Cross on old chasubles

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pollycarp

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Does anybody know why the priest’s vestments/chasubles no longer have a cross on them? I always liked that on the old chasuble. I read that on the front it signified that the priest was to follow Christ. I guess it being on the back meant he was to carry it. I always wondered why they put that Y-thingy on most of the current vestments instead of the cross and what it means. Any answers appreciated. Thank you. God bless.
 
I read through the *Glossary of ecclesiastical ornament and costume By Augustus Welby Northmore Pugin *on google books and under the orphrey section it describes the “y thingy” as being a representation of the pallium. google the section, it was pretty interesting, and it covered roman vestments as well. It is a bit hard to read though.
 
I don’t like the modern chasubles at all. I don’t know why they removed the Cross from the back, but I guess it may be something to do with the new mass where the Priest faces the congregation. Not much point in having anything on the back when no one can see it. Also there has been a strong tendency to “tone down” the decorations on liturgical vestments in general. Look at how intricate the old vestments were. They were the pride of the Parish. A priest I know still uses ones over 100 years old and they are in good condition and have been handed down. Now most are plain colours and even the mitres of the Bishop are more plain. I think it is a shame since the High Altar and Beautiful vestments inspire a sense of awe and wonder due to the Holy Sacrafice which plain vestements and altars cannot inspire.
 
I will never like the newer vestments. They remind me of dresses from the 1960s (google caftans or mumu.) Regarding the pallium (Y-thingy), New Advent says they are for bishops.

Thanks. 🙂
 
The OP is a sweeping generalization. Many newer vestments have crosses, while many older ones did not. There is no rule. Nowadays vestments are usually made by large manufacturers, and they follow trends in their designs. However, I have seen many old chasubles, both fiddleback and gothic, that had floral designs without crosses.
 
Many of those fancier fabric (brocade, embroidered, etc) are extremely costly. A good plain chasuble of decent fabric could cost $1,000 or more. Really fancy ones upward to $3000. Those cheaper ones that people usually buy for funerals aren’t really worth the money (we ship them off to the missions).

When my husband was ordained a deacon 16 years ago his stoles alone cost close to $500 each, and they had no decoration on them, but they are of a good fabric and have not worn out.
 
Chatter163 said:
The OP is a sweeping generalization. Many newer vestments have crosses, while many older ones did not. There is no rule. Nowadays vestments are usually made by large manufacturers, and they follow trends in their designs. However, I have seen many old chasubles, both fiddleback and gothic, that had floral designs without crosses.
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Sweeping generalization - I haven’t seen a cross on a chasuble in 30 years except for requiem masses at the local Latin Mass church in my little corner of the world.
 
pollycarp said:
Sweeping generalization - I haven’t seen a cross on a chasuble in 30 years except for requiem masses at the local Latin Mass church in my little corner of the world.
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Yes, that is definitely a sweeping generalization.

Look up any church supplier online and view their chasubles. (I just looked at Tonini.net.) Plenty of chasubles do not have any crosses on them, but plenty do.
 
Chatter163 said:
Yes, that is definitely a sweeping generalization.

Look up any church supplier online and view their chasubles. (I just looked at Tonini.net.) Plenty of chasubles do not have any crosses on them, but plenty do.
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Thank you. I guess it’s just that no one is buying or wearing them where I go to masses.
😃
 
Many of the new chasubles look like someone cut a few yards of cloth and chopped a hole in the middle of it. They’re that ugly and tasteless.

That said, I have seen a few newer vestments (not counting those used at the TLM) that are pretty nice. Still, what’s being used at may church (Novus Ordo) doesn’t compare to what I’ve seen at the TLM churches.
 
pollycarp said:
Does anybody know why the priest’s vestments/chasubles no longer have a cross on them? I always liked that on the old chasuble. I read that on the front it signified that the priest was to follow Christ. I guess it being on the back meant he was to carry it. I always wondered why they put that Y-thingy on most of the current vestments instead of the cross and what it means. Any answers appreciated. Thank you. God bless.
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Actually, both the cross and the Y-shaped orphrey are both traditional. Let me take you back to the time when the chasuble developed into the vestment we know today.

The early casula and planeta/paenula - the ancestors of our chasubles - largely lacked any form of ornamentation. Because there was but one seam which ran vertically down the front of the chasuble that formed the garment into its bell shape, that seam came to be covered with a narrow braid-like band. I mean, no one really likes seams showing up, do they? In order to strengthen the fabric around the opening for the head, braid was also added. This is the origin of what is referred to as the ‘tau’ (T) style of ornament.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3575/0058t.jpg
A Roman paenula with hood (reconstruction). Note the seam running down the center.



http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1418/121170.jpg

It was a logical step from here to find that a corresponding strip of braid was applied to the back of the chasuble, even though it was purely decorative in nature. The width of these braid-like ornaments came to be increased over the centuries from something that was no more than 3-5cm to something that became up to 20cm in width. Very early on these strips ceased to be purely functional and became the focus of elaborate ornament and embroidery.

By the 14th century the chasuble had come to be ornamented in three common forms, with much variation:
  • The Y-shaped orphrey (thought to be derived from Roman and Jewish ceremonial garb), mainly found in Northern Europe and England. Many modern chasubles tend to use this design, perhaps under the influence of medieval Gothic chasubles.
  • The T- or Tau-shaped orphrey, which was an ornament applied to the front of the chasuble, but with the back of the chasuble ornamented with a simple column. This was actually the usual style in Italy and Rome.
  • The third form consisted of the back being decorated with a Latin Cross. This is the style you’re referring to. Note that this last style was not so frequently found in Italy, but was very common elsewhere in Europe!
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5128/thegallicanfrenchchasub.jpg
Latin Cross-shaped orphrey (‘Gallican’)

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/738/theitalianchasublepatte.jpg
Tau-shaped orphrey (‘Italian’)

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4168/abbotoct08d9738sar700.jpg
Y-shaped orphrey
 
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