Crucified vs Resurrected Eucharistic Presence

[JJO]

1.) At the words of consecration, the crucified Christ is physically present, but when we receive the Eucharist, we receive the risen and glorified Christ, not Jesus in his suffering on the cross. Is part 1.) correct so far?
2.) If 1.) is correct, at what point in the Mass is the crucified Christ no longer present but the risen Christ? i.e. at what point do we behold not Christ in physical suffering but as risen Lord?

Many thanks,
JJO

 

[Vico]

1.) At the words of consecration, the crucified Christ is physically present, but when we receive the Eucharist, we receive the risen and glorified Christ, not Jesus in his suffering on the cross. Is part 1.) correct so far?
2.) If 1.) is correct, at what point in the Mass is the crucified Christ no longer present but the risen Christ? i.e. at what point do we behold not Christ in physical suffering but as risen Lord?

Many thanks,
JJO

Christ has died and Christ is risen: both current realities.

There was only one sacrifice on the cross, which in the Mass (or Divine Liturgy) is made present in the memorial of Christ and his Body.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1353 … In the institution narrative, the power of the words and the action of Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit, make sacramentally present under the species of bread and wine Christ’s body and blood, his sacrifice offered on the cross once for all.

1363 … In the liturgical celebration of these events, they become in a certain way present and real. …

1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit …

 

[Tis_Bearself]

First, Vico is correct that the Resurrected Christ is present with us all through the Mass.

Second, if by your question you mean “at what point in the Mass do we specifically COMMEMORATE the resurrection of Christ”, that would be after Communion when we pray the post-Communion prayer.

 

[JJO]

So Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection are simultaneously present throughout the Mass (post consecration)?
Does that then mean that if there’s eucharistic adoration afterwards, Jesus as he is crucified is still there?

 

[JJO]

How is Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection simultaneously present if they are like different events.

 

[Beryllos]

How is Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection simultaneously present if they are like different events.

That is a good question, and I think the answer is in God’s eternal nature.

God is not restricted by time. God created time and has full dominion over it. Therefore, our human understanding might be that God exists at all times and places, and even beyond time and space. Not “did exist” or “will exist,” but simply, God is.

In the Eucharist, Christ is present in his fullness, which includes his presence at the Last Supper, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and more.

Lastly, here is a passage from the Catechism:

1374 The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as “the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend.” In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained. " “This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present.”

 

[Tis_Bearself]

How is Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection simultaneously present if they are like different events.

The Mass is a commemoration of Jesus’ passion, death and resurrection, not a re-crucifixion of Jesus.
It happens while Jesus is sitting in Heaven at the right hand of the Father.

Jimmy Akin has a pretty good article explaining this better than I can.

Are We Re-Crucifying Jesus in the Mass?| National Catholic Register

 

[Vico]

So Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection are simultaneously present throughout the Mass (post consecration)?
Does that then mean that if there’s eucharistic adoration afterwards, Jesus as he is crucified is still there?

The entire salvation history is eternally a part of Jesus Christ.

 

[Gorgias]

So Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection are simultaneously present throughout the Mass (post consecration)?
Does that then mean that if there’s eucharistic adoration afterwards, Jesus as he is crucified is still there?

No. “Jesus being crucified” isn’t present. “The sacrifice Jesus made to the Father” is, though – in fact, we re-present that sacrifice to the Father at each Mass.

One other point: Jesus isn’t present in physical mode, as you’ve asserted. He’s present in sacramental mode. Really present, of course, but sacramentally so, and not in the normal mode of human physical presence.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.”
Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.” (John 20:24-27)

Christ, as he is now, risen and glorified, is made present at Mass. ("… the bread and wine consecrated by the priest are changed into the body and blood of Christ enthroned gloriously in heaven…" (Pope Paul VI, Credo of the People of God, 24) However, as mentioned in the Scripture passage above, the risen Christ bears the wounds of his crucifixion in his glorified flesh.

 

[Vico]

JJO:

So Jesus being crucified and Jesus after resurrection are simultaneously present throughout the Mass (post consecration)?
Does that then mean that if there’s eucharistic adoration afterwards, Jesus as he is crucified is still there?

No. “Jesus being crucified” isn’t present. “The sacrifice Jesus made to the Father” is, though – in fact, we re-present that sacrifice to the Father at each Mass.

One other point: Jesus isn’t present in physical mode, as you’ve asserted. He’s present in sacramental mode. Really present, of course, but sacramentally so, and not in the normal mode of human physical presence.

Really corporeally (physically) present, yet not in the manner in which bodies are in a place.

Encyclical Mysterium Fedei, St. Pope Paul VI:

46. To avoid any misunderstanding of this type of presence, which goes beyond the laws of nature and constitutes the greatest miracle of its kind, (50) we have to listen with docility to the voice of the teaching and praying Church. Her voice, which constantly echoes the voice of Christ, assures us that the way in which Christ becomes present in this Sacrament is through the conversion of the whole substance of the bread into His body and of the whole substance of the wine into His blood, a unique and truly wonderful conversion that the Catholic Church fittingly and properly calls transubstantiation. (51) As a result of transubstantiation, the species of bread and wine undoubtedly take on a new signification and a new finality, for they are no longer ordinary bread and wine but instead a sign of something sacred and a sign of spiritual food; but they take on this new signification, this new finality, precisely because they contain a new “reality” which we can rightly call ontological. For what now lies beneath the aforementioned species is not what was there before, but something completely different; and not just in the estimation of Church belief but in reality, since once the substance or nature of the bread and wine has been changed into the body and blood of Christ, nothing remains of the bread and the wine except for the species — beneath which Christ is present whole and entire in His physical “reality,” corporeally present, although not in the manner in which bodies are in a place.

http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_03091965_mysterium.html

 

[Gorgias]

Really corporeally (physically) present

Sure. Christ is really present. In fact, the presence is of Christ’s body and blood. But, it’s the presence of his body and blood in sacramental mode. In other words, it’s truly His body (and not just the symbol of his body).

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Really corporeally (physically) present

Sure. Christ is really present. In fact, the presence is of Christ’s body and blood. But, it’s the presence of his body and blood in sacramental mode. In other words, it’s truly His body (and not just the symbol of his body).

That way of being present is two-fold in the eucharist rather than as the natural way, so St. Pope Paul VI wrote: “corporeally present, although not in the manner in which bodies are in a place.”

 

[xvs]

Jesus is “sacramentally” present in all the other sacraments, which means that he’s present through His efficacious grace. So, to say that Christ is only sacramentally present is incorrect, in my humble opinion. His Body is present in the Eucharist, but not in the other sacraments. It’s His resurrected, glorified body, living in a supernatural (hence, metaphysical) realm, so saying He is physically present might not be totally accurate, but I wouldn’t say it’s incorrect. In fact, I think it would be closer to the Lord’s intentions, for He does seek a union with us that would be better characterized as ‘physical’ since we’re still living in the physical realm. We know that the Son of God entered the realm of physical realities when he became flesh. We know that He resurrected from the dead with a glorious body. That’s the same body that for forty days lived between two realms, until He “ascended into Heaven” which I assume to mean that He stayed in the realm that lies beyond the physical, a metaphysical realm that exists in a dimension beyond time and space, where He sits “at the right hand of the Father”. Anyway, the Eucharistic union is like an installment, or like a mark on our physical bodies, that seems to be somehow related to the glorification and resurrection of our bodies at the end of times. “Whosoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life in me and I will rise him up on the last day”. Sorry, I’m going on a tangent here. So, just to bring it to a close, there’s for sure a bodily union, by which the superior being is the one being consumed, who despite being consumed it is the one that transforms the inferior being. When we eat regular bread, we assimilate it into our bodies, thus giving life to something that was lifeless . When we eat the bread of life, we are assimilated into the body of Christ, thus receiving from it the supernatural life. And I believe that, when this transformation happens during the sacrifice of the Mass, our very bodies are in Christ, assimilated to Christ’s Body being offered in sacrifice, thus making ours the infinite merits of the Passion of our Lord.

 

[Gorgias]

Jesus is “sacramentally” present in all the other sacraments, which means that he’s present through His efficacious grace. So, to say that Christ is only sacramentally present is incorrect, in my humble opinion.

The difference is that Jesus is really present – body, blood, soul, and divinity – in the Eucharist. That doesn’t mean that he’s not “only sacramentally present”, or more precisely, “present in a sacramental mode”.

thus making ours the infinite merits of the Passion of our Lord.

Be careful, there: you seem to be assuming that every recipient of Eucharist receives the same grace. We don’t – it depends on our ability (i.e., disposition). Moreover, to say that “ours [are] the infinite merits” makes it sound like you’re giving all recipients a plenary indulgence each time we receive!

 

[JJO]

Christ is present in his fullness, which includes his presence at the Last Supper, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and more.

Hi Beryllos,
If in the Eucharist, Christ is present “in his fullness, which includes his presence at the Last Supper, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and more.” , then what difference is there between the Eucharist at the moment of consecration and during Eucharistic adoration after Mass? Surely adoration is not also the Holy Sacrifice?

Thanks,
Julian

 

[JJO]

Hi Tis_Bearself,

I understand the Mass is not a re-crucifixion but the one and only crucificion being presented at the present moment. Is this correct?

Julian

 

[JJO]

Hi Vico,

Is it your understanding that the one and only crucifixion of Jesus is made corporeally present at the Mass?

 

[JJO]

No. “Jesus being crucified” isn’t present. “The sacrifice Jesus made to the Father” is, though

Hi Gorgias,

Can you explain this more? My understanding is that the presence of Christ as He was dying on the cross is brought to the present moment at the Mass without a re-crucifixion. Is this correct or incorrect?

 

[JJO]

in the Eucharist, but not in the other sacraments. It’s His resurrected, glorified body,

Hi XVS,

you say that “in the Eucharist, but not in the other sacraments. It’s His resurrected, glorified body,”

I am confused as to how the Holy Sacrifice can occur if the Eucharist is always Christ’s resurrected Body (by resurrected Body I understand the presence of Christ’s Body no longer experiencing the suffering of the cross).