Create a Fair Immigration Policy

[pnewton]

1. Approaches which reward illegals – such as amnesty – do nothing to solve the problem.

Since you are going to go and get all reasonable on us, I will agree with pretty much what you said. I do, however, think it is possible to have amnesty without rewarding those here illegally. All amnesty needs to apply to would be punishment.

For example, if we let all those needing work to enter for that puropse as long as they register and we can keep up with who they are for the purpose of national security, then amnesty would extend on to those who would comply with this process and not benefit would be derived other than not being arrested and deported. Amnesty must not lead to a fast track to citizenship.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Since you are going to go and get all reasonable on us, I will agree with pretty much what you said. I do, however, think it is possible to have amnesty without rewarding those here illegally. All amnesty needs to apply to would be punishment.

For example, if we let all those needing work to enter for that puropse as long as they register and we can keep up with who they are for the purpose of national security, then amnesty would extend on to those who would comply with this process and not benefit would be derived other than not being arrested and deported. Amnesty must not lead to a fast track to citizenship.

Let us consider Jose and Miguel. Jose slipped across the border illegally, and has been working under the table in this country for five years. Miguel has played by the rules, applied for a quota and has been waiting for five years.

Under amnesty, which one gets to stay in the US legally, and which one is still waiting?

 

[pnewton]

Under amnesty, which one gets to stay in the US legally, and which one is still waiting?

You are correct, if we maintain a quota system. I would prefer that both be allowed to work legally, and that we not have such quotas.

My greatest concern is national security. It is important to track those here for less than honorable reasons. I have no problem with those who just want work. I believe it is a good trade-off removing all excuses to registration, thus allowing those who still wish to be anonymous to stand out.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You are correct, if we maintain a quota system. I would prefer that both be allowed to work legally, and that we not have such quotas.

My greatest concern is national security. It is important to track those here for less than honorable reasons. I have no problem with those who just want work. I believe it is a good trade-off removing all excuses to registration, thus allowing those who still wish to be anonymous to stand out.

What about those who don’t want to work? Welfare in California is much more lucerative than in Sonora or Jalisco.

 

[lsusportsfan]

Under amnesty, which one gets to stay in the US legally, and which one is still waiting?

My understanding is that under the plain the President proposed and onr that could have been compromised on we were talking 12 to 15 years before any of these folks could become citizens.

I think that is a tad too long , but still if we cant get people in here that are doing this legally in 12 to 15 years that has nothing to do with the Illegal question but ineptness

 

[lsusportsfan]

By the way. Is there anyone on the ground here involved in trying to get a policy formulated.

When is legislation going to be intorduced in the House and Senate to get the ball rolling this year. Who are Democrats that are going to be the leaders in this and when is this happening. It is time to get the ball rolling while there is a “supposed” friendly Congress and a Frienfly President in the White House that all work together.

We need to get this issue put to bed before the heat of the 08 comes in

 

[pnewton]

What about those who don’t want to work? Welfare in California is much more lucerative than in Sonora or Jalisco.

Is California still part of the U.S.? The fact that welfare and non-emergency social services apply to non-citizens is a whole other issue, whether immigrants are legal or not. I am not a big fan of feeding people who decline to work anyway.

No, guest worker programs should apply only to workers (and their family).

 

[vern_humphrey]

Is California still part of the U.S.? The fact that welfare and non-emergency social services apply to non-citizens is a whole other issue, whether immigrants are legal or not. I am not a big fan of feeding people who decline to work anyway.

No, guest worker programs should apply only to workers (and their family).

Unfortunately, we must deal with the world as it is, not with the world as we would wish it to be.

Right now, illegals do get welfare – in fact, in many states a social worker is not permitted to report an illegal who is drawing welfare or other social services. And as long as that is true, we have an enormous problem – welfare acts like a magnet drawing those who will not work.

And you may recall, an attempt was made to pass a federal law requiring social workers and so on to turn in illegals – and no one less than Senator Clinton proclaimed if there were such a law, she would break it.

 

[Bennie_P]

Maybe we should set up military recruitment centers at the border promising citizenship for any able body illegal that will sign up for a 6 year commitment. Of course this would be to build an Army to invade Mexico and Central America in order to make all the inhibtants from the Rio Grande to Panama citizens of the US. Then we would have a much smaller border to defend at Panama and a larger tax base, along with all the resources in the region. That would solve a big portion of the illegal immigration problem?

Nah - nevermind -

 

[lsusportsfan]

Maybe we should set up military recruitment centers at the border promising citizenship for any able body illegal that will sign up for a 6 year commitment. Of course this would be to build an Army to invade Mexico and Central America in order to make all the inhibtants from the Rio Grande to Panama citizens of the US. Then we would have a much smaller border to defend at Panama and a larger tax base, along with all the resources in the region. That would solve a big portion of the illegal immigration problem?

I would be all for these incentives. I think Puerto Ricians became full AMerican Citizens because they became Subject to the Draft

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Maybe we should set up military recruitment centers at the border promising citizenship for any able body illegal that will sign up for a 6 year commitment. Of course this would be to build an Army to invade Mexico and Central America

Hhhhmmm. Sounds good on the surface. I wonder how workable it would be. Yall already do that for non-Americans who sign up for the military, don’t you?

 

[lsusportsfan]

Hhhhmmm. Sounds good on the surface. I wonder how workable it would be. Yall already do that for non-Americans who sign up for the military, don’t you?

We actually do and it has been pretty successful

 

[LCMS_No_More]

What about those who don’t want to work? Welfare in California is much more lucerative than in Sonora or Jalisco.

LOL!!! First of all, immigrants are barred from receiving welfare benefits. There would be an apparent contradiction of this in that the CHILDREN of immigrants are eligible for WIC, but since, under the law, a person born in the United States is a citizen, they aren’t immigrants.

Second, if one looks at the amount of assistance California pays and puts it along side the extremely high cost of living in California, one would see that it’s not a way of becoming rich.

Finally, Mexico doesn’t HAVE welfare. In fact, Mexico’s economy is basically a capitalist DREAM! There’s no real regulation of the economy to ensure that it works to benefit everyone. Any regs on the books are easily avoided by paying off the right officials. Soulds like an objectivist, libertarain, Ayn Rand follower’s dream!

 

[PauloFreire2]

Why can’t the upper class of Mexico show more charity toward its poor? Why must it make enormous profits, while most of its fellow countrymen fight desperately to survive? Why can’t Mexico be more fair to its majority population? What…the Mexican rich are totally off the hook on this, while the U.S. is expected to absorb Mexico’s poverty and make it go away?

 

[vern_humphrey]

LOL!!! First of all, immigrants are barred from receiving welfare benefits. There would be an apparent contradiction of this in that the CHILDREN of immigrants are eligible for WIC, but since, under the law, a person born in the United States is a citizen, they aren’t immigrants.

From cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200308/NAT20030820a.html

Illegal Immigration Turning Calif. Into ‘Apartheid State,’ Expert Warns
By Steve Brown
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
August 20, 2003

(CNSNews.com) - California may evolve into an “apartheid state” unless major changes are made in immigration policy, a panel of immigration experts warned Tuesday.

The problems are fueled primarily by illegal immigration to California, resulting in a growing segment of the population that pays a disproportionately low percentage in taxes; uses a similarly disproportionate amount of welfare services; and increasingly lives in virtually segregated communities while working in more affluent areas of the state, the panelists said.

From worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275

Illegal aliens threaten
U.S. medical system
Docs journal reports hospitals being closed, previously vanquished diseases being spread

---

Posted: March 13, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Cristobal Silverio emigrated illegally from Mexico to Stockton, Calif., in 1997 to work as a fruit picker.

He brought with him his wife, Felipa, and three children, 19, 12 and 8 – all illegals. When Felipa gave birth to her fourth child, daughter Flor, the family had what is referred to as an “anchor baby” – an American citizen by birth who provided the entire Silverio clan a ticket to remain in the U.S. permanently.

From:
cis.org/articles/2002/back1302.html

The percentage of immigrants without a high school diploma is 30 percent, more than 3.5 times the rate for natives. Since 1990, immigration has increased the number of high school dropouts in the labor force by 21 percent, while increasing the supply of all other workers by 5 percent.

The poverty rate for immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) is two-thirds higher than that of natives and their children, 17.6 percent versus 10.6 percent. Immigrants and their minor children now account for almost one in four persons living in poverty.

The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 24.5 percent compared to 16.3 percent for native households.

Second, if one looks at the amount of assistance California pays and puts it along side the extremely high cost of living in California, one would see that it’s not a way of becoming rich.

Second, if one looks at the amount of assistance California pays and puts it along side the extremely low wages south of the border, and considers the living standard to which most illegals are accustomed, it looks pretty good.

Finally, Mexico doesn’t HAVE welfare.

Which means a person on welfare in Mexico might well consider California welfare riches indeed.

In fact, Mexico’s economy is basically a capitalist DREAM! There’s no real regulation of the economy to ensure that it works to benefit everyone. Any regs on the books are easily avoided by paying off the right officials. Soulds like an objectivist, libertarain, Ayn Rand follower’s dream!

And you mean, what by that last screed?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why can’t the upper class of Mexico show more charity toward its poor? Why must it make enormous profits, while most of its fellow countrymen fight desperately to survive? Why can’t Mexico be more fair to its majority population? What…the Mexican rich are totally off the hook on this, while the U.S. is expected to absorb Mexico’s poverty and make it go away?

The question is not, “Why can’t they?” but “Why don’t they?”

And the answer is, they have a safety valve. It’s called the United States.

The people of Mexico don’t force their system to change, because it’s easier to slip across the border into the US. The ruling classes in Mexico like this – if not for the safety valve, their power would have been sharply curtailed long ago, and Mexico would be a prosperous nation, with all the support and other programs the United States has.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

The ruling classes in Mexico like this – if not for the safety valve, their power would have been sharply curtailed long ago, and Mexico would be a prosperous nation, with all the support and other programs the United States has.

Not just Mexico. This problem casts a long long shadow. And that shadow falls squarely over democracy.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Not just Mexico. This problem casts a long long shadow. And that shadow falls squarely over democracy.

One thing we notice is that immigrants often bring with them the thing from which they flee.

 

[manualman]

Let us consider Jose and Miguel. Jose slipped across the border illegally, and has been working under the table in this country for five years. Miguel has played by the rules, applied for a quota and has been waiting for five years.

Under amnesty, which one gets to stay in the US legally, and which one is still waiting?

Vern,

Look back a bit. Under MY plan, Jose will have the burden of a criminal record for the next 10 years, will be working to pay off his fine for up to 5 years and will be covered by a “one strike and you are out” rule in regards to criminal convictions. Miguel has already been on the list, so he will likely get in the first year of my new program with a nice green card, a potpourri of employers to pick from (due to his clean record and proper papers) and an unobstructed road to citizenship.

Miguel suffers BADLY under the EXISTING policy which is effectively a phony border and a phony ban on illegal immigration. My plan turns the tables and rewards those who tried to play by the book.

I don’t like guest worker ideas. This culture doesn’t need a servant class. It DOES need fresh blood to keep the melting pot interesting and vital. But that approach DIES when you artificially keep folks separate with a guest worker system. You want to work here? Join us. Become us. Be a citizen and pay the price. Don’t want that? Then stay home and fix your own beloved country.

Vern makes some points about Mexico cynically using the inept American immigration control to avoid having real social services, but I still think my carrot will work better than his stick. Fix our side of the problem and show the exploitive class in Mexico how much their castoffs can achieve. In a generation or two, they won’t ALLOW them to leave!