Creatio Ex Nihilo and Mormons

[ChristIsTheWay]

John 1:3.Copan and Craig also argue that John 1:3 supports the idea of creation out of nothing (here given in KJV): “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν). Copan and Craig assert of this verse: “The implication is that all things (which would include preexistent matter, if that were applicable to the creative process) exist through God’s agent, who is the originator of everything” (pp. 117-18). But this verse says nothing about the creation of “preexistent matter.” One must assume beforehand that the word create must mean to create ex nihilo in order to arrive at this conclusion, for this verse says only that if something was made, then it was made through the Word. It does not address anything that may not have been made. More important, it does not address how those things were made, its point being through whom the creation was made. Anything that was made was made by Christ. Since the translation one reviews is so critical to interpretation, I will provide another translation: “All things came about through him and without him not one thing came about, which came about.”[27] The question in this case is whether the final phrase which came about is part of this verse or the beginning of the next verse. Hubler explains:

The punctuation of [John 1:3] becomes critical to its meaning. Proponents of creatio ex materia could easily qualify the creatures of the Word to that "which came about," excluding matter. Proponents of creatio ex nihilo could place a period after "not one thing came about" and leave "which came about" to the next sentence. The absence of a determinate tradition of punctuation in New Testament [Greek] texts leaves room for both interpretations. Neither does creation by word imply ex nihilo (contra Bultmann) as we have seen in Egypt, Philo, and Midrash Rabba, and even in 2 Peter 3:5, where the word functions to organize pre-cosmic matter.[28]

Nice, make up your own translation. Of course it doesn’t address how things were made because they were made ex nihilo, from nothing. There is no need to explain that. Appealing to “things not made,” won’t cut it. It just sounds silly. “God made everything except the things He didn’t make.” Duh.

Of course, the reality of this text is that it does not consciously address the issue of creation ex nihilo at all. It states who accomplished the creation, not how it was done.[29] A person who accepts creation from chaos can easily say that no “thing” came about that is not a result of the Word’s bringing it about but agree that there is a chaos in which no “things” exist prior to their creation as such. Copan and Craig hang their hat on the connotations of the word πάντα, meaning “all” in an inclusive sense. They argue that because “all” things that come about are brought about by the Word, there is no possibility of an uncreated reality that has not been brought about by God. However, the final phrase, ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν, translated “nothing made that was made,” limits the scope of the creative power to the order of the created and implies that whatever is not made was not made by him. If it is created, he created it; if it is not, then it is not within the scope of “what is made.”

This is one of the silliest things I’ve ever heard. Of course God didn’t make some things and so they don’t exist. All is a pretty inclusive word and denotes all creation, even an uncreated reality, which this verse denies exists.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

**I note you conveniently forgot to mention the text from Jubilees in your review. For those interested, here is what Jubilees 2:2 says:

“For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the angels of the presence, and the angels of sanctification, and the angels [of the spirit of fire and the angels] of the spirit of the winds, and the angels of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the angels of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the angels of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth, (He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide , and the light, dawn and day, which He hath prepared in the knowledge of his heart.”

Jubilees was written between 135 BC and 105 BC. It is pretty evident from this verse that it teaches creatio ex nihilo, thus dismantling your whole argument that the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo was invented by mid-second century Christian apologists. No wonders you skipped over this text.**

The Dead Sea Scrolls. Copan and Craig suggest that texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls, produced around the time of Christ, assume creation out of nothing (CON, pp. 105-7). For example, they quote the Rule of the Congregation (1QSa) found among the scrolls: “From the God of Knowledge comes all that is and shall be. Before ever they existed He established their whole design, and when, as ordained for them, they come into being, it is in accord with His glorious design that they accomplish their task without change.”[36] They also quote 1QS XI, 11:

By his knowledge everything shall come into being,

and all that does exist

he establishes with his calculations

and nothing is done outside of him. (NMC, p. 122)

They assert that in these texts they see an ex nihilo understanding of creation during this period (pp. 122-23). Such a reading forces the text with assumptions that simply are not addressed in it. These texts do not address whether God used prior material or how God created the earth. All the texts from the scrolls cited by Copan and Craig address only the fact that God has predestined the course of the world and has knowledge of all things before they occur. Nothing happens without God having a knowledge before it happens or “comes to be.” The mere assertions that God knew of something before he brought it about and that he brought it about through his power are not inconsistent with creatio ex materia. Latter-day Saints believe that before God created the earth he knew its whole design, that by his knowledge he created all things that came into existence, and yet that he created them by organizing a chaos. In other words, there is nothing asserted in these texts that is inconsistent with what Latter-day Saints believe (except that they reject the all-pervasive predestination that the Dead Sea covenanters believed in).

You just can’t accept unambiguous evidence for creatio ex nihilo, can you? This text clearly teaches it. It doesn’t address the material that the universe was made out of because it wasn’t made out of any material, God made it ex nihilo!

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Rabbi Gamaliel. Copan and Craig next refer to a statement by the first-century rabbi Gamaliel as support for creatio ex nihilo:

A philosopher asked Rabban Gamaliel, "Your God was a great artist, but he found himself good materials which helped him." Rabban Gamaliel replied, "What are these?" The philosopher said, "Chaos, darkness, waters, wind, and depths" (see Genesis 1.2). Rabban Gamaliel replied, "May the breath go forth from this man. It is written concerning each of these. Concerning the creation of chaos, 'Who made peace and created evil' (Isaiah 45:7). Concerning darkness, 'Who formed the light and created darkness.' Concerning the waters, 'Praise him, heavens and the waters, etc.' (Psalm 148:4). Why? Because, 'He commanded and they were created' (v. 8). Concerning the wind, 'For behold he forms the mountains and creates the wind' (Amos 4:13). Concerning the depths, 'When the depths were not, I danced'" (Proverbs 8:24).[37]

However, Gamaliel does not adopt the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo. David Winston and Hubler both argue that Gameliel denies that any of these cosmic forces aided God in creation. He does not deny that there was a passive material, merely that there was any material that aided God in the construction of the cosmos.[38] Hubler places this text in the context of other rabbinic texts that strictly prohibit any speculation about what there may have been prior to the creation in Genesis. In this context, it seems fairly evident that Gamaliel is actually teaching that God did not have any helpers in the creation—but, in good rabbinic fashion, that he refuses to go beyond that principle and speculate about what might have existed before the creation.[39]

More unambiguous evidence for creatio ex nihilo and you try to use an argument from authority to get out of it. The rabbi clearly states God created everything, absolutely everything, and then you try to deny it. That won’t cut it.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

2 Enoch. Copan and Craig also argue that 2 Enoch (Slavonic, probably dating from the first century) teaches creation out of nothing. In their book, they correct a critical mistake in their understanding of 2 Enoch in the article, where they argued that the assertion that God made “the visible from the invisible” teaches creation out of nothing. There they argue that what is invisible (as in Hebrews 10:3) is “nothing” and that 2 Enoch teaches that “visible things are created from invisible things” (see NMC, p. 124). In their book, however, they recognize that it is clear that the invisible things are not “nothing” but rather are things that exist, though unseen. Nevertheless, they extend their argument to insist that 2 Enoch teaches a two-stage creation: first the invisible things are created from nothing and then the visible things are created from the invisible things (CON, pp. 100-102). Second Enoch 24:2 asserts: “Before anything at all existed, from the very beginning, whatever exists I created from the non-existent, and from the invisible the visible.” Thus, Copan and Craig claim that 2 Enoch teaches creation out of nothing.[40]

Sounds like a two-stage creation to me. First God makes the invisible things, perhaps shapeless matter, then He creates the universe from it. Perfectly valid exegesis.

However, Copan and Craig miss the schema of creation presented in 2 Enoch. First, the assertion in 2 Enoch that God created all that exists “from non-being” (recension A) or “from the non-existent” (recension J) appears to use the term “non-being” as a reference to the underlying, formless substrate.

I can only say, prove it. You’ve provided no evidence that the term non-being is a reference to anything but nothing.

It is clear that the invisible from which the visible things are created is not absolutely nothing, because “before any visible things had come into existence, I, the one, moved around in the invisible things” (2 Enoch 24:4). God cannot move around in what does not exist in any way. Moreover, 2 Enoch says that God himself is invisible among the invisible things (2 Enoch 24:4 [A]).

Of course God moved about the invisible things and is invisible Himself. You know what 2 Enoch never states? That the invisible things are co-eternal with God.

The Lord is the one who laid the foundations upon the unknown things, and he is the one who spread out the heavens above the visible and the invisible things. And the earth he solidified above the waters, and waters he based upon the unfixed things; and he (alone) created the uncountable creatures. . . . From the invisible things and the visible he created all the visible things; /and/ he himself is invisible. (2 Enoch 47:3-5 [J]; 48:5, emphasis added)

2 Enoch clearly states there was a time before anything was, including the unknown things.

This passage makes it clear that the invisible things are indeed things and that the uncreated God is counted among the invisible things. Moreover, in creating, God sets the foundations for the creation (the first thing used in creating) upon the already existent “unknown things.” Copan and Craig point out in their book that 2 Enoch asserts that God created the invisible things as well as the visible. Second Enoch 65:1[J] states: “Before ever anything existed, and before ever any created thing was created, the Lord created the whole of his creation, visible and invisible.” They take this passage to teach creation ex nihilo (CON, p. 102).

Again, perfectly valid exegesis on the part of Craig and Copan.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

However, it is clear that God did not create all the invisible things out of nothing because the text expressly states that God is uncreated (2 Enoch 33-25)—and God is also one of the invisible things.

No duh. Of course God is uncreated.

Moreover, the language used is very precise: “before ever any created thing was created.” the text carefully limits the scope of god’s creation to what is created, implying that there is something uncreated. Moreover, the text expressly speaks of the “light” as the uncreated reality. As f. I. Andersen noted: “out of the original invisible things, god calls two beings: Adoil, from whom is born the great light, and arukhas, from whom comes the darkness. Water is made by thickening a mixture of light and darkness. But light, if anything, is the great elemental substance.”[41]

I don’t know about anyone else, but your exegesis sounds flawed. 2 Enoch clearly teaches God created the invisible things, maybe more than once. So, from the original invisible creation, he makes light and darkness and water.

Copan and Craig are correct indeed that a multistage creation is presented in 2 Enoch, but 2 Enoch does not accept creation ex nihilo. Several Jewish texts and Romans 4:17 state that god creates by calling to or giving commands to “non-being.” Second Enoch explains what it is that God calls to: He calls to the light and the darkness as if they were two sentient beings—adoil, from whom light issues, and arukhas, from whom darkness issues (2 Enoch 25:1-5). As Andersen affirms: “the dualism of light and darkness arises from two primal beings, adoil and ar(u)khas. 2en does not say that god created them, but they are clearly under his control.”[42] from these two invisible things the rest of creation is created. Second Enoch thus expressly teaches creation from a preexisting substrate of invisible things that do not have form and thus are referred to as “non-being.” the process of creation, according to 2 Enoch, is (1) god commands “the lowest things” (or the most fundamental)—adoil (to disintegrate into light) and arukhas (to disintegrate into darkness); (2) light solidifies into the upper foundation (25:4) and the darkness solidifies into the lower foundation (26:2); and (3) water is created from the mixture of light and darkness (27:2). In any event, Copan and Craig have misconstrued 2 Enoch and once again taken a text that teaches creation from preexisting realities as if it were evidence of creation out of nothing. Second Enoch is also a crucial example of the use of the term create to refer to commanding already existing realities and organizing a cosmos out of formless light.

2 Enoch clearly teaches there was a time before anything else existed. You yourself quoted it. There aren’t two uncreated primal beings.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

The Shepherd of Hermas. Copan and Craig next cite the Shepherd of Hermas, a Christian text from the middle of the second century (about AD 140). They begin by citing a text from the Mandates: “First, one must believe that God is one and that he has created and organized and made them from the non-existence into existence, and contains all, but alone is uncontained” (πρῶτον πάντων πίστευσον ὅτι εἷς ἐστὶν ὁ θεός, ὁ τὰ πάντα κτίσας καὶ καταρτίσας, καὶ ποιήσας ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ὄντος εἰς τὸ εἶναι τὰ πάντα, καὶ πάντα χωρῶν, μόνος δὲ ἀχώρητος ὤν).[43] Copan and Craig take this passage to be a clear reference to creation out of nothing because God alone is uncontained whereas matter is contained (CON, p. 128). But such language only means that the scope of God’s power is not limited to or contained by his physical presence, whereas matter is so contained. This text carefully uses language that indicates relative non-being, the ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ὄντος (ek tou mē ontos), rather than absolute negation. Georg Schuttermayr has presented a very detailed study of the use of οὐκ ἐκ ὄντων in early Christian authors and Philo and concluded that one must be careful not to read the notion of creation out of nothing from such language.[44] As Hubler commented,

Once again, ἐκ μὴ ὄντος‚ alone cannot be taken as an absolute denial of material substrate. By itself this phrase is insufficient to carry the burden of a decisive and well-defined position both because ἐκ and ὄν are notoriously equivocal. Ὄν does not necessarily designate material cause, but it can be used temporally. 'Ον does not necessarily refer to absolute non-being, but the non-existence of what later came to be. To read creatio ex nihilo in Hermes [sic] goes far beyond the warrant of the text, which makes no clear claim to the presence or absence of material and provides no discussion of the position.[45]

The Shepherd of Hermas clearly teaches creatio ex nihilo. You have to retreat to into arcane semantics in order to avoid it. Craig and Copan provide a sound exegesis of the Shepherd of Hermas.

Copan and Craig also cite the Visions: “God, who dwells in heaven, and created that which is out of non-existence (κτίσας ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ὄντος).”[46] Once again, the technical phrase for relative non-being is used: ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ὄντος. As we have seen, Aristotle used the phrase ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ὄντος (ek tou mē ontos) to refer to relative non-being generating new life from parents already existing. Incidentally, it is extremely significant that the first “scriptural” arguments in history to support the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo—formulated by Irenaeus (about AD 185) and Origen (AD 220)—did not cite scriptures from the canon accepted by evangelicals and Latter-day Saints. Rather, Irenaeus and Origen cited the Shepherd of Hermas and 2 Maccabees 7:28.[47] The reason they cited these texts is obvious—these writers did not know of any scriptures within the canon that supported the doctrine of creation ex nihilo. It is ironic, therefore, that even these two texts do not teach the dogma of creatio ex nihilo. It is also significant that the Shepherd of Hermas adopted the technical language for creation from the term that describes relative nonbeing—ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ὄντος—which makes it fairly clear that God created what is from potential being, not from absolute nothing, or ex nihilo.[48]

You’re grasping at straws. Any text that clearly teaches creatio ex nihilo is twisted and distorted by until it becomes palatable to Mormon ears.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Joseph and Aseneth. Copan and Craig next cite the Jewish pseudepigraphical book Joseph and Aseneth, written sometime between the second century BC and the second century AD: “Lord God of the ages, . . . who brought the invisible (things) out into the light, who made the (things that) are and the (ones that) have an appearance from the non-appearing and non-being” (p. 123).[49] However, once again Copan and Craig do not note that God’s “making to appear those things which are invisible” (cf. Hebrews 11:3) actually imputes an existing status to those things that are not seen. Just as in 2 Enoch and Colossians, the assertion that God made visible things “from the non-appearing and non-being” simply refers to the already existing, invisible substrate out of which God created visible things. Invisible things are still things; they simply have not been made visible by God. Indeed, this view is strongly supported by the fact that the phrase “he brought the invisible (things) out into light” relies on the Septuagint, Genesis 1:2, and thus refers to bringing light out of the already existing darkness of the abyss. The same thought is expressed again in 8:10, which also relies on the Septuagint text of Genesis 1:2: “Lord God of my father Israel, the Most High, the Powerful One of Jacob, who gave life to all (things) and called (them) from the darkness into the light” (author’s translation). The statement that God calls forth invisible things into the light to be seen posits the invisible things as already existing in the darkness of unformed matter.

All l can say is “wow.” How you get this conclusion from the evidence is beyond me. It is perfectly possible the invisible things are Ideas and Forms in the mind of God or that they are created. No where does the text teach that the invisible things were uncreated, only that they came first. Other than that, the text clearly teaches God created all things.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I could go on with criticizing this review of Copan and Craig’s book but I think I have made my point. Mr. Ostler has twisted and distorted scripture and extra-scriptural passages so as to make creatio ex materia seem reasonable when it is not. The texts listed all clearly support creatio ex nihilo, usually in the form of a two-stage creation. This is my final word on the subject, unless someone posts something else. Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread.