Crucifix and the cross?

[CatholicKnight3]

A few days ago I was in the grocery store. I was standing in line and woman told he that I should take him down from the cross. Basically with an exclamation point. I wear a crucifix, and that is what she was referring to.

I have been in a discussion about this before with a Calvinist/Presbyterian that I know. He thinks the notion of the crucifix is a sin. He insists that it symbolizes and celebrates the crucified Christ and the cross celebrates the risen Christ.

It is unreal to me how people insist on knowing what is in a person’s heart of conviction. I asked him if he really thinks I am “celebrating” the crucified Christ. He told me that as long as I wear and display the crucified Christ that is essentially what I am doing. He said that is especially what I am doing now that I know the truth.

I explained to him if whether or not it says anywhere in the bible that we must proclaim the death of the Lord. I asked him if the victory over sin has anything to do with the blood of the Lamb. I asked him if what he is saying is true (which in a sense it is) then why focus on the cross at all? The cross was something made of wood that was constructed by the Romans. What is the point of staring at the cross if we are not remembering what Christ did on it?

I mean if the cross is there with out Christ and you kneel in front of the cross with out Christ, then is that a form of idolatry? If not, then why bend a knee in front of the man made object that does not have Christ?

Just another little divisive issue that is taught falsely in order to justify attacks on the Church of Rome. It seems to actually work though.

 

[Ladygem]

I’ve also heard that the reason why protestants focus more on the cross as opposed to the crucifix is because they prefer to focus on the Risen Lord. Why can’t we focus on both? Christ’s sacrifice was necessary for our sins to be forgiven, but His Resurrection meant that we would have eternal life with Him in Heaven. They are equally important parts of our Faith. I don’t think that the empty cross is idolatry though. It is a symbol for Christianity in general, and most Protestants use it to commemorate the Resurrection, which is perfectly valid. I do find it amusing when Calvinists and others who believe in Sola Scriptura are ignorant of the parts of the bible that support Catholic practices they don’t like. The Bible’s all they have, you would think they would read it once in a while.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

I’ve also heard that the reason why protestants focus more on the cross as opposed to the crucifix is because they prefer to focus on the Risen Lord. Why can’t we focus on both? Christ’s sacrifice was necessary for our sins to be forgiven, but His Resurrection meant that we would have eternal life with Him in Heaven. They are equally important parts of our Faith. I don’t think that the empty cross is idolatry though. It is a symbol for Christianity in general, and most Protestants use it to commemorate the Resurrection, which is perfectly valid. I do find it amusing when Calvinists and others who believe in Sola Scriptura are ignorant of the parts of the bible that support Catholic practices they don’t like. The Bible’s all they have, you would think they would read it once in a while.

Seems like another way to make a poignant attack on the church of Rome. My over all point is if we are to proclaim the RISEN Lord, then focus on the empty tomb. Not the place where he died.

It does not make sense. The symbol of the cross is not the RISEN Lord. It is the crucified Christ. To show the cross with the body of Christ, then the focus is not on the crucified Christ, but on the wooden cross.

I mean I just get amazed at how things are falsely taught, it gains traction and the false teaching becomes indoctrinated in the followers.

 

[Tomster]

Seems like another way to make a poignant attack on the church of Rome. My over all point is if we are to proclaim the RISEN Lord, then focus on the empty tomb. Not the place where he died.

It does not make sense. The symbol of the cross is not the RISEN Lord. It is the crucified Christ. To show the cross with the body of Christ, then the focus is not on the crucified Christ, but on the wooden cross.

I mean I just get amazed at how things are falsely taught, it gains traction and the false teaching becomes indoctrinated in the followers.

A simple and biblicly accurate response is: “We preach Christ and Him crucified as St. Paul has written.”.

 

[Bonnie]

“For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles…”
1 Corinthians 1:22-23 (RSVCE)

"For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:2 (RSVCE)

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

A simple and biblicly accurate response is: “We preach Christ and Him crucified as St. Paul has written.”.

Ditto:thumbsup:

John 3:14 “and just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up 15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life”…

John 12:32 "And when I am lifted up form the earth, I will draw everyone to myself. He said this indicating the kind of death he would die."

A believer should rejoice to see Jesus lifted up on a cross, because he draws us to Himself who is still healing, forgiving and raising the dead to new life.

Peace be with you

 

[GKC]

Seems like another way to make a poignant attack on the church of Rome. My over all point is if we are to proclaim the RISEN Lord, then focus on the empty tomb. Not the place where he died.

It does not make sense. The symbol of the cross is not the RISEN Lord. It is the crucified Christ. To show the cross with the body of Christ, then the focus is not on the crucified Christ, but on the wooden cross.

I mean I just get amazed at how things are falsely taught, it gains traction and the false teaching becomes indoctrinated in the followers.

Your first point is the one I use. Though the scripture references others posted are good too.

GKC

 

[Tomster]

Ditto:thumbsup:

John 3:14 “and just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up 15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life”…

John 12:32 "And when I am lifted up form the earth, I will draw everyone to myself. He said this indicating the kind of death he would die."

A believer should rejoice to see Jesus lifted up on a cross, because he draws us to Himself who is still healing, forgiving and raising the dead to new life.

Peace be with you

Et cum Spiritu tuo.

 

[Brandall]

A few days ago I was in the grocery store. I was standing in line and woman told he that I should take him down from the cross. Basically with an exclamation point. I wear a crucifix, and that is what she was referring to.

I have been in a discussion about this before with a Calvinist/Presbyterian that I know. He thinks the notion of the crucifix is a sin. He insists that it symbolizes and celebrates the crucified Christ and the cross celebrates the risen Christ.

It is unreal to me how people insist on knowing what is in a person’s heart of conviction. I asked him if he really thinks I am “celebrating” the crucified Christ. He told me that as long as I wear and display the crucified Christ that is essentially what I am doing. He said that is especially what I am doing now that I know the truth.

I explained to him if whether or not it says anywhere in the bible that we must proclaim the death of the Lord. I asked him if the victory over sin has anything to do with the blood of the Lamb. I asked him if what he is saying is true (which in a sense it is) then why focus on the cross at all? The cross was something made of wood that was constructed by the Romans. What is the point of staring at the cross if we are not remembering what Christ did on it?

I mean if the cross is there with out Christ and you kneel in front of the cross with out Christ, then is that a form of idolatry? If not, then why bend a knee in front of the man made object that does not have Christ?

Just another little divisive issue that is taught falsely in order to justify attacks on the Church of Rome. It seems to actually work though.

I’m lost as to how the barb has any power. I’ve googled it before, “Why don’t catholics take Jesus from the cross”, and similar queries and I’ve never found any legitimate point, or illegitimate, to be made from it. All I can find are references to a belief that Catholics celebrate the death rather than the resurrection.

It’s a simple misunderstanding from those that have no knowledge of the Catholic Church. Forgive them this mistake. More than likely they are repeating a misunderstanding they have heard.

For what it’s worth, there are more hurtful misunderstandings out there and there are absolutely known false accusations. Perhaps it’s better to be more concerned with these and use them as a teaching moment for the church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

CatholicKnight3;10716181]Seems like another way to make a poignant attack on the church of Rome. My over all point is if we are to proclaim the RISEN Lord, then focus on the empty tomb. Not the place where he died.

All of salvation points to the crucifix. This is the alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of our Catholic faith. Proclaiming the gospel Christ Crucified is the stumbling block to pride of men, religions, and the wisdom of the world which rejects it.

We have to obey God rather than men here and proclaim Him Christ crucified in our art, when we cross ourselves, when the sacraments are adminstered and in daily living, this is what set’s us apart from all others.

The Crucifix by itself reveals the whole story of redemption, the fulfillment of the law and the prophets all come together in this one scene the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

We cannot neglect the price that was paid for our redemption and salvation. If we were to remove all the crucifixes in the world, how will our future children to be born ever learn of the story of redemption, without seeing Him lifted up and be healed?

It does not make sense. The symbol of the cross is not the RISEN Lord. It is the crucified Christ. To show the cross with the body of Christ, then the focus is not on the crucified Christ, but on the wooden cross.

The Crucifix is not a symbol, but a picture of a true and real event that took place in time, for all men who are drawn to Him who is lifted up, for them.

We can never have a resurrection, without the crucifix, because the crucifix reveals the resurrection took place.

I mean I just get amazed at how things are falsely taught, it gains traction and the false teaching becomes indoctrinated in the followers.

The Crucifix points to the ascension see CCC 662…

For a Catholic the Crucifix tells the whole story including the resurrection and ascension into heaven. It never negates the resurrection but begins the path to the resurrection and ascension into heaven for all ages.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Brandall;10716513]I’m lost as to how the barb has any power. I’ve googled it before, “Why don’t catholics take Jesus from the cross”, and similar queries and I’ve never found any legitimate point, or illegitimate, to be made from it. All I can find are references to a belief that Catholics celebrate the death rather than the resurrection.

“We celebrate your death and resurrection Lord until you come again for your Church”. This revealed in every celebration of the Mass. The crucifix is the Mass celebration in minature.

We look to Him who is lifted up and see the “barb” and stripes on His back that heals us.

Your reference is falsehood, we have never celebrated the death of our Lord rather than the resurrection. You can’t have the resurrection if the reality of the death is never known.

We can’t take Jesus Christ’s work from the cross. Jesus commanded Nicodemus that He has to be lifted up in order to bring the believer to eternal life.

There are many miracles throughout history attached to the crucifix and crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you

 

[R_C]

“For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles…”
1 Corinthians 1:22-23 (RSVCE)

"For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:2 (RSVCE)

Amen