Creation, wanting answers from Catholics and NonCatholics

[CalCatholic]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church 283 states:

‘The questions about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers.’

 

[Jon_S_1]

Just under 6000 years old.

It is not, I believe the Bible over science. God can create the world in one second if He wants to.

It is not, I believe the Bible over science. God can create the world in one second if He wants to.

I cannot believe you are putting a time constraint on God!

Where is this evidence? Nowhere!

Read the Bible!

Ah yes the “God created it to look old” theory… It goes well with the “God created dinosaur fossils and buried them for us to find and enjoy theory”

God created the Earth with miraculous natural processes. It is so much grander than you allow for. So much more complex and miraculous to hold the old earth view.

No where in the Bible does it say anything close to the earth being 6000 years old.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Take every age in years mentioned and add them together until you get to the NT then add 2,000.

That of course does not prove anything remotely close to the earth being 6000 yrs old.

Further it would put the flood of Genesis around the time we have Chinese civilizations building great walls and giving us documented history while this flood was going on.

 

[Aloysium]

Alright. Ill cut to the cheese. How old is the Earth? Im Catholic, and Ive seen people of all denominations say the earth is 6017 years old, or 13 billion. What stance does the Church hold, if any? If the Church has no stance, what do you think, and why?

Since, these discussions usually raise a stink, I suppose your particular turn of phrase is more apt than the usual “cut to the chase”.

 

[JRKH]

Since, these discussions usually raise a stink, I suppose your particular turn of phrase is more apt than the usual “cut to the chase”.

Especially if it’s Limburger…

Yes - the fact that these DO tend to “raise a stink” is one reason why I kind of “cut to the chase” and ask - - “Who cares???”

Does the age of the earth may one iota of difference to how we follow Christ?

Peace
James

 

[Jon_S_1]

Especially if it’s Limburger…

Yes - the fact that these DO tend to “raise a stink” is one reason why I kind of “cut to the chase” and ask - - “Who cares???”

Does the age of the earth may one iota of difference to how we follow Christ?

Peace
James

If you take the stance that it could be either (and in fact could be very old), then it doesn’t matter. And it doesn’t keep us from following Christ.

It does however place a burden on the gospel of Christ and sharing the good news if you militantly hold that it must be a young earth. People get turned off from being Christian and it is an issue that should not cause people to walk away since it doesn’t really matter.

Fundamentalist believe it does matter because their theology depends on it.

 

[Theophorus]

Yet almost every civilisation pre-Christianity had a better and accurate idea about the nature of creation through science and mathematics. Take the Maya. When the Church came promising eternal life or damnation, they believed that Catholics had solved the mathematical and intellectually challenging conundrum of immortality, one of their holy grails. They also believed the Church had identified and proven other planes.

At the same time all their books packed with useful equations were destroyed or taken back to Rome. So the conquered natives lost hundreds of years of painstaking research and knowledge.

As for the stolen texts, if someone did solve a formula for, say, calculating the weather months ahead of time, it would never have been made public. That kind of knowledge is power and profit.

So it is no wonder the Church doesn’t have a view on the age of the universe. It could give the game away.

More advance cultures are generally better at spotting mistakes like that in more scientifically primitive cultures. If these pre-Christian culture were so much more scientifically and mathematically advanced than the Church/Catholic peoples, how come they couldn’t see that Catholics hadn’t solved the mathematical and intellectually challenging conundrum of immortality, or that the Church hadn’t identified and proven other planes?

 

[JRKH]

If you take the stance that it could be either (and in fact could be very old), then it doesn’t matter. And it doesn’t keep us from following Christ.

It does however place a burden on the gospel of Christ and sharing the good news if you militantly hold that it must be a young earth. People get turned off from being Christian and it is an issue that should not cause people to walk away since it doesn’t really matter.

Precisely. It is the “militant” aspect of holding one view or the other (but more especially YE) that gets in the way.

Fundamentalist believe it does matter because their theology depends on it.

Yes - I’m glad our theology does not.

Peace
James

 

[isaacalsop]

Just under 6000 years old.

It is not, I believe the Bible over science. God can create the world in one second if He wants to.

It is not, I believe the Bible over science. God can create the world in one second if He wants to.

I cannot believe you are putting a time constraint on God!

Where is this evidence? Nowhere!

Read the Bible!

This is the conclusion Im coming too…and Im happy to see a Catholic stand with me on this.

 

[isaacalsop]

Especially if it’s Limburger…

Yes - the fact that these DO tend to “raise a stink” is one reason why I kind of “cut to the chase” and ask - - “Who cares???”

Does the age of the earth may one iota of difference to how we follow Christ?

Peace
James

Not really but its very interesting and good to think about. As long as we agree God created it.

 

[Jon_S_1]

This is the conclusion Im coming too…and Im happy to see a Catholic stand with me on this.

Can you tell us what happened to the dinosaurs then? Why not one Biblical story describing the T Rex destroying the human encampments? Why not one archaeological dig showing humans and dinosaur remains together?

How does something like the Grand Canyon get carved in 6,000 years?

How is it we can know that stars are 10 billion light years away and we see the light today, that light left that star 10 billion years ago?

We could go on and on and on.

 

[isaacalsop]

Ok so If the Earth is millions of years old…then the natural process of evolution is true. Now that means the dinosaurs and millions of other species were dead and rotting in the dirt when Adam and Eve were created. If this was the case, why would God say, “it is good”? things couldn’t die until AFTER sin entered the world. That refutes the natural process of evolution that was supposedly going on for millions of years before the first humans. What do you think? ALSO you say adding up the numers in the OT is wrong. How is it wrong? Would it have errors? I dont think so…it is the infallible Word of God, so why not add the numbers?

 

[marywarfield]

Especially if it’s Limburger…

Yes - the fact that these DO tend to “raise a stink” is one reason why I kind of “cut to the chase” and ask - - “Who cares???”

Does the age of the earth may one iota of difference to how we follow Christ?

Peace
James

Totally. I’m good with anyway God wants to do it.
Lol!

 

[isaacalsop]

Can you tell us what happened to the dinosaurs then? Why not one Biblical story describing the T Rex destroying the human encampments? Why not one archaeological dig showing humans and dinosaur remains together?

How does something like the Grand Canyon get carved in 6,000 years?

How is it we can know that stars are 10 billion light years away and we see the light today, that light left that star 10 billion years ago?

We could go on and on and on.

Im not sure. Im drawn to the 6000 yr theory but I just started researching the two theories last night. Im trying to find the right one. Can I ask you a question? If the dinosaurs were all dead after a mass extinction and mammals could then evolve into humans, why does god say it is good? how are hundreds of thousands of extinctions good?

 

[isaacalsop]

Totally. I’m good with anyway God wants to do it.
Lol!

Amen…but I am that one guy who always wants to know everything. And I love science. So Im trying to find the correct theory.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Ok so If the Earth is millions of years old…then the natural process of evolution is true. Now that means the dinosaurs and millions of other species were dead and rotting in the dirt when Adam and Eve were created. If this was the case, why would God say, “it is good”? things couldn’t die until AFTER sin entered the world. That refutes the natural process of evolution that was supposedly going on for millions of years before the first humans. What do you think? ALSO you say adding up the numers in the OT is wrong. How is it wrong? Would it have errors? I dont think so…it is the infallible Word of God, so why not add the numbers?

The numbers and genealogies are likely not complete when it comes to pre Noah. We don’t know that all generations are accounted for, or that the end if the Biblical Author’s timeline is truly Adam, or what he best thought was Adam. Remember it was written by men thousands of years later. It can be accurate and true.
with out being complete.

The issue of sin and death entering the world has to do with humanity not animals and plants.

The planet cannot function without death, it is part of Gods process. Part of what is good. If spiders did not eat flies the earth would be overrun by insects. The circle of life /food chain is essential.

In Eden God made man special (I believe hominids evolved and once ready for Gods “breath of life” they went from soulless animals to unique creations). Once God gave men their souls ( Adam and Eve) it made them unique creations similar to how we will be with our glorified bodies one day (although not identical). Once man sinned, God numbered men’s days.

A lot can be said by this, but one needs to be careful not to read into the text of Genesis. There are just a couple dozens sentences that cannot possibly describe all the intricacies of creation. Instead it outlines principles and ideas. We can then use the skills God gave us to search for and fill in the gaps and details with science.

 

[isaacalsop]

Interesting. So humans were the only immortal things on Earth?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Interesting. So humans were the only immortal things on Earth?

Absolutely…sadly it was short lived…although we really don’t know how long Adam and Eve lived in Eden, it could have been a very long time. But likely , since their ages are given in the Bible, they lived a relatively short time in Eden.

 

[marywarfield]

D

Amen…but I am that one guy who always wants to know everything. And I love science. So Im trying to find the correct theory.

Go for it. Years ago I took a microbiology course
and was taking a picture of frog DNA strands with
an electron microscope. Still have that picture framed
in my living room. I fell in love with God all over again
when the pic came out of the developer. What
a genius!

 

[isaacalsop]

D

Go for it. Years ago I took a microbiology course
and was taking a picture of frog DNA strands with
an electron microscope. Still have that picture framed
in my living room. I fell in love with God all over again
when the pic came out of the developer. What
a genius!