Crossing Arms, Comunion

[damooster]

This discussion also has me thinking…

When a person goes up to get a blessing, the priest makes a cross on their forehead with the same fingers/thumb he uses to distribute communion:

1. Aren’t the chances very high that a crumb of the Holy Eucharist is now on the person or on the floor?
2. The priest touches someone’s forehead and then distributes Holy Communion with the same fingers…doesn’t that kind of bother anyone else?

Not trying to be argumentative, but I just realized this after reading everyone’s responses.

 

[mullenpm]

It is very bothersome damooster -

and I will never understand the need of some people for this special attention when everyone receives the blessing from the Priest at the ending of the Mass.:grouphug:

 

[Lormar]

Mullenpm, I agree. This is just another bit of silliness that has come about since Vatican II. I’ve seen it in SSPX churches as well.

Everyone gets a blessing from the priest at the end of Mass. That is sufficient.

 

[benedictgal]

I atended the Vigil Mass at 4 pm today. I had to work right after, I worked at 5 30 and it takes about a half hour to get to work. I could not stay for the whole Mass and i was sure that i was goign to be late if i stayed. I decided to leave after/during comunion. However, I did not want to be disrespctful to the Euchrist or to the priest or anybody or to God or to the people of the parish or to sin…my friend that was with recived, but i chose not to becuase i did not feel it was right for me to recive comunion and then just leave in the middle of mass…so i walked up to the priest and crossed my arms for the blesing…Did I do the right thing???

also, i went to the 7 15 mass this morning, recived communion. and lets asume for a moment i stayed for the whole vigil mass and recived communion, and then i went to the 10 am mass on sunday, and recived communion…would that have been allowed? i know you can only recive 2twice in one day… but… i just want to make sure.

With all due respect, you did not do the right thing. You should not have approach the priest for a blessing. The line is only for those who are properly disposed to receive Holy Communion.

The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued a note with five observations as to why this should not be done:

1. The liturgical blessing of the Holy Mass is properly given to each and to all at the conclusion of the Mass, just a few moments subsequent to the distribution of Holy Communion.

1. Lay people, within the context of Holy Mass, are unable to confer blessings. These blessings, rather, are the competence of the priest (cf. Ecclesia de Mysterio, Notitiae 34 (15 Aug. 1997), art. 6, § 2; Canon 1169, § 2; and Roman Ritual De Benedictionibus (1985), n. 18).

1. Furthermore, the laying on of a hand or hands — which has its own sacramental significance, inappropriate here — by those distributing Holy Communion, in substitution for its reception, is to be explicitly discouraged.

1. The Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio n. 84, “forbids any pastor, for whatever reason to pretext even of a pastoral nature, to perform ceremonies of any kind for divorced people who remarry”. To be feared is that any form of blessing in substitution for communion would give the impression that the divorced and remarried have been returned, in some sense, to the status of Catholics in good standing.

1. In a similar way, for others who are not to be admitted to Holy Communion in accord with the norm of law, the Church’s discipline has already made clear that they should not approach Holy Communion nor receive a blessing. This would include non-Catholics and those envisaged in can. 915 (i.e., those under the penalty of excommunication or interdict, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin).

Such a practice is strongly discouraged and should not be done. For those of you in doubt, this document carries with it a protocol number: Protocol No. 930/08/L.

 

[benedictgal]

I will ask my priest how he feels about that tonight. Our church is having a Communal Penance Service. We will be having approx. 8 priests to hear our confessions.

Our church has 3 priests that I talk with whenever I get the chance to say hello to them when I see them on the church grounds or office.

I will report back tomorrow. PEACE, LaLucia

This should not be a matter that concerns how a priest feels about the practice. The bottom line is that the Holy See has already issued a directive. Please read my initial response to this thread. It should not be done.

 

[mullenpm]

Thank you Benedictgal, as usual you came forth with the documentation.

I’ll never understand the stubborness of some Catholics who want to do their own thing irrespective of what the Church says.

 

[WhiteDove359]

a TON OF PEOPLE at my parish go up all the time for the blessing…

 

[benedictgal]

a TON OF PEOPLE at my parish go up all the time for the blessing…

Just because “a tone of people” do something, that does not legitimize the practice. These “blessings” in lieu of receiving Holy Communion should not be done. The line is to receive Someone (Jesus in Holy Communion) not something (a blessing) that will be imparted to everyone at its proper time, the end of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[mullenpm]

WhiteDove, you say a “ton” of people in your Parish go for the blessing.

Explain to me why that “ton” of people, I presume they are all Catholics, are not receiving Holy Communion. Is there a problem in your Parish with respect to receiving the Sacraments?

If tons of people just go for the blessing I suppose that same ton of people also stay away from Sacramental Confession.

Emptying every pew and forming lines of people snubbing their nose at our Blessed Lord and just wanting an individual “blessing” is to what avail. The greater blessing would be to receive the Holy Eucharist.

As documented by Benedictgal, this practice is against a Church directive and your Pastor should call an end to it immediately.

 

[WhiteDove359]

one of the preist said to me in confession

if you are in a state of sin you may come up and cross your arms for a blessing by the priest. people do that for a number of reasons and it is perfectly acceptable".

 

[pro_multis]

I presume they are all Catholics, are not receiving Holy Communion. Is there a problem in your Parish with respect to receiving the Sacraments?

If tons of people just go for the blessing I suppose that same ton of people also stay away from Sacramental Confession.

Emptying every pew and forming lines of people snubbing their nose at our Blessed Lord and just wanting an individual “blessing” is to what avail. The greater blessing would be to receive the Holy Eucharist.

This is a broadly accepted oridnary form procedure and there is nothing wrong with it if the priest says it is ok. You can have your GRIM or any other set of written rules that you want, but if people do not folllow the rules on a broad scale, the rules become meaningless.

 

[benedictgal]

This is a broadly accepted oridnary form procedure and there is nothing wrong with it if the priest says it is ok. You can have your GRIM or any other set of written rules that you want, but if people do not folllow the rules on a broad scale, the rules become meaningless.

This is not a “broadly accepted ordinary” procedure. Please do not mislead people. The Holy See has already given five solid reasons why this should not be done. Furthermore, the observations quote already existing canonical and liturgical law.

 

[benedictgal]

one of the preist said to me in confession

if you are in a state of sin you may come up and cross your arms for a blessing by the priest. people do that for a number of reasons and it is perfectly acceptable".

With all due respect, he gave incorrect advice. This is, as I see it, misleading and it goes against what the Church has already stated. This is not his purview since the Holy See has already indicated that there are five reasons as to why this should not be done. Please refer to my original response in this thread.

 

[Phemie]

one of the preist said to me in confession

if you are in a state of sin you may come up and cross your arms for a blessing by the priest. people do that for a number of reasons and it is perfectly acceptable".

Doesn’t it seem odd that one would get blessed for being in a state of sin? Shouldn’t his advice have been to go to confession?

 

[WhiteDove359]

This is my Pastor: Fr. John Riccardo. He is one of the most sought out priest in the entire archdioseas of Detroit. That is a proven fact, not an opinion. The church had to post a bulliten asking people to stop calling the parish office and finding out which mass times Fr.John does because he is so popular. we have 3 other priest at my parish. He even has a job with them… olgcparish.net/ tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=236214bebdeea7a21e85 . contact him for clairifcation. Im sure its okay if he says its okay…

 

[benedictgal]

This is my Pastor: Fr. John Riccardo. He is one of the most sought out priest in the entire archdioseas of Detroit. That is a proven fact, not an opinion. The church had to post a bulliten asking people to stop calling the parish office and finding out which mass times Fr.John does because he is so popular. we have 3 other priest at my parish. He even has a job with them… olgcparish.net/ tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=236214bebdeea7a21e85 . contact him for clairifcation. Im sure its okay if he says its okay…

Your argument really makes no sense and it proves and justifies nothing. A priest’s popularity does not necessarilymean that he is correct. He cannot overrule and override what the Vatican has stated. We need to follow what the Holy See states and not our own personal idiosyncracies.

 

[Layman]

I think the attitude is that people feel they should get ‘something’ if they can’t have the thing being distributed. Communion is for Communion. There’s a blessing at the end of every Mass. A priest will happily bless you individually outside Mass.

I think some priests go along with it for the sake of peace and quiet. Can you imagine the disturbance caused by refusing a blessing to some mother or pious soul? At Communion, which should be a peaceful time?

It would be interesting to know who first started this. It’s not something an individual would do spontaneously; they’d need the priest’s co-operation.

 

[Phemie]

This is my Pastor: Fr. John Riccardo. He is one of the most sought out priest in the entire archdioseas of Detroit. That is a proven fact, not an opinion. The church had to post a bulliten asking people to stop calling the parish office and finding out which mass times Fr.John does because he is so popular. we have 3 other priest at my parish. He even has a job with them… olgcparish.net/ tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=236214bebdeea7a21e85 . contact him for clairifcation. Im sure its okay if he says its okay…

The most popular priest who comes to our parish is the one who told a family having their grandchild aborted that they had to do what was best for the family. He’s the one who passes the ciborium around like a candy dish for the altar servers and EMHCs to help themselves, he’s the one who wonders why a couple isn’t getting a vasectomy, he’s the one who buys everything he lays his eyes on for himself then uses the parish funds to pay for it. Sorry, popularity doesn’t mean one is right.

 

[mullenpm]

WhiteDove, I googled the name of your pastor, Fr. Riccardo, and I would be shocked if he were the priest who told you in confession that it was all right to interject oneself into the Communion line when one had no intention of receiving the Holy Eucharist. Fr. Riccardo appears to be an Orthodox and Conservative priest (gleaned from his homilies).

On the church web site home page they have no hesitation in calling themselves a “Roman Catholic Church”, so I am on their side there.

You have said that tons of your fellow parishioners do this procedure of crossing arms and approaching the communion line, and I wonder why.

One of the many reasons given for getting in the communion line with crossed arms is that you are not in a state of grace. Only a mortal sin can keep a Catholic from receiving the Holy Eucharist and your parish has ample opportunities to go to confession.

So why so many people not receiving the Holy Eucharist?

I will say your parish appears to be an excellent parish. I hope now that one of your priests - preferably Fr. Riccardo - will put a stop to this unnecessary procedure.:knight2::knight1:

 

[mullenpm]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the reasons that people give for getting into the Communion line with no intention of receiving the Holy Eucharist are:

1. They are not in the State of Grace;
2. They have not fasted for the necessary hour before receiving;
3. They are not Catholic.
4. Also mentioned was that perhaps their marriage was not valid in the eyes of the Church so they cannot receive the Sacrament.

Just to get this little mess straightened out with respect to the “tons” of people in WhiteDove’s parish - I talked with a person at that parish and it seems that the people being told they may approach in the Communion line are the Catechumens, not regular parishioners with so much sin they cannot receive the Holy Eucharist, as this “tons” of people would imply.

That would come under item 3 mentioned above.

In any event, I would hope that the pastor of that parish would put an end to this custom because it is against with wishes of the Church, as posted previously by Benedictgal; it will give the Catechumens an erroneous idea of an acceptable practice; and, everyone gets a blessing at the end of the Mass.