Crossed Arms in Holy Communion line

[Rickwood]

However, I maintain that you have not provided any authoritative documentation from the Holy See that affirms your notion that this is allowed. Might I add that this comment from Cardinal Ainze would further make the point about introducing something that has no place in the Mass:

Here, he speaks fo introducing idiosyncracies into the Mass that, however well-intentioned they may be, should not be done at all. Just because someone came up with that idea, that doesn’t mean that it is allowable.

“However” nothing. Stop using the red herrings. That’s very bad form.

 

[Rickwood]

But, there is nothing in the GIRM nor in RS that allows it. Furthermore, even the book of blessings is very careful about who should be doing what in the context of the Mass.

You have not addressed my point on Spiritual Communion. What do you have against people remaining in their pews in prayer if they cannot receive Our Lord? It is certainly a long-standing traditino, especially if the saints have promulgated it.

The GIRM, RS, BB, etc. don’t mention a lot of things, but that doesn’t make said things “wrong.”

I was thinking about the Masses on EWTN. There is no mention in those documents about thumping one’s breast three times during the Confiteor (but there will be); using more than one corporal on the altar; wiping the inside of the chalice after wine has been poured into it; prostrating oneself during the canon of the Mass; ringing sanctus bells when the celebrant consumes the Precious Blood; going up to the priest for a blessing; using an ablution cup; etc. etc. etc. yet they do them on EWTN every day. They are not “abuses” or even “irregularities.”

Amazing how selective some “boy the book” people can be.

 

[Rickwood]

Why are some people saying this is a long held “tradition”
It started to become popular in the last couple decades…not something i would call tradition…

Personally i think the reception of communion is for that…to receive communion…and why can’t people waitto receive a blessing at the end???

It most certainly is a tradition. You might be confusing it with Sacred Tradition which it is not.

I don’t think there are time limits on customs or disciplines, and that’s what a tradition is.

 

[BSHoop96]

Your attempted introduction of a non-issue per this thread – EMsHC/blessings into this conversation for the purpose of trying to “make your point” is bad form.

Bad form not because of what you said but because you thought you could introduce something that has no bearing on the current discussion as a means to derail the conversation without others noticing. You may not even be aware that you are doing it, but it is very noticeable.

Rickwood, she probably spoke of it because it also came up in the previous thread we had on this last month. EMsHC actually have given blessings although they are of course not the same as a blessing from a priest.

I will repeat what I said in the earlier thread.

*I talked to my priest about this and he said the practice of coming up for a blessing during communion started spontaneously and has an unknown origin. That is to say that the church (magisterium) did not institute this practice, however it has become a common practice in most catholic parishes in this country.

He went on to say that while he would never refuse a blessing to someone, however, it was a “communion” line and not a “blessing” line. And also we all get blessed at end of Mass. He also said he would talk about it more in RCIA. So he deals with the issue as he instructs people. Hopefully it spreads. He also said that it probably came about as a desire to include but that is was important to keep in mind that there is no comparison between receiving a blessing and receiving the body and blood of Christ of Savior and he sometimes wondered if this inclusive practice confuses more than it actually helps.*

He sure seems right about the confusion part. Anyway, we got the idea and my candidate husband no longer goes up for the blessing. He gets one at the end along with everyone else.
Btw, the hand holding at the Our Father is the same. Not started by the magisterium.

I, for one, am not saying that it is specifically “against the rules”. I am just stating what I was told. That the magisterium of the Church did not introduce it. It’s something that has been added. Sometimes that can be a slippery slope.

If your priest invites you up, that’s up to him. But if he doesn’t I would ask him how he “really” feels about it before doing so. I had no idea until I asked.

Here’s the thread if you’re interested.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=252922

 

[jmcrae]

It’s been around since at least the late 1970s, because a friend of mine who converted in 1978 remembers going up for blessings while she was in RCIA.

Back then, RCIA was taught by the Bishop, and it was the Bishop who gave them blessings at Mass.

 

[japhy]

thumping one’s breast three times during the Confiteor (but there will be)

Yeah, right now we’re directed to strike our breast only once.

using more than one corporal on the altar

I haven’t witnessed (or noticed) this practice. Do you mean layering corporals (and not merely altar cloths, but corporals)?

wiping the inside of the chalice after wine has been poured into it

That does sound odd to me. The E.F. rubrics direct the priest to wipe the chalice before the wine is poured into it. Actually, I’m now seeing two different versions: one mentions that “[t]he priest may wipe away drops from the side of the chalice with the purificator before he replaces the chalice next to the corporal”, the other does not. But yes, this isn’t a rubric (even as an option) mentioned in the current liturgical texts.

prostrating oneself during the canon of the Mass

“Prostrating” as in lying down on the floor?! Odd indeed.

ringing sanctus bells when the celebrant consumes the Precious Blood

Yeah, not mentioned.

going up to the priest for a blessing

Right…

using an ablution cup…

This is an additional vessel used during ablutions? Yeah, not mentioned.

On the one hand, it would be nice if such genuinely traditional practices (meaning, those present in the 1962 liturgy) were implicitly or explicitly permitted in the reformed liturgy; however, the reformed Missal is not supposed to be interpreted as building off the older one.

On the other hand, it would be nice if EWTN did celebrate the Mass by the books for real.

 

[japhy]

It’s been around since at least the late 1970s, because a friend of mine who converted in 1978 remembers going up for blessings while she was in RCIA. Back then, RCIA was taught by the Bishop, and it was the Bishop who gave them blessings at Mass.

Wasn’t it RCIA procedure that catechumens were dismissed from Mass before the Creed?! That’s how it is now… they shouldn’t be present for the Communion procession.

 

[Phemie]

It’s been around since at least the late 1970s, because a friend of mine who converted in 1978 remembers going up for blessings while she was in RCIA.

Back then, RCIA was taught by the Bishop, and it was the Bishop who gave them blessings at Mass.

It may have become tradition in some parishes but I’ve belonged to 9 or 10 different parishes since 1978 (in 5 different provinces) and have attended many others. In none of those did I ever encounter this going up for a blessing at Communion.

 

[Phemie]

Wasn’t it RCIA procedure that catechumens were dismissed from Mass before the Creed?! That’s how it is now… they shouldn’t be present for the Communion procession.

Only catechumens are dismissed, not those who are candidates to be received into full communion.

 

[benedictgal]

The GIRM, RS, BB, etc. don’t mention a lot of things, but that doesn’t make said things “wrong.”

I was thinking about the Masses on EWTN. There is no mention in those documents about thumping one’s breast three times during the Confiteor (but there will be); using more than one corporal on the altar; wiping the inside of the chalice after wine has been poured into it; prostrating oneself during the canon of the Mass; ringing sanctus bells when the celebrant consumes the Precious Blood; going up to the priest for a blessing; using an ablution cup; etc. etc. etc. yet they do them on EWTN every day. They are not “abuses” or even “irregularities.”

Amazing how selective some “boy the book” people can be.

Actually, you have been pretty selective in some of your posts in other threads. That being said, just because something is not indicated in either the GIRM, RS or the Book of Blessings doesn’t give a priest free license to insert it on his own authority. Furthermore, inclusion doesn’t justify inserting an ilicit practice into the Mass.

Incidentally, regarding the striking of the breast, pay close attention the next time the Holy Father celebrates Mass. He strikes his breast at the triple Mea Culpa.

 

[japhy]

Only catechumens are dismissed, not those who are candidates to be received into full communion.

Ah, right. I remembered catechumens, but forgot about candidates…

 

[JanetMCA]

I did not know that it was incorrect to receive a blessing instead of communion. I cannot receive communion until my husband’s first marriage is anulled. I have been getting a blessing at the urging of my priest during communion time. In fact, while visiting a church in Hawaii recently, before mass the lector made an announcement about those who cannot take communion may receive a blessing and demonstrated how to do it.

 

[Rickwood]

Yeah, right now we’re directed to strike our breast only once.

I haven’t witnessed (or noticed) this practice. Do you mean layering corporals (and not merely altar cloths, but corporals)?

That does sound odd to me. The E.F. rubrics direct the priest to wipe the chalice before the wine is poured into it. Actually, I’m now seeing two different versions: one mentions that “[t]he priest may wipe away drops from the side of the chalice with the purificator before he replaces the chalice next to the corporal”, the other does not. But yes, this isn’t a rubric (even as an option) mentioned in the current liturgical texts.

“Prostrating” as in lying down on the floor?! Odd indeed.

Yeah, not mentioned.

Right…

This is an additional vessel used during ablutions? Yeah, not mentioned.

On the one hand, it would be nice if such genuinely traditional practices (meaning, those present in the 1962 liturgy) were implicitly or explicitly permitted in the reformed liturgy; however, the reformed Missal is not supposed to be interpreted as building off the older one.

On the other hand, it would be nice if EWTN did celebrate the Mass by the books for real.

Everybody has a different story and understanding. When I see the GIRM/RS printout people at work, the first analogy that comes to mind is a dozen Protestants and a dozen differing interpretations of Scripture.

Watch an EWTN Mass closely. They do a lot of things that are not called out in the current rubrics yet many consider them the pinnacle of orthodoxy. (I have NEVER seen a Mass auditor point out their variances.)

I remember asking Fr. John Trigilio about the brief bell ringing as the celebrant consumes the Precious Blood. He said because it’s a practice of the EF and because it was not specifically reprobated, that it was fine to do it at the OF. He might be right, but I rather doubt he is. Either way the ring is harmless and does nothing to hurt the Mass.

 

[Rickwood]

Actually, you have been pretty selective in some of your posts in other threads. That being said, just because something is not indicated in either the GIRM, RS or the Book of Blessings doesn’t give a priest free license to insert it on his own authority. Furthermore, inclusion doesn’t justify inserting an ilicit practice into the Mass.

Incidentally, regarding the striking of the breast, pay close attention the next time the Holy Father celebrates Mass. He strikes his breast at the triple Mea Culpa.

I didn’t think you had an answer for EWTN’s variances. I guess they are all “abuses” in your world.

I’m not the Pope. I simply follow the rubrics of the Mass and I believe he would want me to do that which currently means one strike and not three. When it formally changes to three I will comply, but not until then.

And it’s you that’s flip-flopping. On the one hand you treat us to the same cut-and-paste jobs ad nauseum (as if we have never seen them before) yet you then infer we are free to ignore your beloved GIRM if we happen to see the Pope do something to the contrary via a televised Mass on EWTN. :hypno:

(I like to think the three strikes are a little message to the GIRM printout group that there is more to the Mass and more to understanding it then reading a half dozen printouts from EWTN’s on-line document library.)

 

[ibkc]

Rickwood,
you are fond of referring to the “GIRM printout group” in a derogatory manner. What are your own credentials, that you can speak so authoritatively and be so hostile to everyone else?

 

[Rickwood]

Rickwood,
you are fond of referring to the “GIRM printout group” in a derogatory manner. What are your own credentials, that you can speak so authoritatively and be so hostile to everyone else?

Luke 6:42 – “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.”

 

[Petergee]

The Catholic Church’s official Book of Blessings says in its General Introduction:

"28. Because some blessings have a special relationship to the sacraments, they may sometimes be joined with the celebration of Mass.
This book specifies what such blessings are and the part or rite with which they are to be joined; it also provides norms that may not be disregarded. No blessings except those so specified may be joined with the eucharistic celebration."

The book does not indicate any blessings which may be administered during the administration of Communion. Hence I conclude that the practice is illicit.

Excuse me, but I feel I need to quote myself, because everyone totally ignored the fact I pointed out, and some continue to insist that there is no official prohibition on blessings during Communion.

 

[japhy]

Excuse me, but I feel I need to quote myself, because everyone totally ignored the fact I pointed out, and some continue to insist that there is no official prohibition on blessings during Communion.

Thank you for bringing that to our attention again; I read it the first time but admittedly passed over it. So it would appear that, based on the Book of Blessings, only those blessings contained therein that are explicitly mentioned as being apropos to the Eucharistic liturgy (as well as blessings found in the Missal itself) may be incorporated into the Mass. So, presumably, if the Church desired to permit this blessing during Communion, the CDWDS would put out some sort of addendum to (or new typical edition of, but I find that unlikely) the Book of Blessings containing it. That sounds reasonable, no?

(And, just to be sure, the Book of Blessings has no such blessing in it, right?)

 

[benedictgal]

Luke 6:42 – “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.”

Then, respectfully, this would also apply when we correct your interpretations and post what the documents say along with authoritative interpretation from the Holy See.

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you for bringing that to our attention again; I read it the first time but admittedly passed over it. So it would appear that, based on the Book of Blessings, only those blessings contained therein that are explicitly mentioned as being apropos to the Eucharistic liturgy (as well as blessings found in the Missal itself) may be incorporated into the Mass. So, presumably, if the Church desired to permit this blessing during Communion, the CDWDS would put out some sort of addendum to (or new typical edition of, but I find that unlikely) the Book of Blessings containing it. That sounds reasonable, no?

(And, just to be sure, the Book of Blessings has no such blessing in it, right?)

To my knowledge, I don’t believe so. And, I agree with what japhy said. If the Church desired to incorporate this into the Mass, then, the CDWDS would have already issued an indult or some other document permitting this (along with the norms for same). To my knowledge, such an animal does not exist.