Crossed Arms in Holy Communion line

[ac_claire]

Hi Kyria,

Ok tell me then what did Jesus command with regard to the children.

This is what I see Christ commanding.

Let the children come to me; do not stop them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these” (Mk 10:14)

Would you please care to quote something from scripture that wants us to stop children going up for a blessing?

Since they are not going up for Communion, they are no more “going up to Jesus” by coming in the line for an extra blessing than if they stayed in their seats praying during Communion. Nor are they being prevented from coming to Jesus by not walking up in the line. The blessing for all comes at the end of the mass.

I am sorry you feel it is meaningless. It isn’t to me. Because I saw a child with enthusiasm and joy and innocence and a desire to be included in the community of Christ. If it were meaningless, I wouldn’t have sat with a smile on my face during mass watching this child. Might be meaningless to you, but I have a hunch it wasn’t meaningless to Christ for he said to let the children come to him and not stop them.

Nobody is preventing or wants to prevent children from coming to Jesus. This isn’t about keeping children from Jesus. It’s about using the part of mass called Communion for individual blessings.

I don’t think that blessings are meaninless- sorry if it seemed that’s what I was saying in my last post. I was trying to say that the fact that Communion-line blessings make you happy and put a smile on your face, ultimately has no bearing on whether it’s a good practice or not. This is sentimentalism and it has nothing to do with the liturgy.

Why do you say the Children going up aren’t going up to receive Jesus? Aren’t the priests representing Christ?

Well because they aren’t receiving Christ; they are receiving a blessing from a priest. Receiving implies Communion. My point though was that they weren’t “receiving Jesus” any more or less walking up in the line than if they stayed in pew with all the other non-communicants.

Can I ask you something? how does people going up to receive a blessing impact on you yourself?

My specific interest and concern about this issue is explained in post #281 in this thread.

Once again, this isn’t about the impact of the liturgy on me or you or any other person. It’s about the nature and integrity of the liturgy itself. We shouldn’t advocate adding or subtracting or changing the liturgy in any way to suit our personal likes and dislikes. Certainly we can agree on that?

 

[gryffen]

Hi

When i got married (in full catholic ceremony) to recieve the blessing i made the sign of the St. Andrews cross (Scottish flag).

The priest who was overseeing our marriage was wonderful and there was 30 people there on my family who made this gesture out of respect and the other 200 people were all catholics on my husbands side (yeah…big family!!)

I think its a beautiful gesture of respect and active involvment within the church - i go up nearly every weekend for a blessing, even visiting priests are aware of what the gesture represents.

Isnt the whole point of mass to celebrate life, and to do this we need to support, not chatise, those who are unsure.

Just my 2p in!

 

[pnewton]

I think that this could creating confusion in the understanding of communion and if that it is true that it is poor catechesis.

I do not think this practices fosters poor catechesis. I think a better phrase is incomplete catechesis. When teaching little children (or anyone), you start with on the truth the mind can handle and work your way up. That is the logic behind this practice. A child can not have an Augustinian understanding of Jesus, but he can understand the idea of progressing as a member of the Church to be with Jesus.

 

[Phemie]

Isnt the whole point of mass to celebrate life,
Just my 2p in!

In a word, NO. The point of Mass is to praise and worship God the Father, with and through his Son Jesus Christ.

 

[kyria]

Hi Kyria,

My specific interest and concern about this issue is explained in post #281 in this thread.

 

[Appleby]

Did Jesus not lecture the Pharisees and Saducees about gluing themselves to the letter of the law and completely missing the spirit thereof?

Did he not once say The Sabbath was made for Man and not Man for the Sabbath when Pharisees came whining after him for missing some step of the ritual or for picking something to eat on a Sabbath day?

Did not David and his men eat the Shewbread, reserved for the priests, in a time of urgent need?

Should we not worry so much about the outside of the cup and plate that we miss the nasty interiors and what they contain?

I believe in the liturgy of the Mass and I believe it should be maintained – but not to the extent that it starts shutting people out instead of inviting them in.

Otherwise I would be agitating for the exclusion of all children from the Mass who cannot keep quiet and who are not old enough or disciplined enough to not throw toys, climb over the pews, kick people sitting next to them and try to shriek so loudly that the priest cannot be heard. We have all of this in our Mass and it is absolutely impossible sometimes to contemplate the Divine Mystery before the Mass begins, because of all the running, yelling, kicking and crying going on.

 

[janw]

I agree with Appleby, if this could instill in a child a love for Jesus at a young age, may be so many young people would not fall away from the church when they become adults. Its ok with our deacons and our priest and I’m so glad because it means a lot to my husband and I.

Going up for a blessing, showing great reverence so close to our Lord is not the same as communion. Until we can receive communion, bowing before him is a way I feel I can say to Jesus, you are my Lord and my God and I love you and humble myself before you. The blessing from the priest is a special little gift. I really like to go up just to be near our Lord.

 

[kyria]

=janw;4121693]

Going up for a blessing, showing great reverence so close to our Lord is not the same as communion. Until we can receive communion, bowing before him is a way I feel I can say to Jesus, you are my Lord and my God and I love you and humble myself before you.

I really like to go up just to be near our Lord.

 

[Lepanto]

I never cease to be amazed at how some people presume to have authority that they do not have and dare to alter the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass so as to appease their own whims. (Do we really need another Protestant reformation???)

From Sacrosanctum Concilium #22:
22. 1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.

1. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.
2. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

 

[pnewton]

I never cease to be amazed at how some people presume to have authority that they do not have and dare to alter the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass so as to appease their own whims. (Do we really need another Protestant reformation???)

I don’t think anyone is proposing that they do that. Everything remains the same as far as the words of the Mass and the gestures that accompany it.

Let me ask you. Are you just as adament against people kneeling for communion when a profound bow is called for? If so, based on your quote, what is the difference?

 

[Phemie]

I don’t think anyone is proposing that they do that. Everything remains the same as far as the words of the Mass and the gestures that accompany it.

Let me ask you. Are you just as adament against people kneeling for communion when a profound bow is called for? If so, based on your quote, what is the difference?

There is a difference in that kneeling for Communion is the universal norm (maybe not the US & Canada’s) and Rome has already said that even in countries that have been granted the indult to stand for Communion kneeling is good and licit and obedient.

 

[pnewton]

There is a difference in that kneeling for Communion is the universal norm (maybe not the US & Canada’s) .

Then it is not a* universal* norm. What are we? Chopped liver? There was a reason I asked this question to be asked only in terms of the quote listed above. If a profound bow is mandated, can a receipiant add kneeling? I think so. What I do not see is why that would be deemed allowable, even though a bow is called for, yet something like a blessing for a little child is deemed inappropriate by the same person.

 

[limerickbhoy]

hi everyone

this is my 1st posting in this thread

i totally agree wih gryffen in her post

in my parish the priest says that anyone

can come up & recieve a blessing EVEN if they

are not catholic.

since he spends most of his time in america he sees

nothin wrong with anyone goin up to recieve a blessing

 

[Phemie]

Then it is not a* universal* norm. What are we? Chopped liver? There was a reason I asked this question to be asked only in terms of the quote listed above. If a profound bow is mandated, can a receipiant add kneeling? I think so. What I do not see is why that would be deemed allowable, even though a bow is called for, yet something like a blessing for a little child is deemed inappropriate by the same person.

It’s universal in that anyone, anywhere may kneel for Communion.

Rome has made it crystal clear that just because certain countries have been granted an indult for standing doesn’t change the fact that kneeling is universal norm and anyone may do so without disobedience.

 

[japhy]

It’s universal in that anyone, anywhere may kneel for Communion.

Rome has made it crystal clear that just because certain countries have been granted an indult for standing doesn’t change the fact that kneeling is universal norm and anyone may do so without disobedience.

But something that I had neglected to notice, until recently, is that Redemptionis Sacramentum n. 91 says: “Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.”

Thus, despite the kneeling/standing posture determined by the Conference of Bishops, a Catholic cannot be denying for desiring to receive either kneeling or standing. This makes it a bit tricky to determine what is the “universal norm”.

 

[pnewton]

It’s universal in that anyone, anywhere may kneel for Communion.

I understand and agree, even though it is not in the GIRM. What was said is that no one may be denied communion for kneeling. That is not my point. I only wanted to show that the adage of anything not in the GIRM is forbidden does not work. Obviously words can not be added to the prayers, but things like posture blessings have been: kneeling and blessing. The only differences I see are the age of the practice (which is not mentioned as an excuse to deviate) and which one is preferred by traditionalist.

 

[ac_claire]

That’s the thing that I have always wondered. Are they afraid they will get out of Church a minute later or something? And yes, Jesus is more really present at the altar in the hands of the priest than in the pew making spiritual communion. That is what we Catholics believe.

But that’s if you’re receiving Him in Communion. He’s more present to you then because He literally becomes a part of you. You are not “closer” to Jesus in adoration by walking up to be closer to the priest and the concecrated Hosts rather than staying in the seat. For 2000 years people who don’t receive communion haven’t gone up in the communion line for a blessing instead. Were they being prevented from “going to Jesus” all along? Of course not! That’s just silly.

And it doesn’t matter how if impacts me personally, or you or anyone else. What we’re trying to get away from, or I am at least in this discussion lol, is how this all personally makes us feel. We go down that road and we’re basically justifying any deviation from liturgical norms on the basis of sentimentalism. That’s a slippery slope.

Messing around with the structure and form of the mass is a slippery slope indeed.

 

[ac_claire]

Just wanted to add, I am not adamently against this practice. There is nothing inherently wrong with going up to receive a blessing, or rather with priests inviting poeple to join the Communion line to do so. If I’m adament about anything in this discussion it’s the idea that a deviation from a litrugical norm is ok simply because it makes someone feel good, is “positive”, brings a smile to one’s face, etc., etc. That kind of reasoning is troubling, for obvious reasons.

I’ve thought the same way before, (and advocated for my position here on CAF), about issues such as holding hands during the Our Father, etc. I’ve since learned the error of my ways. It’s not about us, you know? There is intrinsic worth in protecting the standards and form of the mass. They are there for a good reason.

 

[Rickwood]

This morning while viewing the Daily Mass on EWTN I noticed that several people in line approached the Priest who was distributing Holy Communion with their arms crossed in front of them.

The Priest touched their heads with the Sign of the Cross, but they did not receive Holy Communion.

I don’t understand this. What took place?

They processed-up for a blessing from a priest during communion which is perfectly OK. According to the Church allowing/not allowing blessings during communion is up to the local ordinary.

It seems a little odd for them to assume the same posture Byzantine Catholics use TO receive communion, but at least it keeps the Latin Rite bishops/priests from getting confused.

 

[Rickwood]

It’s universal in that anyone, anywhere may kneel for Communion.

Within the context of the OF in the USA the kneelers are also to be counseled outside of Mass for the norm of standing in the USA.