Cremation

[aliciar]

I was readying an answer on another thread and it said that the Church approves cremation but on sacred grounds. what does that mean? See my maternal grandfather was cremated and his ashes were thrown on a piece of land he loved so much. I didn’t go to the funeral because he lived in Mexico. But my mother told me about it. Is he in Heaven because he chose that?

 

[ElizabethPH]

If you are Catholic you must be buried. The Church allows cremation, but you cannot sprinkle the cremains but you must bury them. You bury them in the ground that has been blessed by a priest.

 

[Lancer]

Cremation rules and burial of ashes/remains have changed…somewhat (note the highlighted “red” portion…on what has not changed…and never will).

This first excerpt is from Times Online-UK…reporting (Jan 2008) on a Vatican ruling regarding a funeral in Aosta, Italy (north-northwest border with France…located in the Italian (side) Alps Mountain range.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3168478.ece?print=yes&randnum=1251506758294
**Believers who choose to have their ashes scattered after being cremated are entitled to a Christian funeral, the Vatican said yesterday. ** The ruling follows the refusal of a parish priest in the Italian Alps to hold a funeral for a local man who had asked to have his remains spread in the mountains. Father Carmelo Pellicone, of the parish of St Etienne in Aosta, told the man’s widow that a religious funeral was impossible because it was against the dogma of the resurrection of the body.
He said that scattering ashes in the countryside or at sea was a “pantheistic communion with nature in death, which is not part of our religion” – a belief held by many priests. Bishop Luciano Pacomio, head of doctrine at the Italian Bishops Conference, said, however, that this reflected an out-of-date mentality.

“[The Diocese of Aosta said]…Church** funerals will be celebrated** for all the faithful, including those who have chosen the scattering of their ashes, as long as the choice was not made for reasons contrary to the Christian faith.” Catholic funerals should still be denied to those motivated by “a pantheistic or naturalistic mentality”.

This second excerpt comes from the USCCB…after JFK, Jr. and his wife had a funeral Mass and then had their ashes scattered in the Atlantic Ocean from a US Navy ship.

usccb.org/liturgy/cremation.shtml
Thus,** while “cremation is now permitted,** it does not enjoy the same value as burial of the body…The** Church clearly prefers and urges that the body of the deceased be present for the funeral rites,** since the presence of the human body better expresses the values which the Church affirms in its rites.” (OCF 413) However,** “when extraordinary circumstances make the cremation of a body the only feasible choice, pastoral sensitivity must be exercised by all who minister to the family of the deceased.”** (OCF 414)
The rites for burial of the cremated remains of a body may be found in the appendix to the Order of Christian Funerals. This appendix **recommends that when cremation is chosen, the body be cremated after the Funeral, thus allowing for the presence of the body at the Funeral Mass. When pastoral circumstances require it, however, cremation and committal may take place even before the Funeral liturgy. **
Any catechesis on the subject of cremation should emphasize that “the cremated remains of a body should be treated with the same respect given to the corporeal remains of a human body. This includes the use of a worthy vessel to contain the ashes, the manner in which they are carried, the care and attention to appropriate placement and transport, and the final disposition.” (OCF 416)
While **cremated remains may be buried in a grave, entombed in a mausoleum or columbarium or even buried at sea, “the practice of scattering cremated remains on the sea, from the air, or on the ground, or keeping cremated remains in the home of a relative or friend of the deceased are not the reverent disposition that the Church requires.” **(OCF 416) The cremated remains of the body may be properly buried at sea in the urn, coffin or other container in which they have been carried to the place of committal. When a body, or the cremated remains of a body are buried at sea, the Committal prayer found at number 406 § 4 is used:
Lord God,
by the power of your Word
you stilled the chaos of the primeval seas,
you made the raging waters of the Flood subside,
and calmed the storm on the sea of Galilee.
As we commit the body (earthly remains)

of our brother (sister) N. to the deep,
grant him/her peace and tranquility
until that day when he/she
and all who believe in you
will be raised to the glory of new life
promised in the waters of baptism. We ask this through Christ our Lord.
R. Amen.
-excerpted from the Newsletter of the NCCB Committee on the Liturgy (July, 1999)

So my take is that:-if a Catholic wants to be cremated…it is okay, but not as “good” as having the body buried.

-before the body is cremated…the funeral/funeral Mass should take place with the body in tact…then cremated after…but if the cremated remains are all that is available, the funereal Mass will still be celebrated…but this is not a desirable sequence.

-the ashes/cremated remains should be interred in a proper burial site…not scattered, but if they are going to be scattered…the funeral liturgy is still okay…as long as the scattering is not done for any reason against the Catholic faith or pantheistic or naturalism reasons.

Pantheistic…broadly defined it is the view that (1) “God is everything and everything is God … the world is either identical with God or in some way a self-expression of his nature”
​

Naturalism…it is the denial of the existence of supernatural causes. In rejecting the reality of supernatural events, forces, or entities, naturalism is the antithesis of super naturalism.

So if a Catholic says they are going to be cremated and then have their ashes scattered…somewhere…my response is not: you can’t do that!…but rather as the question* why are you cremating and scattering the ashes*?

In today’s Catholic catechesis world…most Catholics probably don’t know much about…or hardly ever focus…on how the Church teaches that the body as a temple of the Holy Spirit…and shares in the dignity of God as the body is created in his image and likeness.

Pax Christi

 

[ElizabethPH]

**While cremated remains may be buried in a grave, entombed in a mausoleum or columbarium or even buried at sea, “the practice of scattering cremated remains on the sea, from the air, or on the ground, or keeping cremated remains in the home of a relative or friend of the deceased are not the reverent disposition that the Church requires.” **

Where does it say that you can scatter cremains? It says it is NOT the reverent disposition the Church requires.

As far as the diocese of Aosta that’s them. I’ve never heard anywhere in the US anyway where scattering is accepted if you are Catholic.

 

[Seatuck]

his second excerpt comes from the USCCB…after JFK, Jr. and his wife had a funeral Mass and then had their ashes scattered in the Atlantic Ocean from a US Navy ship.

JFK Jr and Wife were not scattered in the Atlantic Ocean but interred properly from what I recall.

 

[puzzleannie]

I was readying an answer on another thread and it said that the Church approves cremation but on sacred grounds. what does that mean? See my maternal grandfather was cremated and his ashes were thrown on a piece of land he loved so much. I didn’t go to the funeral because he lived in Mexico. But my mother told me about it. Is he in Heaven because he chose that?

please read that article again or provide a link, because you may have misunderstood. The Church allows (does not approve) cremation, although conventional burial is still preferred unless there is a very good reason why cremation is necessary. The ashes must be treated with the same respect as a body, interred in a suitable place in a suitable container. Under no circumstances may they be scattered, and local civil laws must also be observed. Even a burial of ashes at sea has rules, and scattering is not part of it, the container should be lowered into the sea from the ship at a location far enough out that it will not be disturbed.

The ashes could have been buried on that land (assuming local law permitted it) but in a place where they would not be disturbed by animals, farming activity etc.

how the family disposes of a person’s remains or how they plan the funeral and what happens after death has absolutely Nothing to do with whether or not that person goes to heaven. That person comes face to face with God at the moment of death and is judged on his own life, not on what others do. The prayers for the dead are efficacious in freeing the soul from purgatory but how the person is buried is irrelevant except insofar as it shows the family’s acceptance of Catholic teaching on the diginity of the body.

 

[Lorrie]

please read that article again or provide a link, because you may have misunderstood. The Church allows (does not approve) cremation, although conventional burial is still preferred unless there is a very good reason why cremation is necessary.

The Church “allowing” cremation is good enough for me!

Me not wanting to be buried is a “very good reason” for cremation. Thank God we have a choice.

 

[Linna]

When a person dies his/her body returns to dust and is not resurrected in the flesh. Our soul returns to the father who gave it and our bodies are transformed to spirit bodies as Jesus had when he returned after his resurrection. Whether one is buried or cremated is not important since the flesh body is not resurrected at any time.

 

[Corki]

**While cremated remains may be buried in a grave, entombed in a mausoleum or columbarium or even buried at sea, “the practice of scattering cremated remains on the sea, from the air, or on the ground, or keeping cremated remains in the home of a relative or friend of the deceased are not the reverent disposition that the Church requires.” **

Where does it say that you can scatter cremains? It says it is NOT the reverent disposition the Church requires.

As far as the diocese of Aosta that’s them. I’ve never heard anywhere in the US anyway where scattering is accepted if you are Catholic.

I think the rule is still “Thou shalt not scatter” but it seems that intent to scatter is not to be used as a reason to deny a Catholic funeral.

 

[Corki]

When a person dies his/her body returns to dust and is not resurrected in the flesh. Our soul returns to the father who gave it and our bodies are transformed to spirit bodies as Jesus had when he returned after his resurrection. Whether one is buried or cremated is not important since the flesh body is not resurrected at any time.

That’s not quite what the Church teaches.

CCC 1016 By death the soul is separated from the body, but in the resurrection God will give incorruptible life to our body, transformed by reunion with our soul. Just as Christ is risen and lives for ever, so all of us will rise at the last day.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Cremation rules and burial of ashes/remains have changed…somewhat (note the highlighted “red” portion…on what has not changed…and never will).

This first excerpt is from Times Online-UK…reporting (Jan 2008) on a Vatican ruling regarding a funeral in Aosta, Italy (north-northwest border with France…located in the Italian (side) Alps Mountain range.
This second excerpt comes from the USCCB…after JFK, Jr. and his wife had a funeral Mass and then had their ashes scattered in the Atlantic Ocean from a US Navy ship.

So my take is that:
-if a Catholic wants to be cremated…it is okay, but not as “good” as having the body buried.

-before the body is cremated…the funeral/funeral Mass should take place with the body in tact…then cremated after…but if the cremated remains are all that is available, the funereal Mass will still be celebrated…but this is not a desirable sequence.

-the ashes/cremated remains should be interred in a proper burial site…not scattered, but if they are going to be scattered…the funeral liturgy is still okay…as long as the scattering is not done for any reason against the Catholic faith or pantheistic or naturalism reasons.

So if a Catholic says they are going to be cremated and then have their ashes scattered…somewhere…my response is not: you can’t do that!…but rather as the question* why are you cremating and scattering the ashes*?

In today’s Catholic catechesis world…most Catholics probably don’t know much about…or hardly ever focus…on how the Church teaches that the body as a temple of the Holy Spirit…and shares in the dignity of God as the body is created in his image and likeness.

Pax Christi

The scattering of ashes would be permitted after a funeral liturgy IN THE DIOCESE of AOSTA. The ruling from that Bishop only applies in his diocese.

 

[bwd]

When a person dies his/her body returns to dust and is not resurrected in the flesh. Our soul returns to the father who gave it and our bodies are transformed to spirit bodies as Jesus had when he returned after his resurrection. Whether one is buried or cremated is not important since the flesh body is not resurrected at any time.

Linna, I must caution you. This statement is heresy. I’m certainly not calling you a heretic, I just want to point out this is far from orthodox Christian belief. In the Creeds we profess a believe in the “resurrection of the body”. The Church has always taught that, after Christ’s return, one day, we will receive perfected, incorruptible PHYSICAL bodies. This is found in Sacred Scripture, as well as throughout or theological history.

 

[Conspiracy329]

What happened to ashes to ashes, dust to dust? It seems like such a waste of land to bury the dead. The body is nothing more than a host to the soul, in death, it is nothing!

 

[Linna]

Incorruptible means NOT Flesh. Our flesh bodies will not be restored. We will go from corruptible to incorruptible. Read the New Testament. Why would anyone desire a flesh body anyway? Unfortunately, this is just another issue the Chruch has no evidence for.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Incorruptible means NOT Flesh. Our flesh bodies will not be restored. We will go from corruptible to incorruptible. Read the New Testament. Why would anyone desire a flesh body anyway? Unfortunately, this is just another issue the Chruch has no evidence for.

"The Bible tells us that when Jesus returns to earth, he will physically raise all those who have died, giving them back the bodies they lost at death.

These will be the same bodies people had in earthly life—but our resurrection bodies will not die and, for the righteous, they will be transformed into a glorified state, freed from suffering and pain, and enabled to do many of the amazing things Jesus could do with his glorified body (cf. 1 Cor. 15:35–44, 1 John 3:2).

The resurrection of the body is an essential Christian doctrine, as the apostle Paul declares: “*f the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished” (1 Cor. 15:13–18).

Because, as Paul tells us, the Christian faith cannot exist without this doctrine, it has been infallibly defined by the Church. It is included in the three infallible professions of faith—the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed—and has been solemnly, infallibly taught by ecumenical councils.

The Fourth Lateran Council (1215), infallibly defined that at the second coming Jesus “will judge the living and the dead, to render to every person according to his works, both to the reprobate and to the elect. All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad [Rom. 2:6–11]” (constitution 1).

Most recently, the Catechism of the Catholic Church reiterated this long-defined teaching, stating, “‘We believe in the true resurrection of this flesh that we now possess’ (Council of Lyons II). We sow a corruptible body in the tomb, but he raises up an incorruptible body, a ‘spiritual body’ (cf. 1 Cor 15:42–44)” (CCC 1017).

As the following quotes from the Church Fathers show, this has been the historic teaching of the Christian faith on the matter since the very beginning."

from CA*

 

[jaf46]

The statement that cremation isn’t considered “as good” as burial leaves me confused. It isn’t as good for who or what? Maybe I’m slow but it just doesn’t tell me anything.

In my eyes, cremation shows much greater respect for the body, even if the ashes are scattered, than the horrendous practices used to preserve the deceased for viewing at a wake.

When our son died, we had him cremated. We couldn’t stand the idea of seeing him in a coffin or placing his body in the ground to be devoured by insects. It took us one year to get his cremated remains back home (1200miles away) for interment in a Catholic cemetery. Throughout that year he remained in an honored position in our home, surrounded by beloved mementos. It was very comforting.

You can judge us if you must but, I believe that God understood our hearts and blessed our loving actions.

 

[Linna]

I’m not really concerned about Catechism and Catholic councils or decrees. Where in the Bible does it specifically say the flesh body will be resurrected?

 

[Corki]

I’m not really concerned about Catechism and Catholic councils or decrees. Where in the Bible does it specifically say the flesh body will be resurrected?

Try post #15.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions. You state your religion as Catholic. As you know, the Catholic Church is not a sola scriptura Church so the Cathecism is an important source to support doctrine. The Apostles Creed, a big “T” traditional posit of the Faith states “I believe in … the Resurrection of the Body and life everlasting”. For almost 2000 years that has meant body reunited with soul at the end of the world.

 

[Lorrie]

We couldn’t stand the idea of seeing him in a coffin or placing his body in the ground to be devoured by insects.

This is my thinking when it comes to wanting to be cremated. I recently read the book “Stiff” by Mary Roach, she clearly states each step of the decomposition process and it’s eye-opening to say the least. Insects don’t usually come from the outside into the coffin - our bacteria actually turns on itself and morphs into insects. One can go here (scroll down to human decomposition) to read what the process is actually like - if you have the stomach for it. Embalming is of course performed but this is only a temporary hindrance to decomposition.

I’ll pass on being buried.

P.S. - I’m sorry about the passing of your son, jaf46.

 

[Linna]

The body will be resurrected, but not in the flesh. Our bodies will put on the incorruptible and be glorified. The Catholic Church has a tendency to put a spin (or not) to what the Bible says which I feel is inappropriate. Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that we are not resurrected in the flesh. Catholic Church assumes everytime the Bible says “resurrection of the body” it means in the flesh. The New and Old Testament is very clear about putting on the incorruptible and having a glorified body - not flesh.