Criticism of Modern Science

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Is this your disproof, then? What about God as uncaused cause, first mover, etc.?
Disproof? What am I trying to disprove?

I don’t believe in God. That statement needs no defense. I know for a fact whether I believe in God or not.

God as a first mover explains nothing. What moved the first mover?
 
To use a computer connected to the Net to denigrate science is utter hypocrisy.

What about medicine? If you were to develope diabetes mellitus would you be willing to use the Banting method to keep yourself alive? Do you use electrical apparatus to heat and light your house in winter? What about an automobile? Do you use one of them to get to work?

Hypocrisy.
I get so tired of this bunk - let’s put and end to it - here is the evo hero Jerry Coyne.

"To some extent these excesses are not Mindell’s fault, for, if truth be told, evolution hasn’t yielded many practical or commercial benefits. Yes, bacteria evolve drug resistance, and yes, we must take countermeasures, but beyond that there is not much to say. Evolution cannot help us predict what new vaccines to manufacture because microbes evolve unpredictably. But hasn’t evolution helped guide animal and plant breeding? Not very much. Most improvement in crop plants and animals occurred long before we knew anything about evolution, and came about by people following the genetic principle of ‘like begets like’. Even now, as its practitioners admit, the field of quantitative genetics has been of little value in helping improve varieties. Future advances will almost certainly come from transgenics, which is not based on evolution at all."
 
How do you glean that from the Dr. Smith article? Do you think there is is no difference between pre- and post-Galileo-Cartesian science?
A side question. Are we in the post modern period regarding science?
A philosophy professor recently indicated that we are in the post modern period of philosophy.

Blessings,
granny

:confused:
 
I get so tired of this bunk - let’s put and end to it - here is the evo hero Jerry Coyne.

"To some extent these excesses are not Mindell’s fault, for, if truth be told, evolution hasn’t yielded many practical or commercial benefits. Yes, bacteria evolve drug resistance, and yes, we must take countermeasures, but beyond that there is not much to say. Evolution cannot help us predict what new vaccines to manufacture because microbes evolve unpredictably. But hasn’t evolution helped guide animal and plant breeding? Not very much. Most improvement in crop plants and animals occurred long before we knew anything about evolution, and came about by people following the genetic principle of ‘like begets like’. Even now, as its practitioners admit, the field of quantitative genetics has been of little value in helping improve varieties. Future advances will almost certainly come from transgenics, which is not based on evolution at all."
For one thing Buffalo, the thread is about criticisms of science, not just Evolution, although I note that you seem to think IDvolution is important.

Evolutionary Theory is a linchpin of Biological Science. Biological Science is important. Without Evolutionary Theory, there would be no context in which to understand Genetics or Genomics.

You and Jerry Coyne might not consider that important. Personally, I feel you’re mistaken.
 
For one thing Buffalo, the thread is about criticisms of science, not just Evolution, although I note that you seem to think IDvolution is important.

Evolutionary Theory is a linchpin of Biological Science. Biological Science is important. Without Evolutionary Theory, there would be no context in which to understand Genetics or Genomics.

You and Jerry Coyne might not consider that important. Personally, I feel you’re mistaken.
I think the problem is just missing the scales involved here. If Jerry Coyne’s view is that evolutionary theory’s commercial utility is modest with respect to other discoveries, I agree, and suggest that’s not the least bit surprising. Electro-magnetism, for example, is a force that when discovered and modeled as such has led to a series of technical and commercial revolutions; this is physics that has broad and multifarious commercial applications, even from a point where we only understand it in a primitive or basic sense.

Cellular biology doesn’t afford the commercialization of power systems and communications like the science underwriting electronics does. But as modest as the applications may be commercially now (and even if no further commercial breakthroughs obtain), it a whole lot more valuable and performative as knowledge than creationism/ID, or any other putative competitor for evolutionary theory.

Coyne’s point about the unpredictability of mutations is a powerful one. It confounds attempts to predict ahead of time “where this virus is going”. But even that is practical knowledge; our understanding of the stochastic nature of these low level processes establishes whole categories of pursuits which we can discount as “high cost, low return”. Understanding that a virus can and will evolve is useful, as well the fact that we cannot anticipate the particular developments that will occur, or at best anticipate them in broad statistical assessments.

-TS
 
What is a good book that criticizes modern science and considers it a futile attempt at seeking knowledge?
Book no, but the best article I have ever read as to the dangers of science as a source of absolute knowledge and of Catholic teaching is to be found in The Cambridge Companion to Galileo Cambridge University Press, 1998. It is by Marcello Pera, professor of philosophy, on leave, at the university of Pisa, Italy, at the time a Senator of the Italian Republic. It is called : The god of theologians and the god of astronomers. In it he shown that to place Catholic belief on science, such as Pope Pius XII did with the Big Bang, means one puts Catholic dogmas at the mercy of scientific credibility. As science is an ever changing exercise, what happens to Catholic belief depending on it? This danger also came to pass when churchmen took the word of philosophers and astronomers over that of the Church with regard to the Copernican heresy. Others examples are that the literal interpretation of Scripture have been dumped in favour of other scientific theories that are themselves now being exposed as nonsense. (Google in May’s new book on Evolution) In other words the interpretations of Genesis are now embroiled in the scientific rebuttals of numerous scholars and millions of people worldwide. What were once absolute literal interpretations of origins and dogmas such as A First Parent, Adam and Eve, Original Sin and the need for a Redeemer (Jesus Christ) have become the subject of doubt to many by way of popes entertaining scientific theories on origins.
Professor Pera shows this danger in his article.
 
Haha… I think you have misunderstood what I mean by “knowledge.” Sorry if I didn’t clarify. By knowledge I mean an understanding of absolute, unchanging truths, an understanding of objective reality.
In my opinion, the kind of truth you are looking for is simply not found in any of the empirical sciences. Regardless of how sophisticated or powerful natural science might be, it can only give us contingent truth.
 
What do you mean by that?
Recently, a philosophy professor commented that we are in the post modern period of philosophy. It seemed as if he were referring to a new grouping of philosophers. I simply wondered about science being in some kind of category. No big deal.
 
Recently, a philosophy professor commented that we are in the post modern period of philosophy. It seemed as if he were referring to a new grouping of philosophers. I simply wondered about science being in some kind of category. No big deal.
Rightly or wrongly (I’m sure you’ll let me know :)) I took from your point the following.

Science changes its models based on new findings, and the guys doing the science change their outlook in turn. Science is an exploration, and necessarily presents a moving target.

In that way it’s similar to capitalism, which morphs with changing times, as opposed to communism which gets stuck in a time warp.

Some theologians understand that and can live with it, some even rejoice in new knowledge of God’s handiwork. Those that can’t will presumably go the way of the communists, huddling together in Cuba or N Korea, counting themselves as men of sorrows (Isa 53:3) while the world moves on. :eek: 😃
 
In that way it’s similar to capitalism, which morphs with changing times, as opposed to communism which gets stuck in a time warp.
Capitalism morphs with the changing times… ROTFL!!!

Capitalism is altering our biosphere, changing our global climate, condemning billions of people worldwide to live in squalid depravity. It starts wars for oil, promotes ever increasing waste and concentrates power in the hands of a tiny elite.

In the meantime, we bury our heads in the sand like ostriches while capitalism poisons everything.
 
Listen to yourself. You sound like a whining child. Are you at all interested in the truth?

No one, I repeat, no one denies properly reasoned science.
😃

And a particuarlly obnoxious whining child, too. We can’t send him to his room, though.

Next thing you know-------you don’t get to go to College because you have doubts about Darwinian Evolution and are an IDer!!!:eek::rolleyes:
 
Capitalism morphs with the changing times… ROTFL!!!

Capitalism is altering our biosphere, changing our global climate, condemning billions of people worldwide to live in squalid depravity. It starts wars for oil, promotes ever increasing waste and concentrates power in the hands of a tiny elite.

In the meantime, we bury our heads in the sand like ostriches while capitalism poisons everything.
What do you think about distributism?
 
Capitalism morphs with the changing times… ROTFL!!!
Didn’t say it was good, just that it’s organic is all. Jeepers it’s not like I invented it, own any shares or have any money.

But go on, get it out your system, better out than in eh? :hey_bud:
 
Didn’t say it was good, just that it’s organic is all. Jeepers it’s not like I invented it, own any shares or have any money.

But go on, get it out your system, better out than in eh? :hey_bud:
Socialism in it’s uncorrupted form is simply the idea that each of us has a duty of care over each other. To use Stalin or Mao Tse Tung as examples of socialists is akin to characterizing all religious people as Abu Hamza or Gerry Falwell.
 
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