Creation and individuality

[Ion]

On youtube, there are some videos with Fr. Lazarus, a Coptic monk who is trying to live a monastic life like Saint Anthony the Great. Very interesting, I thought monastic life like that have vanished long time ago.
He said a very interesting thing about the Creation of humans: he said that he as a person (and therefore any person) was actually designed at the same time with Adam, God have planned him as a person at the Creation. I was very surprised to find myself thinking about my beliefs somehow “corrupted” by evolutionism. Personally, I did have the idea that I was the result of a random combination of genes which was given a soul…
What are the church teachings on this matter?

 

[Julia_Mae]

OPersonally, I did have the idea that I was the result of a random combination of genes which was given a soul…
What are the church teachings on this matter?

Genetic selection is not a random process and never has been, that’s a cultural misunderstanding fed by the likes of Richard Dawkins who only had one good idea in his professional life.

The Church doesn’t not teach that we did not, as a species, evolve.

 

[Patrick1540]

On youtube, there are some videos with Fr. Lazarus, a Coptic monk who is trying to live a monastic life like Saint Anthony the Great. Very interesting, I thought monastic life like that have vanished long time ago.
He said a very interesting thing about the Creation of humans: he said that he as a person (and therefore any person) was actually designed at the same time with Adam, God have planned him as a person at the Creation. I was very surprised to find myself thinking about my beliefs somehow “corrupted” by evolutionism. Personally, I did have the idea that I was the result of a random combination of genes which was given a soul…
What are the church teachings on this matter?

Evolution is a lie that the world created. There is no scientific fact of evolution, only theory. I do know there is fact for Creationism in the Church,in the Bible, and even a creation museum in Glen Rose,Texas which I do not know if the Church recognizes,but I find it pretty cool.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Evolution is a lie that the world created. There is no scientific fact of evolution, only theory.

“Theory” is a scientific word that means: “An explanation of an observed or predicted phenomenon.” It is not a word that means “guess.” Theories are based on a variety of facts and evidences from observations, researches and experiments.

The Theory of Aerodynamics does not mean “We think it might be possible that things can fly.” Instead, it explains, in part, how it is that things do fly and how somethings might be able to fly. Interestingly, even though humans have been making things fly by using theories of aerodynamics for over a thousand years, it was only in the last few years that they figured out how bumblebees fly, because according to the Theory of Aerodynamics, they couldn’t!

Yet, they did.

So, a theory is just the explanation, and most scientific theories are pretty big and complex. Parts of them are almost always accurate and other parts aren’t as much and are added to and refined as more is understood. “Evolution” means “change over time.” When we talk about it, we usually mean “biological evolution” which means plants and animals have changed. The theory of evolution doesn’t mean “we think maybe its possible species have changed” it means “here are explanations of how species change.”

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

ewtn.com/library/humanity/evolutn.txt

 

[Patrick1540]

“Theory” is a scientific word that means: “An explanation of an observed or predicted phenomenon.” It is not a word that means “guess.” Theories are based on a variety of facts and evidences from observations, researches and experiments.

The Theory of Aerodynamics does not mean “We think it might be possible that things can fly.” Instead, it explains, in part, how it is that things do fly and how somethings might be able to fly. Interestingly, even though humans have been making things fly by using theories of aerodynamics for over a thousand years, it was only in the last few years that they figured out how bumblebees fly, because according to the Theory of Aerodynamics, they couldn’t!

Yet, they did.

So, a theory is just the explanation, and most scientific theories are pretty big and complex. Parts of them are almost always accurate and other parts aren’t as much and are added to and refined as more is understood. “Evolution” means “change over time.” When we talk about it, we usually mean “biological evolution” which means plants and animals have changed. The theory of evolution doesn’t mean “we think maybe its possible species have changed” it means “here are explanations of how species change.”

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

ewtn.com/library/humanity/evolutn.txt

Ok, I stand corrected. From what I read in the urls that are posted. So the stance of the Catholic Church is on the “what” created everything and not the “How” is what I’m saying correct? We also have the freedom though to explore the “How” correct? Then why is it the mouth of every river that flows into an ocean,the setimeant only 4,500 years old? Wouldn’t great abyss in the ocean floors would have been filled, if the earth was millions of years old?Why is it the radiation partiles in granite has a half life of less than 1/5 a second of half life and that is where radon gas comes from? Then granite would have been formed in less than 1/5 off a second or the radio active particles in it would have escaped correct? Why is there a Creation museum in Glenn Rose, Texas have proof of fossiles of both dynosors and modern man together, tree that go through rock layers that are suppose to be millions of years old in each layer? Why are there millions of years of layers missing in rock formations all over the earth, especially in Grand canyon? I would give a link to these sites, but I do not wish to be promoting any agenda, all though according to what I read we are aloud latitude in exploring the “How” if I’m correct.You can research it for yourself. God Bless

 

[Julia_Mae]

Ok, I stand corrected. From what I read in the urls that are posted. So the stance of the Catholic Church is on the “what” created everything and not the “How” is what I’m saying correct?

The Church allows people to believe in a literal interpretation if they wish to.

We also have the freedom though to explore the “How” correct? Then why is it the mouth of every river that flows into an ocean,the setimeant only 4,500 years old?

It is not correct to say that sediments deposited by rivers are only 4500 yrs old. Some are only 30 seconds old. The earth that is eroded off by the rivers, generally comes from topsoils deposited along the sides of the riverbeds during floods. Those floods are of recent origin for the most part.

Top soil is composed of decayed plant and animal matter (and nowadays decayed garbage), wind erosion deposit and water erosion redeposit. Geology is a very interesting branch of science, perhaps some day you’d like studying it.

Wouldn’t great abyss in the ocean floors would have been filled, if the earth was millions of years old?

Again, geology is very interesting and you would probably enjoy learning more about it. I suppose, if the earth didn’t change over time, and the oceans were stable and we just kept pouring sand into the oceans from a height, possibly they would “fill” and then the water would flood the land and we’d have the movie “Waterworld.” But what happens instead is that the sediments collect and build up and at the mouths of rivers there is created a marsh, and the land fills in as the plants and animals die and decompose and the land extends out. Much of the southern United States on either side of the Mississippi was created this way.

Of course, the continents have moved around quite a bit and the oceans have changed and do keep spreading apart because of the big crack that runs right down the center of the Atlantic, and the molten underneath of the earth keeps pushing up and becoming new ocean floor and pushing the sides apart. They have film of that now if you are interested.

Why is it the radiation partiles in granite has a half life of less than 1/5 a second of half life and that is where radon gas comes from? Then granite would have been formed in less than 1/5 off a second or the radio active particles in it would have escaped correct?

No, not at all. Radiation isn’t a particle, various particles of different substances have different half-lives. Radon comes from the natural decay of uranium235. Uranium-235 has a half-life of 703.8 million years. Try this from the USGS:

energy.cr.usgs.gov/radon/georadon/2.html

Why is there a Creation museum in Glenn Rose, Texas have proof of fossiles of both dynosors and modern man together,

You may wish to check out the info here: paleo.cc/paluxy/wilker6.htm From the page:

The Burdick Print (or Burdick Track) is claimed by some … to be a “giant man track” from Glen Rose, Texas. However, it is one of several prints on loose blocks of rock which show strong evidence of a carved origin, and is acknowledged by Glen Rose residents to be one of the carvings made by George Adams in the 1930’s. It shows serious anatomic errors as well as subsurface features which truncate at the print’s surface, confirming it’s carved origin. Furthermore, the orientation of algal fossils in the rock suggests that the original “up” direction was the side opposite the alleged footprint. In other words, evidently the carver unwittingly created the print on what was originally the bottom side of the rock.
…

At least one man is known to have carved several “man tracks” in Glen Rose during the 1920’s and 1930’s. In 1970 a Glen Rose resident, Wayland Adams, stood before a group of creationists and described the technique his uncle George Adams used to carve such tracks. First, a suitable-sized stone slab would be found (preferably one that already had some depressions, to save carving time), and a shady spot under a tree would be selected as a workshop. Next, the footprint would be carved using hammer and chisel. A center punch was used to simulate raindrops, followed by an application of muriatic acid to dull the chisel and punch marks. For an aged appearance (p. 73) the slab would be covered with manure for a few days. Last, the edges of the slab were chipped to give the impression of a track chiseled from the riverbed (Morris, 1980, p. 111-12).

I would give a link to these sites, but I do not wish to be promoting any agenda, all though according to what I read we are aloud latitude in exploring the “How” if I’m correct.You can research it for yourself. God Bless

You are certainly allowed to look into whatever claims you wish. As for myself, I spent a considerable number of years in university studying these very matters and so have already researched as much as I think I need to.

 

[Ion]

The moment a scientist says something happened by chance, whitout providing the probability, from that moment he becomes a “scientist”.
Chance over imense period of time can do anything, no?

 

[Julia_Mae]

The moment a scientist says something happened by chance, whitout providing the probability, from that moment he becomes a “scientist”.
Chance over imense period of time can do anything, no?

But it’s not “chance.” This is a big misunderstanding. There are factors that seem very random. But most of the actions of change are not random at all.

You said this in the op:

Personally, I did have the idea that I was the result of a random combination of genes which was given a soul…

Gene frequencies in populations are not ever random and are influenced very little by chance. So, all of the different types of life are what they are for definite reasons that can be discerned in nature.

 

[Patrick1540]

But it’s not “chance.” This is a big misunderstanding. There are factors that seem very random. But most of the actions of change are not random at all.
You said this in the op:
Gene frequencies in populations are not ever random and are influenced very little by chance. So, all of the different types of life are what they are for definite reasons that can be discerned in nature.

Julia,I’m sorry but you are twisting what I have posted. Yes some radio active ions, have a longer half life, but how do you explain radio active ions in granite having a half live of less than 1/15 of a second? wouldn’t they have to have been deposited in the granite and granite created in less than 1/15 of a second???Is not radon gas proof of this??? Sediments on Continent shelves at the mouth of rivers, I never said they were not less than 4500 years old did I??? Was I not making a statement that they are no older than 4500 years? Does this not support the Bible and the Great Flood of Noah???Why are there trees through Billion years of rock layers with no tops or roots, which show Noah’s flood??? So would you believe Flood, lasted for billions and billions of years???So do you believe we came from proteins, that got together in a pool of slime, under God’s direction? Do you believe in biological Evolution, under the direction of God, when the Bible says he created like with it’s like?So then do you believe animals evolved,cross breed to create a new spices, that could reproduce itself,under the direction of God? Why then when
you breed a mule and a donkey you get a sterile mule? I might suggest you visit the Creation Museum in Glen Rose,Texas. I’m not an expert in the field,but they are. In fact they even can explain how our atmosphere was different, before Noah’s flood, it was heaver and things were way bigger, even man. They even have fossil of Dinosaur and modern man foot prints together,which supports the Book of Job.The have fossil of Dinosaur in periods of rock after man was created, even after secular science says they exist. I suggest a trip there,than we can debate.I trust the Bible, I do not trust many secular scientist, they have motive to prove no God, who about you?
God Bless

s

 

[Julia_Mae]

Julia,I’m sorry but you are twisting what I have posted. Yes some radio active ions, have a longer half life, but how do you explain radio active ions in granite having a half live of less than 1/15 of a second?

How about if you link me to where you got this information. Also, please don’t accuse me of “twisting” anything as if I would purposely misrepresent anything you wrote. It’s tantamount to calling me a liar. I am not. I assume you are not.

wouldn’t they have to have been deposited in the granite and granite created in less than 1/15 of a second??? Is not radon gas proof of this???

No to both questions. Please give me a link to whatever you read so I can see what was said and give you better information…

Sediments on Continent shelves at the mouth of rivers, I never said they were not less than 4500 years old did I??? Was I not making a statement that they are no older than 4500 years? Does this not support the Bible and the Great Flood of Noah???

No sediments at river mouths are 4500 years old. Anywhere. The sediments prove absolutely nothing in terms of Noah’s flood. I’m not sure why you think they would. As I have said, they cannot be very old anywhere at all because they keep being replaced by new sediments. How can something that formed within the last 50 years have anything to do with Noah’s flood?

Why are there trees through Billion years of rock layers with no tops or roots, which show Noah’s flood???

Again, please provide your source. Unless I know where you got this information (which is not correct) I cannot give you better information.

So do you believe we came from proteins, that got together in a pool of slime, under God’s direction? Do you believe in biological Evolution, under the direction of God, when the Bible says he created like with it’s like?So then do you believe animals evolved,cross breed to create a new spices, that could reproduce itself,under the direction of God? Why then when
you breed a mule and a donkey you get a sterile mule? I might suggest you visit the Creation Museum in Glen Rose,Texas. I’m not an expert in the field,but they are.

No, they aren’t. But I am. CAF has, as far as I know, banned discussion about evolution per se. But we can talk about geology, I think. We could talk about genetics and how percentages of certain genes in populations change over time, perhaps.

I don’t know where you got the idea that the Church interprets the Bible literally. She does not. The Catechism tells us the story of Creation is told in figurative language: that is - it’s a symbolic rendering of events that occurred.

Here is something Pope Benedict XVI said:

.

Currently, I see in Germany, but also in the United States, a somewhat fierce debate raging between so-called “creationism” and evolutionism, presented as though they were mutually exclusive alternatives: those who believe in the Creator would not be able to conceive of evolution, and those who instead support evolution would have to exclude God. This antithesis is absurd because, on the one hand, there are so many scientific proofs in favour of evolution which appears to be a reality we can see and which enriches our knowledge of life and being as such. But on the other, the doctrine of evolution does not answer every query, especially the great philosophical question: where does everything come from? And how did everything start which ultimately led to man? I believe this is of the utmost importance.

There’s a good page on the history of this issue in Catholic thought here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

They even have fossil of Dinosaur and modern man foot prints together,which supports the Book of Job.

No, they really don’t.

I trust the Bible, I do not trust many secular scientist, they have motive to prove no God, who about you?

Well, this is a Catholic forum and while we certainly do use Scripture as part of the Deposit of Faith, we do not believe it is a science book or always a literal rendition of historical fact and we listen to our Popes and Magisterium, who don’t find any incompatibility between the changes in life forms over vast periods of time and the Truth of the Church. I was a scientist, I knew a lot of scientists, I was educated in and worked in this field and it had never caused me to doubt my Faith in any way and I knew many others in the field who also were Christians. You are certainly free to believe as you wish, but I think it’s important to know that others can believe differently and still be faithful Christians and fully within the Body of Christ.

 

[Patrick1540]

How about if you link me to where you got this information. Also, please don’t accuse me of “twisting” anything as if I would purposely misrepresent anything you wrote. It’s tantamount to calling me a liar. I am not. I assume you are not.
My statement was about the radio active ions in granite put there in less than 1/5 of a second,why it puts off radon gas.You did not stay on that topic, you changed it.Not calling you a liar,just evasive.

No to both questions. Please give me a link to whatever you read so I can see what was said and give you better information…
No I can’t give you link on this website, that would be promoting a agenda, from what I understand on CAF rules. I won’t be sucker in to that. I told you museum, you can google website on your own.

No sediments at river mouths are 4500 years old. Anywhere. The sediments prove absolutely nothing in terms of Noah’s flood. I’m not sure why you think they would. As I have said, they cannot be very old anywhere at all because they keep being replaced by new sediments. How can something that formed within the last 50 years have anything to do with Noah’s flood?
Ahhh, I said on the Continent shelf, not just mouth of river.You have answered single question I asked! Why is not the ocean floor full of Sediments and has abyss if earth is Billions of years old??? Makes no sense geological speaking.

Again, please provide your source. Unless I know where you got this information (which is not correct) I cannot give you better information.
Information is correct, google Creation Museum in Glen Rose,Texas, I have been there.

No, they aren’t. But I am. CAF has, as far as I know, banned discussion about evolution per se. But we can talk about geology, I think. We could talk about genetics and how percentages of certain genes in populations change over time, perhaps.
So when God made like with like, what does that mean then???
I don’t know where you got the idea that the Church interprets the Bible literally. She does not. The Catechism tells us the story of Creation is told in figurative language: that is - it’s a symbolic rendering of events that occurred.

Here is something Pope Benedict XVI said:

.

There’s a good page on the history of this issue in Catholic thought here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

I never said the Catholic Church does. I said the opposite, I agreed with your website postings,remember I said I stand corrected!

No, they really don’t.

Well, this is a Catholic forum and while we certainly do use Scripture as part of the Deposit of Faith, we do not believe it is a science book or always a literal rendition of historical fact and we listen to our Popes and Magisterium, who don’t find any incompatibility between the changes in life forms over vast periods of time and the Truth of the Church. I was a scientist, I knew a lot of scientists, I was educated in and worked in this field and it had never caused me to doubt my Faith in any way and I knew many others in the field who also were Christians. You are certainly free to believe as you wish, but I think it’s important to know that others can believe differently and still be faithful Christians and fully within the Body of Christ.

Posted some answers to your questions above,but don’t know how to separate from your post.

You still didn’t answer the question I posted on previous post. What I know is we are focus on God, but if geology and science can help us back the Faith, why not have it? God Created the Universe in 7 days, 7 is said to be completion of God’s work so how I thought it was number 10? God rested on the seventh day, does this mean he rested for billions of years like a geologist would say? I will not promote a non Catholic website on a CAF. If you want to see the evidance google Creation Museum in Glen Rose, Texas. They have all the geological evidence you could want. Also google Dr. Grady McMurtry on more geological evidence. I would appreciate you answer question I have posted in the way I posted them. like Continental shelves by the mouth of river and not the mouth of the river. Sediment on the Atlantic,Pacific Continent self is 4,500 years old or less, that is a fact. Look it up! Grand Canyon shoes all this evidence, it came from Noah’s Flood. Many non secular Geologist have found these things out, but are not recognized, because it goes against secular geology,science, which base there opinions on evolution.Granite radio active ions did it for me, blew secular geology out of the water. You believe what you want, I have the right to believe the evidence presented to me.Guess I’m not back fully in the Catholic faith. I was just coming back this weekend.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Guess I’m not back fully in the Catholic faith. I was just coming back this weekend.

Welcome home.

 

[SteveVH]

On youtube, there are some videos with Fr. Lazarus, a Coptic monk who is trying to live a monastic life like Saint Anthony the Great. Very interesting, I thought monastic life like that have vanished long time ago.
He said a very interesting thing about the Creation of humans: he said that he as a person (and therefore any person) was actually designed at the same time with Adam, God have planned him as a person at the Creation. I was very surprised to find myself thinking about my beliefs somehow “corrupted” by evolutionism. Personally, I did have the idea that I was the result of a random combination of genes which was given a soul…
What are the church teachings on this matter?

“For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.”

• Psalm 139:13-16