Creationism v. Intelligent Design v. Evolution

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Please, only vote if you’re Catholic.

I’m just trying to attain a statistic. Please be honest.
 
Glad I read the first post before voting. However, I was under the impression that the Catholic Church accepted evolution, but as a manifestation of God’s creative process. Even my older brother, who is a very devout Catholic, accepts evolution on the above terms, and when we were children, was as much of a dinosaur nerd as I was (and still am 🙂 )
 
sea_krait said:
Please, only vote if you’re Catholic.

I’m just trying to attain a statistic. Please be honest.
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Creationism is to me an extreme position manifested out fear, doubt and ignorance. There is no evidence to suggest that genesis is anything more than an allegory, a story used as a tool to express certain truths of the faith; such as the belief in original sin, God as the creator, and the importance of the sabbath. The story itself is evidently fictional, and is written like a folk tale. There is evidence to suggest that the authors borrowed myths from other cultures in order to convert those popular stories in to a device that would allow them to express their own beliefs in place of what they believed to be a false religion. In fact some have suggested this was a method of apologetics or polemic against an opposing faith. Bottom line, these fictional tales are used as a means to express those general facts of the faith as i have just mentioned. There is no reason to think that the original authors intended the stories to be a “divine revelation” of “how” God created the universe; although it is an expression of the revelatory belief in original sin, the sabbath, and that God did create the universe. I think it is dishonest for any mature person to promote the view that genesis is absolutely historical.

Intelligent design is also a reactionary position born out of the mistaken belief that the theory of evolution provides evidence against the idea that our universe as a whole exists to fulfill some kind of a purpose. But what it really proves is that science as a method cannot prove or disprove the existence of purpose in the universe. This says nothing about whether or not we can prove the existence of purpose through some other method of knowledge. ID shoots itself in the foot by promoting the mistaken belief that science by itself provides the highest and most trustworthy form of knowledge.

Evolution is a theory of species, it tells us nothing about why the “potentiality” of DNA exists and why it produces the meaningful holistic and teleological realities we see around us including ourselves. Science only tells us that DNA does exists and that under certain conditions it produces this or that thing. This is all it can say.
 
All Catholics are creationists.

**
IDvolution** - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.

This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
 
I believe it is a false trilemma because God designed and **created **the laws of nature without which life would not have evolved… 🙂
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Creationism is to me an extreme position manifested out fear, doubt and ignorance. There is no evidence to suggest that genesis is anything more than an allegory, a story used as a tool to express certain truths of the faith; such as the belief in original sin, God as the creator, and the importance of the sabbath. The story itself is evidently fictional, and is written like a folk tale. There is evidence to suggest that the authors borrowed myths from other cultures in order to convert those popular stories in to a device that would allow them to express their own beliefs in place of what they believed to be a false religion. In fact some have suggested this was a method of apologetics or polemic against an opposing faith. Bottom line, these fictional tales are used as a means to express those general facts of the faith as i have just mentioned. There is no reason to think that the original authors intended the stories to be a “divine revelation” of “how” God created the universe; although it is an expression of the revelatory belief in original sin, the sabbath, and that God did create the universe. I think it is dishonest for any mature person to promote the view that genesis is absolutely historical.

Intelligent design is also a reactionary position born out of the mistaken belief that the theory of evolution provides evidence against the idea that our universe as a whole exists to fulfill some kind of a purpose. But what it really proves is that science as a method cannot prove or disprove the existence of purpose in the universe. This says nothing about whether or not we can prove the existence of purpose through some other method of knowledge. ID shoots itself in the foot by promoting the mistaken belief that science by itself provides the highest and most trustworthy form of knowledge.

Evolution is a theory of species, it tells us nothing about why the “potentiality” of DNA exists and why it produces the meaningful holistic and teleological realities we see around us including ourselves. Science only tells us that DNA does exists and that under certain conditions it produces this or that thing. This is all it can say.
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“Genesis does not contain purified myths.” Pontifical Biblical Commission, 1909

From the Catholic Answers library:

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
“Genesis does not contain purified myths.” Pontifical Biblical Commission, 1909
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That depends on the context and what is meant by a purified myth. If you mean that the teachings about Adam and eve, original sin, and creation exnihilo are not borrowed from other religions and stand as historical truths, then i would agree with that. But I see no ex-cathedra teaching rejecting the idea that the authors could have loosely based their stories or ideas upon the writings of others religions in effect converting those stories into devices through they could teach about original sin, the Sabbath, among other things.
edwest2 said:
From the Catholic Answers library:

"Adam and Eve: Real People
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Its a shame you don’t take the time to read what I write properly. You would have realised that I make no denial of this belief.
 
My perception is close to Birdpreacher’s.

I view the process described as evolution to be one of God’s tools in accomplishing His Creation.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Why? Why not 7 day creationism?
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Hi, MindOverMatter,

I view the seven days of creation as falling in the time frame provided by paleontologists.

Gen 1, 1: “In the beginning God…”
Before space and time, before anything.

“…created…”
Whether with a big bang or with His spoken Word.

“…heaven…”
All the galaxies, comets, planetoids stars and planets.

“…and earth…”
created with the other planets.

And so forth. So, in my understanding the first verse of the first chapter of Genesis encompasses before time and space and then several billion years.
Verse 2 also encompasses several billion years. “And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.”

And, each proceed verse encompasses billions to millions of years, until Gen 1, 26, when God creates us. After that, verses can encompass millions to thousands of years, until after the exile of Adam and Eve. I submit that no accurate count of days can be accomplished until after the exile of Adam and Eve, because time in the Garden of Eden was not mentioned until the day Adam and Eve disobeyed God. At that moment, time as we know it began and Adam and Eve began to age unto death. With their exile, we can start a count of human years, as mentioned later throughout Genesis.

That’s how I view that process which is described as evolution in the Holy Scriptures.

God loves you,
Don
 
honestquestions said:
Because the evidence contradicts that all animals spontaneously popped into existence at the same time.
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Hi, honestquestions,

The Cambrian Explosion was an abundance of life appearing out of nowhere. I submit that when planetary cataclysms are factored in, that human life appeared more quickly than Darwinism and its derivatives allows.

God loves you,
Don
 
donsnow said:
Hi, honestquestions,

The Cambrian Explosion was an abundance of life appearing out of nowhere. I submit that when planetary cataclysms are factored in, that human life appeared more quickly than Darwinism and its derivatives allows.

God loves you,
Don
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You are right but discussion of evolution is banned…:hey_bud:
 
nicragland said:
1 for evolution here. Also, check out these articles if you have not already:
Evolution and the Magisterium
Creation and Genesis
Adam, Eve, and Evolution
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As for monogenism (an Adam from which all humans descended) vs. polygenism the position of the Church unequivocally goes for monogenism (see your link to the article “Adam, Eve and evolution”). Or does it?

Here is paragraph 70 of “Communion and Stewardship” (emphasis added):

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040723_communion-stewardship_en.html
  1. With respect to the immediate creation of the human soul, Catholic theology affirms that particular actions of God bring about effects that transcend the capacity of created causes acting according to their natures. The appeal to divine causality to account for genuinely causal as distinct from merely explanatory gaps does not insert divine agency to fill in the “gaps” in human scientific understanding (thus giving rise to the so-called "God of the gaps”). The structures of the world can be seen as open to non-disruptive divine action in directly causing events in the world. Catholic theology affirms that the emergence of the first members of the human species (whether as individuals or in populations) represents an event that is not susceptible of a purely natural explanation and which can appropriately be attributed to divine intervention. Acting indirectly through causal chains operating from the beginning of cosmic history, God prepared the way for what Pope John Paul II has called “an ontological leap…the moment of transition to the spiritual.” While science can study these causal chains, it falls to theology to locate this account of the special creation of the human soul within the overarching plan of the triune God to share the communion of trinitarian life with human persons who are created out of nothing in the image and likeness of God, and who, in his name and according to his plan, exercise a creative stewardship and sovereignty over the physical universe.
 
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