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Pieman333272
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Where is support for Creation ex nihilo found in scripture?
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AnthonyPadua001
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The first scripture passages that come to mind are 2 Maccabees 7:22-23, 28 and Romans 4:17. The significance is that the creation stories in the Bible are actually** creation stories **as opposed to **formation stories **found in other ancient writings. Read CCC 296-298 for more info on ex nihilo if you’re interested.
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UnworthyApostle
Guest
"[1] In the beginning God created heaven, and earth."Genesis 1:1
If God created heaven and earth, then how could it be anything else but by Ex Nihilo?
If God had something, namely matter,space,time etc., in the begining, then the scripture would have read something as to God formed, moved,arranged etc. The latter implies that something would be present with God, but creation implies something from nothing, ex nihilo.
If God created heaven and earth, then how could it be anything else but by Ex Nihilo?
If God had something, namely matter,space,time etc., in the begining, then the scripture would have read something as to God formed, moved,arranged etc. The latter implies that something would be present with God, but creation implies something from nothing, ex nihilo.
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Bible_Reader
Guest
The problem with this Scriptural proof is that it is not supported by the underlying Hebrew of Genesis 1:1-3. See, for example, this note from the NABRE (although the same point is made in many, many commentaries):"[1] In the beginning God created heaven, and earth."Genesis 1:1
If God created heaven and earth, then how could it be anything else but by Ex Nihilo?.
Until modern times, the first line was always translated, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Several comparable ancient cosmogonies, discovered in recent times, have a “when … then” construction, confirming the translation “when … then” here as well. “When” introduces the pre-creation state and “then” introduces the creative act affecting that state. The traditional translation, "In the beginning,: does not reflect the Hebrew syntax of the clause.
1:2 This verse is parenthetical, describing in three phases the pre-creation state symbolized by the chaos out of which God brings order…
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Third_Day
Guest
The clearist place in scripture that supports ex nihilo is 2 Maccabees 7:28 “look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed.”Where is support for Creation ex nihilo found in scripture?
The Church formally confirmed this dogma at the Lateran Counvil IV in 1215 and Vatican 1 in 1870
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bogeydogg
Guest
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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Crumpy
Guest
the reference to “the heavens and the earth” is an idiom (figure of speech) for “everything.”
there are several such examples in Genesis.
there are several such examples in Genesis.
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rcjones
Guest
Concerning issues of faith I wouldn’t turn to a rabbi, but concerning the language I would.
Here is a dialog concerning the every issue:
What’s really interesting is that using the rabbinic methods, John 1:1-4 can be derived from the first three words of Gen 1:1
Since the rabbi says ‘bara’ means ‘word’ : (remember Hebrew had no vowels, so ignore them.)
Gen 1:1 bereshit bara elohim beginning word God
bara is in the word bereshit… so in the beginning was the word
bara Elohim … the words are side by side… the word was with God
bara Elohim … since bara describes God, the word was God
bereshit bara Elohim … bar means son, so the beginning was the son of God (the alpha in the alpha and omega was the son of God)
Furthermore, Elohim has two puns.
L’chai-im meaning life
Alo-Khoom meaning ‘not dark’ or light
Now the scholars will mock this childish riddle stuff, because that’s all it is… besides conforming to the 32 rules of Rabbi Eliezer which was available in the first century. Some will even condemn it as Gnostic heresy or Cabbalistic heresy. It’s not. The rules are different. Every verse of the Old Testament contributes to such pictures of Christ.
Here is a dialog concerning the every issue:
Am I correct in assuming that G-d creates by expressing His will?
Yes, I guess you could say that. It is difficult for us to understand these concepts well enough to put them into the correct words.
dabar - meaning “to make” and “to speak” at the same time. It can be used in relation to any subject wherever it’s G-d or not. Is it true? If it’s so how come a man can “dabar” while anybody knows that people sometimes promise and never fulfill.
You are correct about “create - bara”. Only Hashem can create something from nothing. “Daber” is used regarding G-d and Man. I think the answer to your question is that we don’t fully appreciate the POWER of speach of of a person. A person’s word does do something and make a reality. It is the reality of the significance of what he spoke. This is difficult to explain, but take for example the seriousness of a person making a “neder” - a VOW. It does something; it makes a reality. It makes a prohibition on himself. Really. Then he has the mitzvah to fulfill that reality and the free-will to fulfill or not.
I hope this is clear. Perhaps you can discuss this with whomever you heard these ideas from. Or a local Rabbi. It sounds like you have a good teacher there.
As the rabbi says, the word bara is used only of God because only God can create out of nothing.
What’s really interesting is that using the rabbinic methods, John 1:1-4 can be derived from the first three words of Gen 1:1
Since the rabbi says ‘bara’ means ‘word’ : (remember Hebrew had no vowels, so ignore them.)
Gen 1:1 bereshit bara elohim beginning word God
bara is in the word bereshit… so in the beginning was the word
bara Elohim … the words are side by side… the word was with God
bara Elohim … since bara describes God, the word was God
bereshit bara Elohim … bar means son, so the beginning was the son of God (the alpha in the alpha and omega was the son of God)
Furthermore, Elohim has two puns.
L’chai-im meaning life
Alo-Khoom meaning ‘not dark’ or light
Now the scholars will mock this childish riddle stuff, because that’s all it is… besides conforming to the 32 rules of Rabbi Eliezer which was available in the first century. Some will even condemn it as Gnostic heresy or Cabbalistic heresy. It’s not. The rules are different. Every verse of the Old Testament contributes to such pictures of Christ.
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