Creation: myth?

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"Adam and Eve: Real People

“It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).”

Source: Catholic Answers

Ed
 
The doctrine of original sin, and the infallible teaching of the Council of Trent on the fall of Adam, require us to believe that Adam and Eve were two real persons. Otherwise, there would be no original sin. And if there is no original sin, then the dogma of the Immaculate Conception loses its meaning (that Mary was preserved from original sin).

I know some Catholics still try to claim that Adam and Eve, as two historical persons, is not a required belief, but there is just no way to deny their historicity without denying the dogmas of original sin and the Immaculate Conception.
 
The doctrine of original sin, and the infallible teaching of the Council of Trent on the fall of Adam, require us to believe that Adam and Eve were two real persons. Otherwise, there would be no original sin. And if there is no original sin, then the dogma of the Immaculate Conception loses its meaning (that Mary was preserved from original sin).

I know some Catholics still try to claim that Adam and Eve, as two historical persons, is not a required belief, but there is just no way to deny their historicity without denying the dogmas of original sin and the Immaculate Conception.
And the need for a Savior, Jesus Christ.

Ed
 
Agreed!

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich had visions of scenes from the Bible, and saw God create Adam and Eve, and saw Eve tempted by the serpent and eat the apple from the Tree of Knowledge.

Even in the New Testament letters Adam is mentioned and Eve is mentioned such as by St Paul himself in his own letters, which were written by himself, not passed down through tradition and written hundreds of years later. Paul wrote his own letters and these survived and are in the New Testament. He mentioned How through one man we all fell. And that Eve fell and tempted Adam to eat of the Tree of Knowledge.
I don’t happen to believe the writings of Anne Emmerich. She wrote that after Jesus was arrested the soldiers threw him off a bridge.
The Bible certainly does not mention an apple being eaten.
 
I am searching my memory. I cannot recall where or how St. John Paul II said: the creation accounts are myths. I am not sure if he said that.

But if he wrote that, does any one recall where, when and why?

Does the Catechism say that?

THANKS!
I don’t recall what JPII said about the literary character of the creation accounts, but here is something from Pope Benedict XVI:
"… the classic creation account [of Genesis 1] is not the only creation text of sacred Scripture … we can see how the Bible itself constantly readapts its images to a continually developing way of thinking, how it changes time and again in order to bear witness, time and again, to the one thing that has come to it, in truth, from God’s Word, which is the message of his creating act. In the Bible itself the images are free and they correct themselves ongoingly … they show, by means of a gradual and interactive process, that they are only images, which reveal something deeper and greater” (In the Beginning, Homily 1, pp. 14-15).
 
I don’t recall what JPII said about the literary character of the creation accounts, but here is something from Pope Benedict XVI:
"… the classic creation account [of Genesis 1] is not the only creation text of sacred Scripture … we can see how the Bible itself constantly readapts its images to a continually developing way of thinking, how it changes time and again in order to bear witness, time and again, to the one thing that has come to it, in truth, from God’s Word, which is the message of his creating act. In the Bible itself the images are free and they correct themselves ongoingly … they show, by means of a gradual and interactive process, that they are only images, which reveal something deeper and greater” (In the Beginning, Homily 1, pp. 14-15).
From the passage above which is in an amazing book that never denies the reality of Adam and Eve. Expanding on the reality cannot be considered a denial.
"to the one thing that has come to it, in truth, from God’s Word, which is the message of his creating act."

It is precisely the one thing in truth which is the base of Catholic doctrines such as those flowing from Genesis 1: 27.
Please note that there are many “one thing in truth” – many “something deeper and greater” 😃

Here is a rather interesting CCC paragraph which supports the foundation for the above reference to the book In the Beginning.

**CCC 388 **With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story’s ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to “convict the world concerning sin”,by revealing him who is its Redeemer.
 
cfauster

THANKS!!!

That was a quote I was hoping to find.

I read that book several times; I just could not recall it!

THANKS!
 
Thank you for prompting my search, which also led to finding something by JPII.

THE SECOND ACCOUNT OF CREATION: THE SUBJECTIVE DEFINITION OF MAN
Pope John Paul II is posted by EWTN at
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/jp2tb3.htm
Both the text and the notes below the text are excellent regarding JPII’s understanding of the proper sense of the word “myth” when it comes to the Bible. I can’t do it justice in any summary, but suffice it to say that when a scholar like JPII and those he cites refer to the mythical character of Genesis creation accounts, they are not dismissing those accunts as untrue or unimportant, nor are they equating them with fiction. Not at all.
 
I am the OP.

One of the reasons I am asking about this topic is I am wondering if these accounts could not come under inspired parables about the creation of the universe and man.

We cannot grasp the origins of either!

Therefore they must be communicated in parables or comparisons.

I am asking about the parables because of Eze. 17. 2; Eze. 21. 5; and Ez.20. 49; Hos. 12. 11.

They all say that the prophets, including Moses I would guess, speak in parable (mashal).
 
I think the creation narrative might share some qualities in common with parables, but not all.

Here’s something from a Catholic scholar. His orthodoxy has received mixed reviews elsewhere on this forum (generally speaking, orthodox when it comes to defending the historicity of the Gospels and Epistles in the New Testament, not so orthodox in his critique of JPII’s Theology of the Body).

Anyway, here it is, with a link below to the document for those interested.

"Each of the creation accounts in Genesis
has its own beauty and power. The first tells
us that God is not to be identified with the
world or with part of the world, but rather is
the Originator of all that exists; that God
brings everything into being by the power of
his word; that creation is therefore ordered
and declared good as God makes it. It imagines
humans as created in the image and
likeness of God, male and female equally
participating in that image, and equally
exercising dominion among other creatures.
It declares human sexuality good by making
the propagation of children the first divine
commandment. This vision of creation is
majestic, the unfolding of a cosmic drama,
with God orchestrating the entire process
through his command, his internal counsel
(“let us make man”) and his approving
comment.

The creation account in Genesis 2 has its
own distinctive vision, equally imaginative
and powerful. Here, God is much more
intimately involved with creation, forming
a human from the dust of the earth, placing
him in a garden to tend and preserve, parading
the animals before Adam to receive a
name and possibly find a mate for the man,
expressing empathy (“it is not good for man
to be alone”), shaping a partner for the male
from his rib. In this version, the narrator
focuses on the relationship between man
and woman (they cleave to each other) more
than their propagation of children; and
imposing limits to what they can eat that
introduces the possibility in the creature of
obedience or disobedience.

Taken together, both accounts of creation
have a wisdom that speaks inexhaustibly to
the human condition, not only as it was “in
the beginning” but above all as it continues
to be in every circumstance throughout time.
It is not at all strange that these accounts are
echoed in the paeans to personified wisdom
in Proverbs 8 and Sirach 24, for they have preoccupied
sages in the Jewish and Christian traditions for centuries,
constantly enriching those who invest their minds, and
especially their imaginations, in the study of these texts.

When these wonderful passages are isolated from the
other voices within Scripture and read in an inappropriately
literalistic fashion, the passages are deprived of their
power precisely to the degree that they are robbed of
their magic. The perils of reading the beginning of Genesis
as though it were a literal, historical description, are
illustrated by Saint Augustine, who tried three times to
interpret Genesis according to the letter, and never got
past the opening passages. Augustine kept getting stuck.
From our advantage, we can see that he lacked an understanding
of narrative truth that would enable him to
engage the metaphoric qualities of the accounts in their
own terms."

Excerpt from:
“Creation”, an essay by Luke Timothy Johnson, published March 2007 in Volume 59, Number 1, of Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith available at:
asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2007/PSCF3-07Johnson.pdf
 
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