Creation of a "virtual Francis"

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Yes, well, regardless of anything and everything else into the future, the virtual Francis is going to reign supreme for the culture now and into the future, as far as I can tell. Every public word Pope Francis utters going into the future will be completely judged through the lens of this recent interview and those statements he has given in this short period since the beginning of the Pontificate.

This is rather sad, actually, because when he does say something that cannot be misinterpreted, everyone will just nervously disregard it with a little curl of the lip and say, “Oh, yes, but remember that glorious interview? NARAL loved it!”

I can see the garden party pitter-patter…
 
YoungTradCath said:
Yes, well, regardless of anything and everything else into the future, the virtual Francis is going to reign supreme for the culture now and into the future, as far as I can tell. Every public word Pope Francis utters going into the future will be completely judged through the lens of this recent interview and those statements he has given in this short period since the beginning of the Pontificate.

This is rather sad, actually, because when he does say something that cannot be misinterpreted, everyone will just nervously disregard it with a little curl of the lip and say, “Oh, yes, but remember that glorious interview? NARAL loved it!”

I can see the garden party pitter-patter…
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Crucify him! Crucify him! :rolleyes:
 
Easy there… Deep breath…

Let off the gas… ease on the brake… clutch in… move the shifter from 5 to 4… breathe the engine and let out the clutch… back on the brakes… smoothly now… Repeat…

Roll gently to a stop…

youtube.com/watch?v=TvLzTD0akA8

-Tim-
 
The first five words of the article…

Pope Francis, formerly a Jesuit…

Has Pope Francis ceased to be a Jesuit?

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
The first five words of the article…
Pope Francis, formerly a Jesuit…
Has Pope Francis ceased to be a Jesuit?

-Tim-
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Was the good Fr. Z mistaken? When referring to the ordination of a religious priest to a bishop, the old cannon law required that a religious priest who to be ordained a bishop, his religious vows were dispensed and he was secularized. Apparently that old cannon law is no longer in effect.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4226595&postcount=2
 
TimothyH said:
The first five words of the article…

Pope Francis, formerly a Jesuit…

Has Pope Francis ceased to be a Jesuit?

-Tim-
Click to expand...
He is viewed as such, and most certainly considers himself to be so, but Canonically, he is not.

And that would have happened on his becoming a bishop. A Jesuit is bound by obedience to the Superior General, and to poverty. A bishop is subject only to the Pope, and by definition, owns the Church property of his diocese.

So upon accepting a call to the Episcopate, and with the consent of his superiors, he was Canonically released from his vows. He still, of course, retains the fraternal affiliation with his order, and the Ignatian spirituality,
 
Actually, let me set this straight. I think the mind of the Church on this subject is that a man continues to be a member of whatever religious community he is a member of when he is elevated to the episcopate, but he is dispensed from all obligations that may interfere in his new ministry. Logically, this extends to the Papacy.
 
Do you think that the pope is without blame if his words are so imprecise that a “virtual pope” can be created in the first place?
 
QNDNNDQDCE said:
Do you think that the pope is without blame if his words are so imprecise that a “virtual pope” can be created in the first place?
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I don’t think that his words are imprecise, especially when you go to the source and read everything in the context of which he said what he said.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Actually, let me set this straight. I think the mind of the Church on this subject is that a man continues to be a member of whatever religious community he is a member of when he is elevated to the episcopate, but he is dispensed from all obligations that may interfere in his new ministry. Logically, this extends to the Papacy.
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James Martin SJ explains it very well: americamagazine.org/content/all-things/pope-still-jesuit
…If the Jesuit accepts the invitation (and he almost always does out of a desire to help the universal church) the Jesuit is then formally “dispensed” from his vows of obedience and poverty. Obedience because he obviously is not taking orders from the Superior General any longer. Poverty because under canon law a bishop must own property. (There is a promise in the final vows that the Jesuit will be open to taking advice from the General, if he offers it.)
***But the man is still considered a Jesuit by tradition–if not canonically. I’ll leave it to the canonists to figure that one out: I’ve gotten multiple responses in response to that question. However, Canon 705 states: “A religious raised to the episcopate remains a member of his institute but is subject only to the Roman Pontiff by virtue of the vow of obedience and is not bound by obligations which he himself prudently judges cannot be reconciled with his condition.” ***
 
YoungTradCath said:
Yes, well, regardless of anything and everything else into the future, the virtual Francis is going to reign supreme for the culture now and into the future, as far as I can tell. Every public word Pope Francis utters going into the future will be completely judged through the lens of this recent interview and those statements he has given in this short period since the beginning of the Pontificate.

This is rather sad, actually, because when he does say something that cannot be misinterpreted, everyone will just nervously disregard it with a little curl of the lip and say, “Oh, yes, but remember that glorious interview? NARAL loved it!”

I can see the garden party pitter-patter…
Click to expand...
The media’s already successfully twisting the interview to a “gay-marriage friendly” lie.
(www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html?_r=1& )

I hate to say it, but His Holiness’ very lovable naïveté makes him all to easily misquoted and/or quoted without proper context.
 
Aramis said:
The media’s already successfully twisting the interview to a “gay-marriage friendly” lie.
(www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html?_r=1& )

I hate to say it, but His Holiness’ very lovable naïveté makes him all to easily misquoted and/or quoted without proper context.
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What pope hasn’t been misquoted among the secular press? One of the things that Fr. Z pointed out on his blog was the “Francis effect”.

"…Also, think about the “Francis effect” in the reporting of this interview.
For example, if Benedict XVI – talking in an interview about the need for a theology of women and a deeper discussion of the role of women in the Church – had said what Francis said, the headlines would have screamed “POPE DENIES EQUALITY TO WOMEN!”. On the other hand, Francis, in this interview, spoke with real disdain for “female machismo” as a solution to the question of women’s roles. When you read the paragraph on women and women’s roles in the Church you discover that Pope Francis is NOT a fan of radical feminism. Francis spoke about what Popes before him have called “feminine genius”. Nothing new. He said, “a woman has a different make-up than a man” and “we must not confuse the function with the dignity.” But since this is Francis being interviewed, and not Benedict or John Paul, journalists will go with something like, “POPE WANTS GREATER ROLES FOR WOMEN!”. You won’t read what the Pope really communicated: Yes, women must play an important role in the Church, but men’s roles and women’s roles are different, and that also means that women can’t be ordained."
 
Yep. There was the Virtual of every Pope since Pius IX, at least. Maybe not John Paul I, but that’s because he only lived 33 days.
 
Cojuanco said:
Yep. There was the Virtual of every Pope since Pius IX, at least. Maybe not John Paul I, but that’s because he only lived 33 days.
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So to speak. There has always been a spin on news, sometimes exaggerating, sometimes adding fiction and so on. I took “virtual Francis” to be in reference to cyber space, where news travels faster than snail mail. The first pope of the virtual conversations in cyber space was John Paul II.
 
zab said:
So to speak. There has always been a spin on news, sometimes exaggerating, sometimes adding fiction and so on. I took “virtual Francis” to be in reference to cyber space, where news travels faster than snail mail. The first pope of the virtual conversations in cyber space was John Paul II.
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Well, yes. Substitute it for “Pope of the Media” or “Council of the Media”.
 
Cojuanco said:
Yep. There was the Virtual of every Pope since Pius IX, at least. Maybe not John Paul I, but that’s because he only lived 33 days.
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Perhaps–I would not disagree–but I am not sure we have ever seen anything to this degree, for this long. It is not like a little blip here and here, it is more like a plateau on an EGK machine or something, quite uninterrupted.

At least when Paul VI promulgated Humanae vitae, the newspapers and most everybody else were openly against him, to a point of vitriolic hate. But now, even more insidious, the media latches on to the Popes words and turns them. AND, I must add, it’s not like it’s hard to do!
 
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