Crossdressing and sexual titillation

[Holly3278]

I am engaged to a great guy who struggles with crossdressing. When we first started dating, he was intentionally vague about the “struggle” in that I was led to believe he was trying to rid himself of the addiction. It came out much later after we became engaged that the “struggle” was that of being accepted for it, and finding a partner or situation to express it more freely. We have had many casual discussions and tearful arguments on the topic. I finally agreed that I could accept the crossdressing within some strict limits, mainly, he doesn’t do it on his own, he gives up masturbation, and he cant dress up regularly for the marital act. We are at a tentative agreement. He wants to know why “crossdressing is a sin” and I think its not the crossdressing, its the sexual titillation he gets from walking around in women’s panties. Is there any biblical reference besides Matthew (because he’s not looking at other women lustfully, so he doesnt accept it as applicable) that speaks against the pursuit of sexual titillation, even if it doesn’t lead to ‘release’ ? How can I help him overcome it, when feminine lingerie and dresses are literally everywhere, taunting him?

Kat

Hi Kat. I am going to give my honest but frank opinion. I honestly think that you should proceed with extreme caution as to whether or not you are going to marry this man. Also, I would not accept his cross dressing habit under any terms, no matter how strict. I would also tell him that he has two choices: 1. Immediately stop cross dressing and immediately seek therapy from a good Catholic therapist. or 2. Face the end of your relationship with him.

As others have said, if you marry him while he has this habit, you’re going to be in for a world of hurt. Generally people with such disordered desires such as this also turn out to have a myriad of other mental health issues.

I am sorry that I must be so frank but I am concerned for you. If you don’t take immediate and decisive action on this, you could end up suffering the consequences big time in the future. Honestly, if you don’t seek immediate and decisive action, I can almost guarantee that any marriage you have with this man will end up in divorce court.

That said, there is hope if he agrees to immediately stop the cross dressing and is willing to seek out therapy for this.

 

[OraLabora]

I would also tell him that he has two choices: 1. Immediately stop cross dressing and immediately seek therapy from a good Catholic therapist. or 2. Face the end of your relationship with him.

This is not realistic. It isn’t a faith issue, it’s a psychological issue. He needs a proper diagnosis: is it fetishistic transvestism, or is he transgendered? If the latter, then I would agree she should have reservations about marrying him. If the former, it may be controllable to a certain extent, but it is not ever “curable”.

As others have said, if you marry him while he has this habit, you’re going to be in for a world of hurt.

Hurt is self-inflicted. Some women have no problems accepting it and working around the disorder, which BTW most psychologists consider relatively minor. Others take great offense. The ownership of how one feels about cross-dressing, for the offended, belongs to the offended and not the cross-dresser. The wife of the cross dresser also has her limitations and personality traits that are all her own. It really boils down to whether she is open-minded and can overcome her reticence, or due to her own limitations she cannot. If she can’t she’s better off not marrying him. If she can, then the relationship may be able to work. For those who manage to make it work, strict boundaries are usually required, and often the deal is that it is kept discreet and to himself, is done while alone, and most importantly that the children, if any, not be exposed to it.

Generally people with such disordered desires such as this also turn out to have a myriad of other mental health issues.

Not true. Gross over generalization. Most men with this fetish are highly intelligent and highly productive and functional members of society. Please don’t taint this discussion with your own prejudices.

That said, there is hope if he agrees to immediately stop the cross dressing and is willing to seek out therapy for this.

That would be an unrealistic expectation, although he may be able to keep a lid on it and go without for a very long time.

Very little is know about the etiology of cross-dressing, except that there is some evidence that some cases were started by the child being dressed as a girl by a significant female relative. That is, in fact, a form of perversive sexual abuse. For men who have suffered that kind of abuse, compassion will go much farther than condemnation. It is not a voluntary “sin”. It may be grave matter, and there may be full knowledge, but I can guarantee that there isn’t full consent. Most cross-dressers would probably, given the choice, wish to be anything but. Incidentally this has nothing to do with homosexuality.

If indeed her fiancé is a cross-dresser because of perversive sexual abuse by a significant female relative, he does need to confront that demon head-on, find a way to forgive from the heart, and obtain closure. Keeping a lid on that is most certainly more psychologically damaging than the cross-dressing itself.

Almost all of us bear the wounds of original sin. His cross-dressing is no better, nor any worse, than the sins we all bear. I have a friend who had an alcoholic father who beat his mother and whose mother showed him little or no affection. He has had marital difficulties over this as he comes across as very cold. My wife had a father who spent WWII in a Japanese prison camp and battled serious demons afterwards because of it. I was abused by my mother, and my father, who was my refuge and protector, died when I was 12. We all bear scars from unpleasant experiences. I suggest that if we turn away people with minor disorders based on their past, we would have few friends and no spouse.

Would it be better to marry a man who is upfront about his cross-dressing and understands his disorder, and is willing and able to deal with it within reasonable boundaries but is also a loving husband, father and provider, or would it be better to marry a man who later turns out to be a wife-beating alcoholic?

The one main thing that wives of cross-dressers bring up in their reaction to it, is the deception and lies that had been used to cover it up. Most say the cross-dressing they could live with, it’s the surprise of discovering it late in the marriage that is distressing due to the deception. At least her fiancé was up front about it. He took a huge risk in telling her, that he would lose her.

It may be looked at as a chronic disorder that has periods of relapse and remission. Is that any different than discovering that say, your husband has Crohn’s disease that is also marked with periods of remission, and relapse (when he wouldn’t be able to be very productive)?

In any case she is assured of one thing if she marries him: she is marrying an honest man, not a deceptive one.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

This is not realistic. It isn’t a faith issue, it’s a psychological issue. He needs a proper diagnosis: is it fetishistic transvestism, or is he transgendered? If the latter, then I would agree she should have reservations about marrying him. If the former, it may be controllable to a certain extent, but it is not ever “curable”.

I don’t know if you’re a professional… but what you said would be exactly what a competent specialist in the area would say.

I’m no therapist - but I am a researcher on the subject.

If the partner is not just transgendered, but transsexual, it’s a same-sex relationship. Even if the prospective partner appears to be the opposite sex.

I’ll quote Anne Vitale on the subject. Bear in mind, this is not about fetishistic transvestitism, nor even transgenderism, but actual transsexuality:

Secondly, “Dysphoria,” defined by Marriam-Webster’s Collegiate dictionary as “a state of feeling unwell or unhappy,” or in the American College Dictionary as “a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, or fidgeting” is simply too soft a word to describe the angst most clinicians see on intake with this population. At best it may be an apt descriptor for individuals who, despite strong evidence to the contrary, are making an extraordinary effort to convince themselves that they are sex/gender congruent. **These individuals make life decisions such as getting married and having children not only because they may find it appealing to have a spouse and have children but with the added hope that this activity will ease or erase their obsessive cross gender thoughts. Although there may be instances where these special efforts succeed, (i.e. the incongruity is mild) the more likely outcome is a realization they have actually made matters worse. **Typically, at time of presentation these individuals report that either their lives are in ruin, or they are very afraid that if their gender variant condition was to become known they would loose all that they cherish and be ostracized from family, friends and the ability to support themselves. High anxiety and deep depression with concurrent suicide ideation is common. One of the most extreme cases I have treated was that of a 50 year old genetic male, married and the father of 3 grown children with an international reputation as a scientist who reported to me that the reason he finally sought out treatment for his gender issues was because the number of times he found himself curled up in the corner of his office in the fetal position muffling his cry was increasing. That is not dysphoria, that is pure misery.

• avitale.com/TherapeuticErrors.htm

Marriages can survive under such trying circumstances though. There’s more to marriage than just sex. See for example this situation - youtube.com/watch?v=4Jm8ibENceo

 

[Cherry5]

Thanks Oralabora and ZoeBrain for shedding some more light on this condition. This is a very complex condition and the variations are numerous, however there are some common elements that are significant some of which have been noted in the previous two posts:

1. This condition CAN NOT be cured, the person can go into remission or as commonly referred to as “Purge” for up to several years only to come back with a vengance.
2. Suppressing it causes more damage than good.
3. Most Crossdressers are normal people fully functional and intelligent individuals that are able to make their respective contribution in what ever environment they find them selves.
4. This is not something that they have “brought on” to themselves but rather have to live with it.
5. There are many successful marriages involving crossdressers if both parties are willing to work it out by being honest and seeking assistance. I know of many many marriages that are working just great.
6. Much of the challenge is really the perception rather than being a big issue. Women seem to have it easier and go un-noticed because society accepts them wearing a wide range of attire which perhaps was frowned up on ages ago. I am sure this can be a discussion in its self.
7. There are many many crossdressers out there that are still in the closet, these are not effeminate men but “normal” men. I would not be surprised if some of you posting here with strong views have husbands/kids that are secretly crossdressing.

The bottom line is please do not condemn this section of individuals because of perception issues, I am confident that our Father knowing us and our traits will NOT condemn them.

 

[lufty]

Personally, I think going into a marriage with someone with ANY sexual disorder is a big mistake, and is bound for divorce. I wouldn’t have anything to do with that, regardless of the potential mate.

 

[OraLabora]

Personally, I think going into a marriage with someone with ANY sexual disorder is a big mistake, and is bound for divorce. I wouldn’t have anything to do with that, regardless of the potential mate.

That’s an opinion and you’re entitled to it.

It doesn’t necessarily make you right. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that this is a problem that is often blown out of proportion by folks who don’t understand it.

And why would a relatively minor sexual disorder be any different than other disorders? You love the entire person usually and that includes the good and the bad. Anybody going into a marriage thinking there won’t be problems or disorders or just difficult personality traits, is naive. Nobody is perfect. People have personality disorders or psychological disorders that can be significantly more debilitating than cross-dressing, even though they are non-sexual, and they often aren’t discovered until after marriage. Just think of the damage that alcohol has wrought on marriages. You enter any marriage with a significant level of risk that over their lives, one or the other partner will develop serious medical or psychological issues.

In fact if we applied your thinking, the post-war “baby boom” would not have occurred. After all who would want to marry men who suffered the trauma of war, which caused many psychological difficulties including alcoholism, severe depression and yes probably sexual disorders as well?

What you are saying in fact, is nothing short of prejudice and is an attack on the dignity of the persons involved who aren’t necessarily “bad” people. We are all part of a fallen world with our strengths and weaknesses. I guess it’s clear to me that prejudice certainly is one of the weaknesses… so I can’t claim to be surprised.

 

[karea]

This story brought me back to a situation my best friend was in two years ago–she was in a serious relationship with her boyfriend and they moved in together. One day she was doing laundry, and found women’s clothes in his dresser. She at first thought he was cheating on her, but he ended up admitting he was a cross dresser(apparently his sister used to dress him up in dresses when he was little and he ‘never grew out of it’). My sweet friend was reallly weirded out, but even came to accept it, even in the bedroom (which I thought was weird because she’s really…not like that). However, she didn’t want him going out dressed like that. Then she found out he was going out to clubs completely dressed as a woman and calling himself ‘Sara’, which she was not okay with.

They kept an open dialogue about it, with her accepting him for who he was except for the whole going to clubs thing. But it later came out that he was extremely confused, and that he had a desire to be a woman and not just dress as one once in awhile. They had quite a few other issues stemming from that that I won’t go into, and they broke off their relationship. They still talk once in awhile, and he is apparently still struggling. He hasn’t told any of his friends or family–I’m willing to bet if he didn’t think they’d say anything he would go through with becoming a woman. He seems afraid of the social consequences at this point.

This was a man she was very in love with and was planning to marry.Even though you’ve known him for 5 years, that definitely doesn’t mean that he tells you -everything-. This could be pretty serious. My sociology class had a transgender ‘woman’ come in to speak to us. ‘She’ told us she was a man her whole life, married with kids to a very devout Christian woman. She had cross dressed secretly every so often, and finally decided at age 50 to become a woman and get the surgery. His/‘her’ poor wife, who does not believe in divorce, has stayed in the marriage and is often perceived as a lesbian by those that do not know the story, and she has had a difficult time adjusting to the situation, especially in terms of going to church and their religious life together. Sure, he, well now ‘she’ was now happy, but at what cost?

I know you didn’t mention anything about him having a desire to be a woman, but it is possible, and that could be very crushing from what I’ve seen to deal with if you’re married w/kids down the road. Very sad for all involved.

 

[OraLabora]

They kept an open dialogue about it, with her accepting him for who he was except for the whole going to clubs thing. But it later came out that he was extremely confused, and that he had a desire to be a woman and not just dress as one once in awhile.

“Cross-dressing” is a pretty general term for an activity that biological men representing a wide spectrum of disorders, engage in.

Fetishistic or classic transvestism is a sexual fetish. Most men that engage in this are heterosexual, not otherwise mentally ill, can otherwise be very virile, and do not move on to having a sex change or care to lose their male parts. But a minority of cases do migrate to being transgendered. For the most part they engage in this activity as a form of sexual gratification although that aspect may lessen with age. Some can only reach orgasm through this fetish or by fantasizing about it, making it a true paraphilia. For others it is a bit of a kink, a variation of their sexual behavior and they remain quite capable of engaging in normal relations with women, and if their wives object to the behavior, are capable of keeping it out of the conjugal relationship. They are not homosexual.

Transgendered people have gender identity confusion. They too may or may not progress to transsexualism. Transgendered folks do not necessarily cross-dress for sexual gratification although there can be a sexual component. Sexual orientation can be either/or.

Transsexuals feel their mind/soul is incongruent with their bodies and seek hormonal and surgical sexual reassignment. There are sub-types I won’t get into. Interestingly some seek sexual reassignment but their sexual preference remains women making them… lesbians of sorts I guess.

There are other types, that are outside the scope of discussion because they don’t likely apply in the OPs case (drag queens, female impersonators, people born with various intersex disorders).

Of the three main categories I described, the first category should not be fatal to a marriage; with therapy some kind of livable arrangement is possible if both partners are willing to work at it. The second category is more difficult. The third, while a small minority of marriages will survive it, the prognosis is not good.

The case of “Sara” being dressed up as a girl as a child is a fairly typical etiology for the disorder. This is a form of abuse known as “perversive” sexual abuse (sexual abuse does not necessarily require sexual contact; humiliation or other factors can be a strong motivator). A sister doing it probably does not know what she’s doing assuming she too is a child, but this type of behavior has been done by mothers or adult women to children. The one case I am familiar with, the mother wished for a daughter, would call her son her “little girl”, and would dress him in sissy or girl’s clothes, and basically treated the child like her personal play doll. This produced a fetishistic transvestite in this instance.

Many fetishistic transvestites have anxiety over their condition. Lack of social acceptance is a large driver of that, but of course early on as well, now knowing about gender issues, they wonder if they have a gender identity issue. Professional help is needed to sort that out and properly diagnose the person and for the transvestite, reassure him that he isn’t alone, he’s not transgendered, and his is basically a common variation in sexuality.

I strongly feel that the OP and her fiancé should seek therapy especially for him in order to establish the diagnosis. If the diagnosis is classic transvestism, I think the risk of marrying him is reasonably low provided you can accept it and he is willing to compromise and at least try to control his behavior and limit it to mutually acceptable boundaries. After all if you loved a man, and he said he had a childhood cancer that only had a 5% chance of recurrence in his lifetime, you’d probably marry him. The chances of deterioration to transgender or transsexual are probably not higher than that, possibly lower. But that requires a professional assessment that I would urge him to obtain.

 

[lufty]

That’s an opinion and you’re entitled to it.

It doesn’t necessarily make you right. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that this is a problem that is often blown out of proportion by folks who don’t understand it.

And why would a relatively minor sexual disorder be any different than other disorders? You love the entire person usually and that includes the good and the bad. Anybody going into a marriage thinking there won’t be problems or disorders or just difficult personality traits, is naive. Nobody is perfect. People have personality disorders or psychological disorders that can be significantly more debilitating than cross-dressing, even though they are non-sexual, and they often aren’t discovered until after marriage. Just think of the damage that alcohol has wrought on marriages. You enter any marriage with a significant level of risk that over their lives, one or the other partner will develop serious medical or psychological issues.

In fact if we applied your thinking, the post-war “baby boom” would not have occurred. After all who would want to marry men who suffered the trauma of war, which caused many psychological difficulties including alcoholism, severe depression and yes probably sexual disorders as well?

What you are saying in fact, is nothing short of prejudice and is an attack on the dignity of the persons involved who aren’t necessarily “bad” people. We are all part of a fallen world with our strengths and weaknesses. I guess it’s clear to me that prejudice certainly is one of the weaknesses… so I can’t claim to be surprised.

You have some good points regarding non-sexual disorders, however I specifically mentioned sexual disorders and marriage. If a couple is having sexual identity issues prior to marriage, I think that’s a good sign that something needs to be resolved before making a life long commitment.
For me, issues of a sexual disorder would have to be resolved prior to my lifelong marriage commitment. FYI - I did not state that anyone posting was “bad”, just giving my $0.02.

 

[Cherry5]

“Cross-dressing” is a pretty general term for an activity that biological men representing a wide spectrum of disorders, engage in.

The chances of deterioration to transgender or transsexual are probably not higher than that, possibly lower. But that requires a professional assessment that I would urge him to obtain.

Very good points Oralabora. This would be a very different world if there was a wider and more intrinsic understanding by the general population of these conditions. This is an prerequisite for moving forward in order to address the challenges of working with these situations. There is no reason to believe that with the right coaching that most of these couples can not work out a fulfilling relationship.
There are far too many individuals trying to live their lives struggling to live up to the expectations of their peers only because of their lack of knowledge and resultant embarrassment. As a result they are living lives of misery and not attaining their full potential and in the process adversely affecting those nearest and dearest to them.
I do not for a moment believe that this was God’s plan. He loves us as we are and wants us to develop all the talents he has given us, we can only do this if we accept who we are and love the way we are.
We need to prepare our kids to face a world that is much more accepting of these individuals for whom they are. It is in this environment that they flourish and attain fulfillment. Too bad most of them have been shunned away from our Church because of lack of understanding and acceptance.
I have been on both sides of this debate and can tell you first hand that unless you are an intrinsic part of it, it is very difficult to perceive. I do acknowledge that many of these individuals go down a path of self destruction, but this is not the majority and largely stems in most cases from the pressures of guilt and rejection.
I understand where most of the posters are coming from but pray that you are blessed with the grace to be more open to acceptance and love so we can have a better world to live in.

God Bless you

 

[Antrim]

AlI will say that I worked with guy who strugeled with cross dressing for years…

He ended up having a sex change operation.

He was not catholic.

I just want you to know what happens some times.

Antrim

 

[OraLabora]

I just want you to know what happens some times.

The key word here is some times. Not always. And not often. But one has to be frank, yes it does happen, just like with some cancers with a 95% successful cure rate, some folks will fall into the 5%.

You have some good points regarding non-sexual disorders, however I specifically mentioned sexual disorders and marriage. If a couple is having sexual identity issues prior to marriage, I think that’s a good sign that something needs to be resolved before making a life long commitment.
For me, issues of a sexual disorder would have to be resolved prior to my lifelong marriage commitment. FYI - I did not state that anyone posting was “bad”, just giving my $0.02.

It depends on where you perceive the dividing line between variation in sexual preference, and “deviancy”. A cross-dresser may in fact have fairly normal sexual response with women. Most do in fact. Not all cross-dressers need to incorporate it in the bedroom. Most psychologists with expertise in the area will recognize that it isn’t a debilitating problem. It does not prevent normal marital relations. Many cross-dressers, are in stable marriages.

At some level, it isn’t much different than a guy who has this thing for redheads, but marries a blonde. He may love her, he may be faithful to her and not ever cheat on her, but he may fantasize about redheads, and may even go to the extent of buying his wife a red wig. Some women may feel OK playing along, others may feel threatened, others may be neutral but not want to have any part of their husband’s fantasy.

 

[rodarbal]

Seems what most think that it is some sort of disorder. Why? What if blond hair were called a disorder. Blonde people would think they are a bunch of freaks their whole life, suicides up, marriages fail. Point is once the person accepts they are in a different but not a bad category, the person can grow and be at peace with themselves.
“God did not make them a crossdresser” Hoooey, He makes us in His image.
Get out of the societally created binary humanity structures and don’t assume a black OR white world. Just isn’t so.

He needs to be 100% honest about himself about everything as well she does too. Being trans is no picnic and if after full disclosure and she can’t deal with it, move on, but don’t hate him for it. It takes guts to be honest about something so personal. I would not call it a deal breaker. The man is not lying about it and that speaks for his character. That should go into the “yes I will” column.

 

[REDfan4Lyfe]

If he’s doing it for something other than sexual titillation, then he’s gonna be alright on a moral level. But you still need to talk this over with him. I was in a situation very similar to his when I was in middle school (and it’s starting to creep back). But I wasn’t doing it for a sexual thrill, I wore them because they looked pretty and because it felt comfortable (not that I was seeking sexual pleasure from it). I pray you find help for your husband to be.