I did this and things escalated. She got a key to the church and started arriving before me and would just lurk in the pews while I tried to prepare things for Mass. I tried going even earlier; she’d show up even earlier.

We (myself and others from the council) approached Father about this as the woman had claimed she obtained the key from Father. He denied giving her the key but refused to talk to her as he claimed it was a waste of time since this woman is so much in her own reality.

As a very last resort there are . . . legal restraining orders . . . that can be obtained to keep this individual away from you if the harrassment continues or escalates . . .

I’m about there. I certainly have the evidence. Emails where she says things like “I’ll never stop bothering you”. The thing is this is all only because I have had a fairly sucessful ministry. In my mind she is not attacking me, but the church at large in the guise of “helping us”.

EWTN has a security department . . . perhaps they could give counsel in regard to this kind of problem . . .

Thank you, I’ll look into this.

Extra thanks for that.

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him,
we humbly pray, and do **thou, O Prince of the heavenly hosts, **
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan, and all the evil spirits, who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
+
. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Lord our Saviour+
. . . Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . please pray for a cure of this troubling situation+
. . . thank you Blessed St. Michael our Protector+
. . . Prince of the Heavenly Host+

Amen.

 

[Joannm]

Most diocese have an office for Protection of Children and they all certainly have legal and risk management departments. I would give the diocese a call. If the pastor won’t handle it perhaps the diocese can send someone to assist the pastor with a job he certainly finds distasteful and beyond his capabilities. There could be a lawsuit waiting to happen and then the pastor could be in big trouble in that he ignored this woman.

 

[Jesus_123]

+Our **Wonderful Lord **blessed me with the privilege and opportunity to work as a church secretary for twenty plus some years while my children were growing up . . . and one of the church members of the very large church where I was working . . . **who also had a key to the church ** . . . became very threatening and disruptive to the point where we staff members became very uneasy about coming into the church alone . . . or working in the church alone . . . *which was even a greater problem for me since I opened up the church and the administrative offices each weekday morning *. . . and it is a sadness . . . but this kind of problem is not an unusual one . . .

The Senior Pastor simply had all the exterior locks and any interior locks which could be accessed by that key . . . changed . . . *and he gently but firmly refused to give the offending individual another key *. . . we logged in every new key that was given out . . . and monitored them and requested their timely return as people rotated in and out of church work that required the need for a key . . . and no one was allowed to make a copy . . . the offending member was not a happy camper . . . but the harrassment which had invaded the church building through this individual was stopped in its tracks . . . and the safety of all of us . . . including the children in our day school and their teachers and the principle who interacted with me daily in the church office . . . was secured . . . the changing of the locks was a . . . **non-confrontational quiet way ** . . . of diffusing the unhealthy situation . . . **and an absolute necessity **. . . and the expense for such is relatively minimal . . .

There are often very practical ways of diffusing potentially dangerous, volatile or harassment situations whereby we can minimize risks to all involved . . . we just need to take back control as much as possible and handle these situations . . . I have noticed uniformed guards at times in the vestibule of the televised EWTN Chapel Mass . . . one of the churches over the years that I worked in when we moved was a beautiful inner city church with a gorgeous tree shaded campus . . . they had had to install burglar alarms throughout the church which were directly linked to the police station . . . which I had to deal with coming in and exiting the church . . . morning, noon and night . . . and all the doors had to be kept locked at all times . . . in our inner city Cathedral here in this city . . . when we have evening meetings at the Cathedral there is always a guard stationed at the only opened entrance/exit door . . . who inquires of each person what their specific purpose is for entering the church before they are allowed to enter . . .

*Life just isn’t easy or simple . . . and at times it can be downright dangerous . . . praise God for all his holy merciful and loving help and protection . . . *

*God bless . . . *

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank you Blessed Holy Archangel St. Michael+
​

 

[TrueLight]

Thank you for cutting down on your preferred use of many colours, Jesus_123. It has made this post a lot easier to read.

Yes! Thanks so much.

 

[puzzleannie]

name.

Who can I turn to for help?

Again, if nothing else, prayers are MOST appreciated.

Blessings,
Carol

since she seems to have an active role in parish ministry, with the priest’s permission, this is a clear abuse and must, repeat must, be reported to the bishop. today.

you must take steps yourself if the priest does not do it to restrict her access to children and youth. If she steps over the bounds of civil law in your area, also report her to the civil authorities.

note this is not simply a case of an eccentric parishioner, this is someone who is participating in the parish ministries and apostolates in an abusive way.

 

[InspiritCarol]

since she seems to have an active role in parish ministry, with the priest’s permission, this is a clear abuse and must, repeat must, be reported to the bishop. today.

you must take steps yourself if the priest does not do it to restrict her access to children and youth. If she steps over the bounds of civil law in your area, also report her to the civil authorities.

note this is not simply a case of an eccentric parishioner, this is someone who is participating in the parish ministries and apostolates in an abusive way.

As always your clarity of mind is much appreciated.

I brought this back to my pastor (in my own words) and the parish council members today. I have agreed to give the pastor another chance to make her back off. We all want to be charitable since she is clearly so sick; but as another example she reached in the window of someone sitting in the parkinglot and grabbed the cigarette he was smoking out of his mouth stating that it was “unhealthy”.

I’m pretty sure this can be called assualt in some states.



The pastor very wisely pointed out that it is not enough to tell her “not” to do a thing. We must find something she can direct her energy towards.

I don’t think there is anything she will not harm. She’s really that sick.

I suppose it can’t hurt to give it another few days, but I’m afraid that after that time I will need to contact a lawyer and the Bishop.

 

[Jesus_123]

Litany
of the
Divine Mercy

***. . . prayer for Thy Holy Resolution in this difficult circumstance Dear Lord . . . ***

The Love of God Is The Flower - Mercy The Fruit.
…
Divine Mercy,
which flowed out from the **open wound **of the
Heart

of
Jesus
**I trust in You. **
…
**Divine Mercy **. . . lifting us out of every misery . . . **I trust in You. **
**Divine Mercy **. . . source of our happiness and joy . . . I trust in You.
**Divine Mercy **. . . in calling us forth from nothingness to existence . . . **I trust in You. **
**Divine Mercy . . . embracing all the works of His hands . . . I trust in You. ****
Divine Mercy ** . . . crown of all of God’s handiwork . . . **I trust in You. **
**Divine Mercy ** . . . in which we are all immersed . . . I trust in You. **
Divine Mercy **. . . sweet relief for anguished hearts . . . **I trust in You. **
**Divine Mercy **. . . only hope of despairing souls . . . **I trust in You. ****
Divine Mercy **. . . repose of hearts, peace amidst fear . . . **I trust in You. ****
Divine Mercy ** . . . delight and ecstasy of holy souls . . . **I trust in You. ****
Divine Mercy **. . . inspiring hope against all hope . . . **I trust in You. **
**Eternal God, **
in whom
**mercy **

is endless
and the treasury of compassion inexhaustible,
look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us,
that in difficult moments
we might not despair nor become despondent,
but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will,
which is
**Love **and **Mercy **
itself.
+
O incomprehensible and limitless
**Mercy Divine, **

To extol and adore You worthily,
who can?
Supreme attribute of Almighty God,
You are the sweet hope for sinful man.
+

- from St. Faustina’s Diary

**Link: ** ewtn.com/Devotionals/Litanies/divine_mercy.htm

. . . all for Jesus​

+
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!​

 

[TempleofTheSoul]

InspiritCarol… please read very carefully what I am about to say. What you have written clearly shows that this woman is not properly taking her meds. If she was she would not behave the way she does.

Her behavior is not only a danger to herself but also to others. And I say this with the authority that I myself am a Schizophrenic but with medication it is controlled praised be the Lord! This woman clearly cannot differentiate between what her psychosis tells her from reality and that is a very dangerous situation to allow to continue in your mission church.

I would have the locks changed in the church… report this to the Bishop and also to the civil authorities. If your pastor thinks he needs a few days more to sort things out then he is not in his right mind himself. That he could even think of allowing her to be near children just shows how careless he is being.

I would get the Bishop involved as well as the civil authorities such as the police. Tell them how she has been harassing you and what you have witnessed her doing and they should take her in for a psychiatric evaluation. Please call the police today and file a report.

Do not… I repeat do not continue to let this drag on as you will only be feeding this woman’s psychosis and that could lead to a tragedy.

God bless

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

There’s a big difference between a seer and a crazy person who’s off their meds and is having delusions of a religious nature, and she’s clearly the latter. Real seers tend to be a bit embarrassed by their revelations and usually reveal them only to a trusted confessor/priest who knows them well, etc. This woman certainly isn’t doing that.

I’m with everyone who’s said to report this to the bishop and warn him that she’s a potential threat. She shouldn’t be working with kids: not all child abusers are male, and women are just as capable of doing terrible things to a kid. And I really doubt she’s going to get certified to work with kids: I have a feeling she’s going to be certified as just one thing, as a total mental case.

 

[Servus_Rosarium]

Perhaps the Holy Ghost would like you to start a schola for Gregorian chant ?

 

[garysibio]

A while back one of the priests decided that it would be a good idea if, at the weekday Masses, they allowed the congregation to include their own intentions. Now our church is located in the same neighborhood as several facilities that house people whose presence on this planet is more physical than mental, if you know what I mean. The congregational intentions ended when one of the attendees began requesting prayers for Spiderman every day.

We’ve also had people bring basketballs to chat with when they get bored.

As long as they aren’t disruptive, they are left alone. When they get nasty, we call the police.

 

[Castello]

Change the locks to all the buildings. No one has a key except staff. If a non-staffer needs a key, they sign it out at the office and sign it back in when they are finished with whatever.

 

[asia53]

Change the locks to all the buildings. No one has a key except staff. If a non-staffer needs a key, they sign it out at the office and sign it back in when they are finished with whatever.

That’s what we do at my parish. Keys are very closely watched, very few people have their own key, except Father, and parish office staff. Changing locks is expensive–how about re-keying the locks?