Crossing the line...?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DanteAlighieri
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DanteAlighieri

Guest
Demetrius suffers from a masturbation addiction. He has, by the grace of God, managed to bring that addiction somewhat under control; he no longer does it as a matter of routine, but every once in a while he dwells on the wrong thoughts – impure memories, let’s say – and finds himself overwhelmed by temptation.

One day, Demetrius finds himself in this situation, and nearly gives in. In fact, he more or less decides to do it, and even starts to. He prays for strength, and receives it – he stops (praise God!) before he can really get things rolling.

I would think that there’s no question that Demetrius has sinned, insofar as he entertained a disordered desire. My question is whether he has, in fact, crossed the line into mortal sin, given the facts that
  1. his heart’s desire was to stop,
  2. he prayed for help from heaven,
  3. he responded to that help when he got it,
  4. he hadn’t really gotten started, and
  5. he is still wrestling with addiction, even though it has abated a bit.
Discuss.

Peace,
Dante
 
As I understand it, the act itself has to happen for it to be grave matter. Thus though looking lustfully at a woman is called adultery by Our Lord, and it is the beginnings of adultery, and a serious sin, it is not a mortal sin unless you actually commit adultery.
 
In order for a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be present:

Serious matter (that which we would call objective mortal sin.),

Sufficient knowledge, and

Free consent.

You speak of this person having an addiction to masturbation. A person under the compulsion of addiction might not have sufficient free consent in regards to his addiction for the action to be mortally sinful in his case even if it had gone on to completion. He might benefit from frequent Reconciliation and taking counsel from a good priest in this matter.
 
Leopard said:
You speak of this person having an addiction to masturbation. A person under the compulsion of addiction might not have sufficient free consent in regards to his addiction for the action to be mortally sinful in his case even if it had gone on to completion.
Click to expand...
I don’t feel that “addiction” is a justification to classify a mortal sin as a venial sin, because even an addict gives free consent. I assume that the “free consent” qualification would excuse acts of manslaughter from being mortal sins, on the grounds that the person didn’t freely intend to kill someone. Or, maybe if someone was hypnotized, or otherwise delirious. That is my understanding of a lack of “free consent,” but I may be totally off base. Nevertheless, when I read 1 Corinthians 10:13, I have a hard time classifying “addiction” as a lack of free consent to excuse something from being a mortal sin. It seems just like an excuse(and I mean that in the most negative sense of the word.) In fact, I might even go as far as suggesting that one who says, “It’s not my fault. I’m addicted,” MIGHT be guilty of another mortal sin in that he/she MAY BE denying The Holy Spirit’s ability to change them from the inside. I’m not denying the reality of addictions, as I am no stranger to them, but I never shrugged off a mortal sin by saying, “It’s not my fault. I’m addicted.”
“But if we acknowledge our sins, He who is just can be trusted to forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrong.” (1 John 1:9, emphasis mine.) As I said, I am no stranger to addictions, but I can also testify that through The Power of God, and His grace that enables our striving to cooperate with that Power, no matter how deeply entrenched we may be into a sin, we can be PERMANENTLY delivered. I’m by no means saying that it is easy, instant, or automatic, or that there won’t be struggles and failures along the way to full delivery, but He can and will deliver us, if through His grace, and by His grace, we cooperate with His grace.
 
DanteAlighieri said:
Demetrius suffers from a masturbation addiction. He has, by the grace of God, managed to bring that addiction somewhat under control; he no longer does it as a matter of routine, but every once in a while he dwells on the wrong thoughts – impure memories, let’s say – and finds himself overwhelmed by temptation.

One day, Demetrius finds himself in this situation, and nearly gives in. In fact, he more or less decides to do it, and even starts to. He prays for strength, and receives it – he stops (praise God!) before he can really get things rolling.

I would think that there’s no question that Demetrius has sinned, insofar as he entertained a disordered desire. My question is whether he has, in fact, crossed the line into mortal sin, given the facts that
  1. his heart’s desire was to stop,
  2. he prayed for help from heaven,
  3. he responded to that help when he got it,
  4. he hadn’t really gotten started, and
  5. he is still wrestling with addiction, even though it has abated a bit.
Discuss.

Peace,
Dante
Click to expand...
With this type of struggle and his management of this situation, I’d say that he is indeed using the grace of God to overcome a very powerful temptation. The mere fact that he stops even while starting the act shows his desire to please God. Otherwise how much better would it be just to complete the act?? I can see no mortal sin here but then I am not in his heart. I was Demetrius for some time and it is not easy to conquer this addiction. I finally did and it still remains a struggle at times. What kind of God would see one fighting temptation tooth and nail and view this as rejection?? Certainly not the God I know…God Bless…teachccd:)
 
FrankLawrence said:
I don’t feel that “addiction” is a justification to classify a mortal sin as a venial sin, because even an addict gives free consent. I assume that the “free consent” qualification would excuse acts of manslaughter from being mortal sins, on the grounds that the person didn’t freely intend to kill someone. Or, maybe if someone was hypnotized, or otherwise delirious. That is my understanding of a lack of “free consent,” but I may be totally off base. Nevertheless, when I read 1 Corinthians 10:13, I have a hard time classifying “addiction” as a lack of free consent to excuse something from being a mortal sin. It seems just like an excuse(and I mean that in the most negative sense of the word.) In fact, I might even go as far as suggesting that one who says, “It’s not my fault. I’m addicted,” MIGHT be guilty of another mortal sin in that he/she MAY BE denying The Holy Spirit’s ability to change them from the inside. I’m not denying the reality of addictions, as I am no stranger to them, but I never shrugged off a mortal sin by saying, “It’s not my fault. I’m addicted.”
Click to expand...
That’s a good point, but we’re assuming Demetrius has such an addiction and has not (if ever) yet kicked it. True addictions can be mitigating circumstances for sin, mortal or otherwise.

Agreed, if taken to one extreme, you get the “twinkie defense”.
 
You never heard of the “Twinkie defense”?

I cut and pasted from Wikipedia:

In jurisprudence, Twinkie defense is a derogatory label for a criminal defendant’s claims that an unusual biological factor played a role in the cause or motives of the alleged crimes, and due to this biological factor they should not be held liable or the liability should be mitigated to a lesser offense due to diminished capacity. While biological factors influence behavior, the label of Twinkie defense implies that the factors cited are ones most people would view as not being sufficient to account for the crimes for which they are being prosecuted.

The phrase comes from the 1979 double assassination trial of Dan White in San Francisco when psychiatrist Martin Blinder, one of the defense therapists, spoke about White’s depression and how he “shunned” his regular habits and “indulged in Twinkies and Coke” two popular junk foods which worsened his condition

It might apply to our discussion here…😃
 
Oh, I was just quoting Dr. Peter Venkman(Bill Murray) in Ghostbusters. In the process, though, I learned something new. Thank you.
 
Personally, I dont see how masturbation can be an addiction.

Not saying I havent done it before, but an addiction?
 
Oh, yes. It certainly can be an addiction.

I know a LPC who deals with it as an addiction every now and then. It’s related to sex addiction, or a part of sex addiction, which is well documented.

Similar to, if not identical to a Porn addiction.
 
Lusting is continually engaging in the act, gazing, masturbating etc with full knowledge, impure thoughts aren’t lust if the person shuts them out. Thoughts will come and go, when they come and you pray for it to be gone or get your mind off it, it is not lusting.

Lusting is continuing to do it when you have a full realization.
 
This is key:
every once in a while he dwells on the wrong thoughts – impure memories, let’s say – and finds himself overwhelmed by temptation.
Click to expand...
That consent to dwell on impure thoughts alone could constitute mortal sin. Impure thoughts are grave matter, if you have full knowledge & are giving full consent that’s mortal. If it’s a thought that randomly comes into your head then you need to (as Fr Corapi says) say a Hail Mary & another & ANOTHER. Impure thoughts are incompatible with prayer.

It is also very important to avoid near occasions of sin. Avoid those things that tend to make the impure thoughts come.

I have struggled with sins of the flesh in my past. The only way I was able to overcome them was (of course by the grace of God,) to entirely avoid temptation. I stayed completely away from places that I knew would tempt me (there was a particular place that I would engage in the improper behavior & I had to STAY AWAY from that place) and things that might put bad thoughts in my head. If something bad popped into my head I would immediately try to “change the subject.”

I think “Demetrius” did an awesome thing when he accepted the grace to stop after he had started, but still he needs to learn to accept the grace to not start at all. Thinking of impure things (aside from being a sin in and of itself) for a person who is already struggling against impurities is like an alcoholic walking into a bar and sitting down at the counter.

My prayers will be with you in your struggle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top