Creation

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Amy_1610

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Okay, this is the bit of the bible that i’m struggling with BIG STYLE. I understand what the bible says about creation but ive just left complusary education and have been taught for the last 12 years that the world was created in the big bang, and because of that I’m struggling with the bible version of creation. But i’m not sure bout the big bang version either - whenever I’ve asked other questions like, “If the big bang created the universe and everything in it (like we’ve been taught) then where did the matter that caused the big bang come from?”, and “If the universe is expanding because of the big bang, yet the big bang made everything, then what are we expanding into?” no one seems to have an answer, and I can see evidence to support both theories. So, I guess what I’d like to hear from you guys is why and how you have decided on one of the two theories. I’m very grateful 😃
 
I think one thing to consider is that the big bang theory is just that, a theory. A virtually unprovable theory at that (right now anyway). Science can point to so many things that “show evidence” of the big bang, but in the end, our ridiculously limited view of the universe will come into play.

Another thing to think about is that the big bang, assuming it WERE true, would be the means that justified the end of creation. There is nothing saying that they are mutually exclusive. It is possible that the big bang is part of the biblical creation. The Bible is a book on faith and morals, not astrophysics.

God Bless.
 
I think one thing to consider is that the big bang theory is just that, a theory. A virtually unprovable theory at that (right now anyway).
this is quite an overstatement. We have verified much of what the Big Bang Model predicts we should be able to observe. Not irrebuttable, perhaps, but quite persuasive.

I would recommend Cardinal Schonborn’s “Chance or Purpose”. Very accessible and very enlightening.

I would also recommend reading Origen and Augustine on the meaning of the Creation narratives, particularly how a literal-ist reading does not survive the first two chapters (let alone the tenuous genealogical algorithm used by Ussher to arrive at ~6,000 years).
 
Dear Amy, its really very simple. Astronomers look at the universe and they see evidence (from redshifts, etc.) that the universe is expanding and has expanded in the past. This does not surprise us because God told us thousands of years ago that He “stretched out the heavens” (Jeremiah 51:15), and still “stretches out the heavens” (Isaiah 40:22). But mainstream science denies the work of God, and so they have to posit that this expansion must have gone all the way back to a point in time and space when the universe was just a point - a singularity. And this leads to the absurd conclusion that, in a universe where “everything tends toward disorder”, this magnificent and orderly universe is the natural result of an explosion! - an explosion of unimaginable chaos. Have you ever seen an explosion create order? This is one of the (many) reasons why Dr. Duane Gish likes to say: “Its unbelievable what unbelievers have to believe to be unbelievers.” 😛

But God told us the truth. Let the world of unbelievers chase their tales (pun intended :D), love delusions and seek after false gods. We can know the truth because we have the Word of the only One who was there - God! God bless.
 
I would also recommend reading Origen and Augustine on the meaning of the Creation narratives, particularly how a literal-ist reading does not survive the first two chapters (let alone the tenuous genealogical algorithm used by Ussher to arrive at ~6,000 years).
Okay…

St. Augustine: “Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. For some hold the same opinion regarding men that they hold regarding the world itself, that they have always been… But they say what they think, not what they know. They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed.” (The City of God, 12, 10)

Origen: “After these statements, Celsus, from a secret desire to cast discredit upon the Mosaic account of the creation, which teaches that the world is not yet ten thousand years old, but very much under that…” (Against Celsus, 1, 19)
 
Okay…

St. Augustine: “Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. For some hold the same opinion regarding men that they hold regarding the world itself, that they have always been… But they say what they think, not what they know. They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed.” (The City of God, 12, 10)

Origen: “After these statements, Celsus, from a secret desire to cast discredit upon the Mosaic account of the creation, which teaches that the world is not yet ten thousand years old, but very much under that…” (Against Celsus, 1, 19)
i was referring particularly to the creation accounts of Gen 1 & 2

later in Contra Celsus: “And with regard to the creation of the light upon the first day, and of the firmament upon the second, and of the gathering together of the waters that are under the heaven into their several reservoirs on the third (the earth thus causing to sprout forth those (fruits) which are under the control of nature alone, and of the (great) lights and stars upon the fourth, and of aquatic animals upon the fifth, and of land animals and man upon the sixth, we have treated to the best of our ability in our notes upon Genesis, as well as in the foregoing pages, when we found fault with those who, taking the words in their apparent signification, said that the time of six days was occupied in the creation of the world.”

also from Origen: “For who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indi*cate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally.”

Augustine likewise argued against (and for, though much less persuasively) a literalist interpretation of the Creation accounts. I offer these statements only to show (1) A literal, face-value reading of the Genesis text demands neither a young earth, nor an old earth conclusion (2) A literal, face-value reading of the Genesis Creation accounts text provides extremely little support of a 144 hour creation (3) An allegorical reading of Genesis is as old as the Christian Church, and enjoyed wide subscription.

Additionally, Robert Sungenis has demonstrated the untenability of Ussher’s 6,000 genealogy (you can google his name/Ussher/etc. to find the article). Sungenis himself argues for a 10,000 year old earth, which i disagree with, but he aptly demonstrates some of the defects in literalist exegesis.

Finally, with respect to your vague reference to the second law of thermodynamics, that rule applies only to closed thermodynamic systems in equilibrium. The earth, and all its living organisms, is not a closed thermodynamic system in equilibrium. It receives a constant (name removed by moderator)ut of high-intensity energy from the sun. Thus, even as the universe itself tends towards entropy, it is possible for parts of the universe to tend towards greater order and complexity. Therefore, current models of evolution do NOT violate the laws of thermodynamics. I highly recommend that if you engage non-literalists in discussion regarding evolution, you abandon this line of argument.
 
A literal view of Genesis 1-3 is not impossible, in fact it is not hard to come by, and should be seeked as the primary sense. But just like anything else in Scripture, metaphors and symbolic language exist and should be taken in consideration. I enjoy the allegorical approach to Gen. 1-3, but it needs to be drawn from the literal sense and not be taken as the primary sense. But the challenge then comes down to what is being spoken in metaphoric and symbolic language. The literal sense is quite broad and can be understood in a number of different ways.
 
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